World Cup: National Team threads

[YNWA14]

So I’ll ask again, like I said to @YNWA14. If you are saying I’m wrong, send me a PM, provide your info and source. I’ll do the same, and we can sort this out. If you think you are just going to try to play “internet debate winner” here for HF credibility and aren’t going to produce anything of substance after you throw out accusations against me, there’s no chance I’m giving up what my source is, and I’m certainly not going to post it publicly on here.

And of course, we all know you’ll clam up or throw out more excuses. You are here to arrogantly belittle the USA. You’ve made as much clear, as did @YNWA14 who clammed up when I asked him to produce his basis for saying I’m wrong.

If you want to refuse to believe something that’s no big secret, that’s your issue. I thought I was being nice to inform you of what the truth is. I’m under no obligation to tell you what I’ve heard. But it’s your issue if you want to refuse to believe it because you are too arrogant to believe someone would reject your youth teams for the US teams.

I 'clammed up' after providing two sources? One of which was an interview done by Dest literally a day ago? Get over yourself. You don't have an inside track on whether or not Dest was called up for the Netherlands or not, and he wouldn't turn them down for the US when he himself only recently discovered the country existed (hyperbole, and not to mention the obvious difference in quality).

If you have 'proof' of something the honus is on you, not others who can see what the federations and player have already said plainly. But I get that you like to play some kind of victim after instigating this ridiculous argument in the first place with your nonsensical take on Dest's international situation.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I 'clammed up' after providing two sources? One of which was an interview done by Dest literally a day ago? Get over yourself. You don't have an inside track on whether or not Dest was called up for the Netherlands or not, and he wouldn't turn them down for the US when he himself only recently discovered the country existed (hyperbole, and not to mention the obvious difference in quality).

If you have 'proof' of something the honus is on you, not others who can see what the federations and player have already said plainly. But I get that you like to play some kind of victim after instigating this ridiculous argument in the first place with your nonsensical take on Dest's international situation.

Look, you don’t know anything about me. You are a stranger on the internet. I wouldn’t begin to try to make assumptions about you outside of what you post on here. I don’t know you. How would you know what I know?

And to expose your attempt to cite info, my Dutch isn’t great, but I believe the context you forgot to explain was that the quote you are referencing is discussing prior to 2016 where he claims he wasn’t in the Dutch team, so he accepted a call up to the USA. First of all, that’s bogus. He attended a Dutch U-15 camp. And second of all, what does that have to do with this discussion? I think I’ve been pretty clear that in the window between his first cap with the USA at youth level and now he’s rejected multiple youth caps from the Dutch federation.

So no, you don’t get to post something completely unrelated and misleading (at best) and then tell me there’s any onus on me.

 

[YNWA14]

And to expose your attempt to cite info, my Dutch isn’t great, but I believe the context you forgot to explain was that the quote you are referencing is discussing prior to 2016 where he claims he wasn’t in the Dutch team, so he accepted a call up to the USA. First of all, that’s bogus. He attended a Dutch U-15 camp. And second of all, what does that have to do with this discussion? I think I’ve been pretty clear that in the window between his first cap with the USA at youth level and now he’s rejected multiple youth caps from the Dutch federation.

Because he hasn't rejected the Dutch federation (at least not prior to this year where he turned down a call up to the youth team and the US senior team at the same time to take more time on his decision), and this interview is from yesterday and mentions nothing about 'prior to 2016'. I quoted from the article what I did because it was relevant to the discussion. The interviewer asked if he was resentful because the Netherlands never called him up and he said 'maybe' (he specifically says he wasn't contacted by the Dutch team), he mentioned that until a few years ago he could barely speak English and had never thought of his American roots, but now he's starting to feel more American, though there's absolutely no indication in this interview that he identifies more toward the US.

So no, you don’t get to post something completely unrelated and misleading (at best) and then tell me there’s any onus on me.

I guess if you want to live in your echo chamber and throw out anything brought to the table as 'unrelated' or 'misleading' (especially words directly from the sources refuting what you're peddling) and then claim that those you are 'debating' with are 'clamming up' because you don't like what's being said, that's fine, but you can continue that conversation with yourself and believe what you want. Dest was developed by the US, the US is becoming a footy powerhouse and top nations are lining up to poach their players because of it. This much is obvious.

 

[Ajacied]

Dest never played for any Oranje youth teams. It wasn't until 2016 until the US noticed his dual dual citizenship and scouted/followed him hardcore ever since. At the time Dest only thought about Ajax and Oranje, but Oranje never approached him. He decided to accept the invitations for the USA. "I started to think.. hey, I am also an American. I think their passport is one of the best in the world. Why not." Now that Dest is of Oranje quality, Oranje would like him on board and rightfully so.

If there's any poaching here, it's the USA looking for Europeans with American roots because they simply lack a quality program. Oranje poaching any country is just a hilarious claim. You've never seen the KNVB trying to poach Asensio away from Spain.

It's comical how this discussion is still going on.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Dest attended an Oranje U15 camp in January of 2015, and was on a standby list in November of 2014.

He’s listed on the Oranje website November 2014:Selectie Onder 15 oefenduels België | OnsOranje

I can’t find the January 2015 one listed on the website, but I also don’t speak the language so I might’ve skipped over it, federations don’t list every camp at lower age groups and this is a widely accepted idea in US Soccer circles.

I’ve now wasted 20 minutes wading through a U15 list from nearly 5 years ago in a language I don’t understand because a bunch refuse to accept the truth on a subject they don’t have sufficient knowledge on. This is a waste of my time.

As for this idea that he has never been contacted by the Dutch FA after it’s clear above that he has, maybe the kid isn’t telling the truth in interviews or was misquoted. I don’t know nor care.

If the Dutch fans want to throw accusations my way and claim I said things I never said because of their apparent over sensitivity after I was nice enough to share info I’ve been told by a good source that would have much more of a clue than any of us, that’s your problem. I don’t know any of you nor feel I need to go above and beyond to make you believe me.

I’ll bow out of this discussion here. I’ve spent way too much time on this. I shouldn’t have even bothered to begin with. I’ll know in the future not to.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Missed the first half apparently rojo was trash and he’s subbed off in then 2nd for Acuna lol

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Nice to see the best keeper in the world starting for Germany. That Munich guy can go suck it... he’s living in the past.

Anyway post Rojo Argentina won 2-0. So that should be the death to his NT career it’s been said before but has to be it

 

[Ajacied]

Talking about poaching, the Moroccan football federation wanted to pay for Mohamed Ihattaren's father and they were also present at his funeral. This after they already handed out different 'bonuses' to his family just because 'they care'. This has been going on for a while now. Pretty sickening.

 

[HajdukSplit]

I guess the AFC uses a pre-determined set of fixtures because today it seemed all the heavyweights faced minnows at home and here were some of the results

China-Guam 7:0
Australia-Nepal 5:0
Iran-Cambodia 14:0
Japan-Mongolia 6:0
South Korea-Sri Lanka 8:0

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Talking about poaching, the Moroccan football federation wanted to pay for Mohamed Ihattaren's father and they were also present at his funeral. This after they already handed out different 'bonuses' to his family just because 'they care'. This has been going on for a while now. Pretty sickening.

None issue his parents are Moroccan

 

[Ajacied]

None issue his parents are Moroccan

Of course, but the kid is 17 and the Moroccan federation have been breathing in his neck for a while now. They handle this situation very aggressively and now try to show goodwill during his dad's funeral. Let the kid breath and make the decision on his own. I think Koemand and the KNVB have approached him much more honest and mellow, but they are of course less desperate.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Of course, but the kid is 17 and the Moroccan federation have been breathing in his neck for a while now. They handle this situation very aggressively and now try to show goodwill during his dad's funeral. Let the kid breath and make the decision on his own. I think Koemand and the KNVB have approached him much more honest and mellow, but they are of course less desperate.

Oh historically federations have been vulture regardless of where they from. I think you were implying Mohammad must play for the Dutch because he played his football there.

I mean look at how Munir was handled by Spain that is extremely aggresive. and were seeing it again with Fati

 

[Ajacied]

Oh historically federations have been vulture regardless of where they from. I think you were implying Mohammad must play for the Dutch because he played his football there.

I do as well. I am of the opinion that you should play for the country that educated you. He learned the Dutch school through PSV and Oranje. If he wants to play for Morocco he should've joined their youth program.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I do as well. I am of the opinion that you should play for the country that educated you. He learned the Dutch school through PSV and Oranje. If he wants to play for Morocco he should've joined their youth program.

So, should a student only work in the country he was educated in? Should players only play in teams that drafted them? Should they only play in the clubs where they developed in their academy? The answer should be a big fat no to all of these questions.

 

[Ajacied]

Those are totally different questions.

When you are born in the Netherlands, raised in the Netherlands, practiced your football in the Netherlands and played for all of their youth teams, it's only a logical step to come out for their A-squad. Choosing the country of your parents isn't something I applaud, though do respect of course.

 

[cgf]

I do as well. I am of the opinion that you should play for the country that educated you. He learned the Dutch school through PSV and Oranje. If he wants to play for Morocco he should've joined their youth program.

No consideration for personal identity & which culture the player actually feels more connected to? Should a dutch kid; whose parents move to germany -- where he gets made fun of for his dutch-ness by his german classmates mercilessly -- before he hits puberty; be forced to play for us just because of where the academy he honed his talent at was located?

 

[YNWA14]

So, should a student only work in the country he was educated in? Should players only play in teams that drafted them? Should they only play in the clubs where they developed in their academy? The answer should be a big fat no to all of these questions.

Surely these examples are not analogous to this situation. Although I do think there should be a certain measure of loyalty toward institutions that invest in you (I don't agree with the student thing since, in most cases, you pay for your own education and not the other way around).

 

[maclean]

Iran-Cambodia 14:0

Nice win for the first game in decades that women have been allowed to attend!

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think there have been some poor examples thrown around, but you should simply play for the country that you most identify with. With Dest, I'm sure that's the Netherlands, it's where he's always lived.

This situation is sort of comparable to Giuseppe Rossi IMO. Rossi identifies as American first, but wanted to be on Italy for sporting reasons. Rossi should have been on USMNT.

 

[Pouchkine]

If the players have the choice they will 99% of the time choose the best and most glamorous national team.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If the players have the choice they will 99% of the time choose the best and most glamorous national team.

Sometimes it just comes down to opportunity. Hull is an example of that in hockey. Basically the same thing for Dest.

 

[Pouchkine]

Given the opportunity... If the guy is good enough and given the call up he will choose the best team, it's like this today for almost every player.

If Ziyech had been called up by Holland at 20-21 year old he would be playing for Holland today.

 

[maclean]

I wouldn't underestimate the draw of playing for your heritage country if you have a strong base in that community. You have the opportunity to be something of a hero for people which aside from the ego boost can actually do a lot for inspiring young people and improving the state of football in that country. Plus getting the bigshot treatment and maybe getting your extended family some cushy jobs. Which may come across as tongue-in-cheek, but helping out extended family is truly something of value that people take into account.

 

[Pouchkine]

I wouldn't underestimate the draw of playing for your heritage country if you have a strong base in that community. You have the opportunity to be something of a hero for people which aside from the ego boost can actually do a lot for inspiring young people and improving the state of football in that country. Plus getting the bigshot treatment and maybe getting your extended family some cushy jobs. Which may come across as tongue-in-cheek, but helping out extended family is truly something of value that people take into account.

It should be like this more often but it almost never happens.

Now if the guy isn't good enough and he finally goes for his country of heritage he will say those things for sure...

 

[Say Hey Kid]

This must be the smallest day in US sports history when Twellman's epic takedown of U.S. soccer is the considered the biggest event on this day in US sports history.