World Cup: National Team threads

[Cassano]

Israel Canceled the FIFA Palestine Cup for No Apparent Reason

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Israel Canceled the FIFA Palestine Cup for No Apparent Reason

There is a reason tho

 

[Cassano]

There is a reason tho

If I speak I am in big trouble.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Dest declined a permanent cap-tying cap for the USA. The writing is on the wall. He’s going to play for the Netherlands.

This is what happens when you start producing better players. Other countries try to poach them. Mexico and Netherlands senior National Teams, assuming Dest switches, will have poached players from the USA in a two year span.

 

[YNWA14]

Dest declined a permanent cap-tying cap for the USA. The writing is on the wall. He’s going to play for the Netherlands.

This is what happens when you start producing better players. Other countries try to poach them. Mexico and Netherlands senior National Teams, assuming Dest switches, will have poached players from the USA in a two year span.

How would this be the Netherlands poaching Dest exactly? Not really sure they can 'poach' a player who was born, raised and trained in the Netherlands and had never been to the US until he was called up by them. Certainly interesting to claim they're producing better players and using him as an example.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How would this be the Netherlands poaching Dest exactly? Not really sure they can 'poach' a player who was born, raised and trained in the Netherlands and had never been to the US until he was called up by them.

I’m talking about our National Team. He’s played with our program for years, and undoubtedly improved playing in big international youth tournaments. In fact, I’ve seen this improvement. He’s much more assertive offensively than he was 2-3 years ago.

 

[YNWA14]

I’m talking about our National Team. He’s played with our program for years, and undoubtedly improved playing in big international youth tournaments. In fact, I’ve seen this improvement. He’s much more assertive offensively than he was 2-3 years ago.

Undoubtedly it's the youth tournaments that have caused his improvement and not the day to day coaching he's receiving at the vaunted Ajax academy; he's played what...10 games with the US? I'm well aware you're talking about the NT but the US can hardly claim to have developed Dest just because they 'poached' him from the Netherlands because of an eligibility technicality when he wasn't yet good enough for the Netherlands teams.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Undoubtedly it's the youth tournaments that have caused his improvement and not the day to day coaching he's receiving at the vaunted Ajax academy; he's played what...10 games with the US? I'm well aware you're talking about the NT but the US can hardly claim to have developed Dest just because they 'poached' him from the Netherlands because of an eligibility technicality when he wasn't yet good enough for the Netherlands teams.

It can be both. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

There’s no eligibility technicality. His father is American. His mother is Dutch. He’s eligible to play for the USA, unless you want to rewrite the rules for US citizenship.

 

[YNWA14]

It can be both. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

It could, in theory, be both but in all likelihood Dest is the player he is because he was developed in the Netherlands and it's highly unlikely that there was much learned at these youth camps that wasn't being better taught in the academy he was coming through and spent the vast majority of his time in football at. In no way is Dest some kind of example of the US developing better players and causing other countries to try and poach them.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It could, in theory, be both but in all likelihood Dest is the player he is because he was developed in the Netherlands and it's highly unlikely that there was much learned at these youth camps that wasn't being better taught in the academy he was coming through and spent the vast majority of his time in football at. In no way is Dest some kind of example of the US developing better players and causing other countries to try and poach them.

If it’s only the Ajax academy, why did his standing take big leaps after playing in two big FIFA youth events but not during the course of the season at Ajax? I’ve been following his career for about three years.

 

[Ajacied]

If it’s only the Ajax academy, why did his standing take big leaps after playing in two big FIFA youth events but not during the course of the season at Ajax? I’ve been following his career for about three years.

What? Dest played 12 freaking games for the USA youth squad. I hope you're not trying to convince anyone the US actually developed Dest into the player he is today. He's been taking massive strides since joining the A-squad.

That said, he hasn't leaned one way or the other. I really don't care. He's a good kid who plays a position which isn't occupied very thickly in Oranje, but he's not a potential star. I worry more about Ihattaren.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What? Dest played 12 freaking games for the USA youth squad. I hope you're not trying to convince anyone the US actually developed Dest into the player he is today. He's been taking massive strides since joining the A-squad.

That said, he hasn't leaned one way or the other. I really don't care. He's a good kid who plays a position which isn't occupied very thickly in Oranje, but he's not a potential star. I worry more about Ihattaren.

He's played way more than that. I don't know where you got that number from, but I can assure you it's more than that. He's been playing in US youth teams for three years, and has consistently been getting caps throughout those three years, including two FIFA tournaments and one CONCACAF qualifying tournament. He's also been in camps for nonofficial games, and has now played two official games for the Senior National Team.

I didn't say that he didn't gain a lot from his weekly play at Ajax, but it would be foolish to act like he didn't gain significantly from being a regular youth international who has played in the major big youth international tournaments. In my opinion, it's pretty clear his game has seen substantial development during these tournaments, and he's parlayed that into success at the club level. He also started getting interest from Netherlands youth national teams shortly following success at the U-17 World Cup from what I heard.

If you want me to go further into depth, I can. He was a back up going into the U-17 World Cup, and it was completely deserved. I had seen him play compared to the other fullbacks a number of times, and I wasn't even convinced he deserved to be on the roster, at all. During the tournament, the starting RB got injured, the starting LB wasn't convincing, and the team had injuries and suspensions at CB and CM, which forced him into a regular starting role towards the end of the tournament. He was excellent, and completely helped his standing. I thought he went from an afterthought who looked like he was only on the books of Ajax to make up the numbers to a player who looked like he had decent potential, and could maybe be a good professional player at a high level. I remember at that time he wasn't even an every game starter at Ajax.

Then he had a great CONCACAF U-20 Qualifying tournament where he completely shut down and neutralized Diego Lainez, who I believe nearly signed for Ajax or PSV. One of the big Dutch teams. Lainez was a senior international at the time. Dest was playing every week in the Ajax U-19's and Jong Ajax. Shutting down Lainez was probably the best game he'd ever played as an amateur player, considering the circumstances. Then he earned very good reviews for his play at the U-20 WC. I don't believe he had even been on the first team radar at Ajax going into that tournament. I think you told me as much at the time, but immediately after he's now training with the first team in preseason and eventually grabs a starting spot.

To act like he didn't benefit significantly from his experience as a consistent youth international with the USA for three years would be foolish. Of course, he has. Some of his best performances as a footballer, biggest games, toughest players he's matched up against have been in a US shirt. And I suspect the two biggest games he's played in were the two friendlies for the USMNT, against Uruguay and Mexico. Mexico is a huge rivalry match. Those games are very heated, and always tense.

In the end, I'm not that concerned either way. I think Dest is a good player, and he has good potential, but I've never been as high on his game as some other US fans. I don't like his defensive game, and think he's very soft, avoiding physical contact way too often, for a player who isn't that short in stature. He could of course prove me wrong and he's certainly at least good enough right now to play for the USMNT, but I'm not exactly convinced we'd be losing a future world class star. There are dual-national players that I think would be bigger losses to our program than Dest. I hope he chooses the USA, but I suspect he'll play for the Netherlands.

 

[PanniniClaus]

I can't say too much on this topic. Still harbor ill will towards the Netherlands and Jon DeGuzman for the Dutch approaching him and him accepting. He was as fringe as a player could get for the Dutch but would have been a massive piece for Canada. I grew up watching Dutch teams that did not have to think about dual nationals....they didn't need them...overflowing with quality at all positions.

I won't cry for the US.. Given the melting pot they are they should have a much better national team than they do now. I guess what i'm saying here is...who cares? Dest won't be deciding the fate of either team.

 

[robertmac43]

Alzate invited to Columbia, might hold off to wait on England.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Southgate calls up Tomori, much to my chagrin.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Southgate calls up Tomori, much to my chagrin.

And Abraham. They deserve it, good for them. Especially for Tomori to get this type of respect this quickly.

 

[YNWA14]

Southgate calls up Tomori, much to my chagrin.

Too bad he would have been a godsend for the CMNT.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Forgot about the Canada angle, the media was playing up the Nigeria angle lately. I like when players just play for the country that they actually identify with and not one for sporting reasons.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Southgate calls up Tomori, much to my chagrin.

Tough news but was bound to happen with the mess that is the Chelsea central defense.

 

[Vinny]

Dest declined a permanent cap-tying cap for the USA. The writing is on the wall. He’s going to play for the Netherlands.

This is what happens when you start producing better players. Other countries try to poach them. Mexico and Netherlands senior National Teams, assuming Dest switches, will have poached players from the USA in a two year span.

Hahahahaha, the only thing not Dutch about the boy is his American father, he is a product from the Netherlands, he learned everything in the Dutch football school. Dunno what you are thinking lol. Anyway he is an ok player nothing to be excited about. His choice will depend on where he believes he will have a chance to play the most games, chicken way out would be the USA team. We will see.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Hahahahaha, the only thing not Dutch about the boy is his American father, he is a product from the Netherlands, he learned everything in the Dutch football school. Dunno what you are thinking lol. Anyway he is an ok player nothing to be excited about. His choice will depend on where he believes he will have a chance to play the most games, chicken way out would be the USA team. We will see.

Right, it's not like we'd be losing out on someone we developed. It's not that he's not American, but I bet he'd identify as Dutch first. He should choose Netherlands if he does feel that way. I hate when we cheapen playing for your national team.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hahahahaha, the only thing not Dutch about the boy is his American father, he is a product from the Netherlands, he learned everything in the Dutch football school. Dunno what you are thinking lol. Anyway he is an ok player nothing to be excited about. His choice will depend on where he believes he will have a chance to play the most games, chicken way out would be the USA team. We will see.

What am I missing? He’s played for years for the USA, and now Netherlands wants to poach him.

I like how you’ve set up a situation where your side can’t lose. If he chooses the USA, it’s a chicken way out.

I have no issue with what he chooses. It’s his choice. Who am I to tell him what to do? I don’t have to deal with the situation for the length of his career, he does. Fans should accept his decision, either way. You seem to not want to do so, if he prefers another National Team. You seem to be advocating to castigate him if he doesn’t choose your team.

 

[Cassano]

Italy looking into calling up Martinelli, a Brazillian

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

What am I missing? He’s played for years for the USA, and now Netherlands wants to poach him.

I like how you’ve set up a situation where your side can’t lose. If he chooses the USA, it’s a chicken way out.

I have no issue with what he chooses. It’s his choice. Who am I to tell him what to do? I don’t have to deal with the situation for the length of his career, he does. Fans should accept his decision, either way. You seem to not want to do so, if he prefers another National Team. You seem to be advocating to castigate him if he doesn’t choose your team.

I don't know in which universe you live, but the U.S. is basically scouring Europe for kids with an American link of any sort to convince them to play for national teams of a country they have barely any relationship with. And America has been doing this for many decades. The idea usually being that you'll get the kids who won't be good enough to make the national team of the European country. That's an attempt at poaching talent. Situations like this where the kid has a change of heart again isn't a matter of that country poaching your talent, that's an inbuilt risk of this U.S. strategy of trying to poach talent.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't know in which universe you live, but the U.S. is basically scouring Europe for kids with an American link of any sort to convince them to play for national teams of a country they have barely any relationship with. And America has been doing this for many decades. The idea usually being that you'll get the kids who won't be good enough to make the national team of the European country. That's an attempt at poaching talent. Situations like this where the kid has a change of heart again isn't a matter of that country poaching your talent, that's an inbuilt risk of this U.S. strategy of trying to poach talent.

This is a huge exaggeration and demonstrates ignorance. Fans of the top countries always claim when these players choose to play for other countries that they weren't good enough to play for them. It's often times not true, and usually comes from a sense of entitlement that certain countries deserve players to play for them, as if it's not a personal choice for the player where they want to play.

A player like Dest has played his whole footballing career for US youth teams, and has turned down playing for Netherlands multiple times in the past. Netherlands is now trying to offer him a better deal. Maybe he changes his mind. Let these players make these decisions. We have no clue what their life dynamics are.

And you should get used to this type of thing happening for all types of National Teams. Countries like Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Cameroon, Senegal all have players born in France in their teams, and many of them are good enough to have played for France, but preferred to play for those countries. Many German born players who are good enough to play for Germany are now playing for Turkey, and that's because they prefer to play for those countries.

Mexico is holding identification camps for the best youth players with Mexican heritage in the United States. This is the way the international game is. And I have no issue with it. Let these players play where they want, if they are eligible. It's their life, not ours.