World Cup: National Team threads

[Ivan13]

The Danish player union forbid their members to join the team. No pro player is allowed to take part in the team.

 

[MaxV]

This isn’t an unprecedented case. It happened in 1994 to Russian NT, where the entire team boycotted the tournament because they wanted a new coach and to represent their own shoe deals (some were convinced to go later). Too bad, that was a LOADED team with the talent to make some noise.

 

[Corto]

Too bad, that was a LOADED team with the talent to make some noise.

I'm gonna disagree with that. They were bang average, and other than Karpin I can't think of a player that made any sort of successful international career, most of them stayed in Russia, and the ones who moved abroad ended up playing for very mediocre clubs.

Hell, it featured the Hajduk Split legend Radchenko.

 

[QuietContrarian]

Why did they decide to go so deep into the talent pool?

If the starters don’t want to play, go with the second rate guys.

Or are those guys supporting the boycott?

I find it difficult to believe that they can’t scrape up enough pros willing to go, even if mediocre.

The players organization sent out text messages, telling all pro players to be supportive of their cause.

A good few players had said yes, but then changed their mind after.

So the PO kind of hijacked the whole thing, being the spoiled assholes they are.

Btw, the ever so humble Eriksen, has shown that he is not very humble. I dont like him anymore..

Most of the country supports DBU. and think the players are being destructive to Danish depth football.

 

[maclean]

Most of the country supports DBU. and think the players are being destructive to Danish depth football.

What exactly is the at the core of the dispute?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The core problem really is the somewhat confusing legal and commercial situation regarding personal sponsors for players in a team sport. If you're a star like say Christian Eriksen, you have your own deals, then there's the deals Spurs have and then finally there's the deals the Danish FA have.

The degree to which he can be asked to participate in sponsor activities for Spurs and the Danish FA, if those activities are in direct conflict with the personal sponsors, is disputed. Just like his ability to represent his personal sponsors while on duty with Spurs or Denmark in the same scenario. Obviously in this dispute it's about the national team, but there have been similar conflicts between clubs and players (one may recall the controversy when Mario Götze showed up wearing a Nike sweater to his introduction at Bayern).

All of this is normally handled in contracts between the players, the clubs and the FA. The Danish contract needs to be renewed and they haven't been able to do it. Based on what I could find it seems that the DBU wants the players to be more available as individuals for the sponsors of the DBU in order to raise more money for Danish football grassroots development, while the national team players are against that.

It seems like the national team players say that the DBU will make it impossible for them to have personal deals, but the DBU denies that. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle..if Eriksen shows up advertising for a supermarket in his DBU capacity then other supermarket chains will probably not want to have a personal deal with him.

 

[QuietContrarian]

What exactly is the at the core of the dispute?

It is a little confusing, but here is the gist of it:

First you need to know, that DBU had a similar conflict with the womens team a while back, that ended in a strike from the players, and now a subsequent 2nd place in their group because of deducted pts. So the players lost here.

Because of that strike DBU were fined by UEFA, and are now on their watch list - This means, that if the games against Slovakia and Wales were not to be played, as the players for selfish reason want, DBU would be 2nd time offenders, and would potentially be banned from the 2020 Euro's. - This just goes to show that the players are thinking only about themselves, they KNOW how much this means to the people.

The main point of the dispute is commercial rights, then the food, hotels and transport the players get during games, and then the money.

The players want full control of their commercial rights, this means they also want to be able to do personal deals during WC and EC, and just NT brakes.

An example: The Danish NT is sponsored by a firm called Oddset ( They do sports betting), Simon Kjaer is sponsored by Nordic Bet, another betting firm. Up to and during the WC, Simon Kjaer did sponsorships for Nordic Bet in what resembled a NT Kit, this made Oddset a bit angry, as they are in the same business, and he represnted Denmark. This gives DBU trouble, and take away income they get from sponsors, which in turn goes to grassroots football in Denmark, a place the Danish stars were once aswell.

In short, they want to be able to decline commercial gigs for DBU and still play games.
The Team is sponsored by HUMMEL and also wear HUMMEL, a Danish clothing brand.

But a Player like Eriksen is sponsored by NIKE, and wants nothing to do with Hummel, so he declined doing photo ops and such with Hummel.

They think signing autographs and such, is enough. All DBU asks, is for the players to be ready to do the commercial work if they choose to represent the NT - As DBU says, playing for your country is not a job, it is a privilege, a privilege you can turn down if you do not wish to participate.

Old players from Denmark who were once stars are also critisizing the players for their greedy attitude.

All have said that playing for the NT is not about personal gain, but pride.

The players say that they use their bodies in these games, and that they only have a short time span to make their money - People say that sure that is correct, but near all ex players get jobs after their careers end, and most players make more in a week than most do in a year. And they make more during their "short" careers, than most do in a lifetime, so this is about greed, about players fearing they will not have gathered enough personal income, to sustain their luxury lifestyle of high end cars, clothing, 5 star hotels and private jets, long into retirement - and has nothing to do with being able to support themselves.

Then there is the diet, transport and housing during games - Players complained that at some games, the food wasn't good enough bla bla bla. Ex players from the 80s and 90s said, try playing when we played. We had awful transport and stayed in shit hotels.

DBU says the food and transport is fine, and that in some countries you just do not get better - And that all they have to do is make sure they get healthy sustinance. They even have a personal chef.

Last thing is about money, players simply want more money to play.

DBU, MEDIA, ex Players, people and players from other nations say:

- You should not get paid to play for your country, it is a privilege.

- You have the right to say no to play for your country if you do not want to use your time doing so.

- But they always complain if they are not picked for the NT, so it must mean they REALLY want to play, so they should stop focusing on personal gains.

- That, they do not play well enough or get enough results to even ask something like this.

- That their colleagues from other nations play for free and get better results.

The biggest culprits in this discussion seem to be:

Christian Eriksen
Simon Kjaer
Thomas Delaney

All of whom make ALOT of money.

This has left a HORRIBLE taste in many peoples mouthes, and most Danes agree that they cannot align themselves with the players and their demands, most people are pissed at them, and would rather see a team of amateurs that WANT to play.

And in the future, they want players to play who are not necessarily the best, but the most eager.

Like it was mentioned, alot of these players complain when they are not picked for the NT, so it means they do WANT to play.
But they should decline if they see the NT as a job and not a privilege.

The people think the players live in a bubble, a different world, where they are used to people pampering them, saying YES to them. Most have never had a real job, with a normal wage - And for some reason they are looking for sympathy from the people. And for some reason, they would rather see DBU fined and banned from competitions, than let other players represent the team.

 

[Corto]

Thanks for the write up from a Danish POV, Astro

 

[maclean]

I've actually always wondered whether NT players get paid for their appearance or not. Both perspectives kind of make sense. I'd always assumed there was some sort of compensation, just nothing exciting. The sponsoring stuff, I find it kind of hard to judge, but surely the Danish team is not alone in having to deal with this issue - how do other teams deal with it? I regularly see Czech players, including the biggest names, posing in national team uniforms for national team ads, but I don't recall ever seeing a specifically Puma ad that used them, but I also don't remember the last time I actually saw an ad for Puma, so hard to say, plus I'm pretty sure players like Rosicky and Cech, the last ones to actually have enough international cred to have marketing pull, were signed up with Puma too anyhow...

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I've actually always wondered whether NT players get paid for their appearance or not. Both perspectives kind of make sense. I'd always assumed there was some sort of compensation, just nothing exciting. The sponsoring stuff, I find it kind of hard to judge, but surely the Danish team is not alone in having to deal with this issue - how do other teams deal with it? I regularly see Czech players, including the biggest names, posing in national team uniforms for national team ads, but I don't recall ever seeing a specifically Puma ad that used them, but I also don't remember the last time I actually saw an ad for Puma, so hard to say, plus I'm pretty sure players like Rosicky and Cech, the last ones to actually have enough international cred to have marketing pull, were signed up with Puma too anyhow...

It's not unique to Denmark. There's contracts regulating these things in every FA and league. They can't seem to agree on a new contract in Denmark though, and that's why there's this situation.

 

[QuietContrarian]

I've actually always wondered whether NT players get paid for their appearance or not. Both perspectives kind of make sense. I'd always assumed there was some sort of compensation, just nothing exciting. The sponsoring stuff, I find it kind of hard to judge, but surely the Danish team is not alone in having to deal with this issue - how do other teams deal with it? I regularly see Czech players, including the biggest names, posing in national team uniforms for national team ads, but I don't recall ever seeing a specifically Puma ad that used them, but I also don't remember the last time I actually saw an ad for Puma, so hard to say, plus I'm pretty sure players like Rosicky and Cech, the last ones to actually have enough international cred to have marketing pull, were signed up with Puma too anyhow...

It is a special thing in Denmark, as they use a very prominent and cult Danish brand called Hummel. They have ALWAYS done commercial work with Hummel, at least when they have played in Hummel. They played in Adidas for a few years.

Players do get compensation, and it is small compared to what they make at their clubs, but they got huge bonuses for playing like shit in the WC, and they want bigger bonuses in the future.

The whole debacle has been put on standby for the moment, and they will continue on a makeshift agreement untill after the Wales game - So yes the normal players will play tomorrow.

The amateur players that chose to represent Denmark against Slovakia, have been treated like shit by other players - Receiving threats like "I hope for your sake, your wear shin protection in the next game" Etc.

One player happily wrote, I have just gotten my debut for the NT on Twitter, and Matthias Zanka sarcastically replied, "Congratulations".

Victor Fischer was asked how the players would regain the peoples trust again, and he said, "nothing, what do you want us to do, sell ice cream at the concession stands"?

It is safe to say, these guys live in a bubble, and have lost ALOT of credibility with the Danish people.

They have turned this into a union issue, and nt football should NEVER be that, as it is not a job, and it is not mandatory to play for your nation.

It is no secret where I stand in this whole discussion, and I am sure it is easy to read from my replies that I stand with the FA, and not the players.

But, I think the whole football industry is sick, it has become a full of greedy primadonnas who are further and further away from the pleebs.

They dress like fashionistas, and use social media to boost their already huge ego's, and rake in money from sponsorships and massive monthly wages, and still complain - They always use the same mantra, "but we only have a short time to make our money" - It was true once, when footballers were paid less. But not today. firstly most players end up with jobs after, some even good jobs - And the amount of money they do make, during these short careers, is enough to surpass any normal job for a lifetime of work.

 

[phisherman]

Declan Rice switches allegiance from Republic of Ireland to England

Declan Rice will be playing for England.

 

[East Coast Bias]

He can lead his team to glory in the Brexit Cup after they're booted from the Euros.

Defeating giants like the Falkland Islands, Bermuda, and Gilbraltar.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Good for Rice. Walks into the team already over Dier and Henderson.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

He can lead his team to glory in the Brexit Cup after they're booted from the Euros.

Defeating giants like the Falkland Islands, Bermuda, and Gilbraltar.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Can't blame the kid. Ireland would be a complete non-entity without English-born players who may or may not have had an Irish granny. Almost all of whom would have chosen England if they had been deemed good enough if we're honest.

 

[Elliman]

Can't blame the kid. Ireland would be a complete non-entity without English-born players who may or may not have had an Irish granny. Almost all of whom would have chosen England if they had been deemed good enough if we're honest.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[koyvoo]

There isn’t much difference in the inherent skill and creativity between English or Irish born sndvtrained players anyhow.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Absolute nonsense.

They're close enough to a non-entity *with* the UK-born players of Irish descent.

And players like Cascarino, Houghton, Hughton, Aldridge, Babb, Breen, Carsley, Connolly, Holland, Lawrenson, McAteer, McCarthy, McGrath, Phelan, Sheedy, Townsend and Walters certainly have made a huge difference through the years.

And yes most of those guys weren't on the England radar when they decided for Ireland. Only they know what they truly feel like in their hearts..but I doubt most of them felt some strong affinity for Ireland over England growing up. Ireland has profited greatly from English football through the years, so there's really no reason to complain about Declan Rice choosing this path.

 

[koyvoo]

There is very little to zero difference in the inherent skill and technical ability between players born in Great Britain and players born and trained in Ireland.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Pretty dubious statement given that Ireland produces a really, really small number of footballers good enough to play in top European leagues for good teams. Ireland usually has no more than 1 or 2 guys like that at the same time which isn't really good even compared to small continental countries like Denmark or Croatia.

The football infrastructure in Ireland is awful and the sport doesn't attract all of the most athletic kids (as rugby and GAA have better infrastructure and offer a path to fame and glory as well.) In England you don't have to go very far anywhere to get to a decently competitive football club playing in a solid competition. In Ireland that's tough to come by outside the bigger cities.

I don't even like England, in fact in the course of my life I've said things about England and the English that would probably get me thrown into prison in some places if I posted them on Twitter, but I'm not one to let my dislikes cloud my judgment..unlike most posters on these forums.

 

[koyvoo]

Compare the populations of the two countries and the amount of registered players in youth systems. Now also factor in that the big time league for these young players would be in England, not Ireland. It’s not like English “talent” floods the other European league and it’s not even like English players or coaches make up anywhere near the major of influence in their own league.

Given the stature of their league, their historical presence and longevity, they should be like Canada in hockey. Maybe not to that extent, but they shouldn’t be 2nd or 3rd rate in the international game. They just don’t produce the talent, technical ability or creativity in players than many, many “lesser” nations do.

 

[East Coast Bias]

There's a massive difference in Ireland and England when it comes to training and development. I really dont understand what point you're trying to make here?

 

[Elliman]

More nonsense. The only player I can’t defend is Cascarino who hasn’t a lick of Irish blood in him. Now instead of breaking down your post and showing you how flawed your argument is... how about I act like you and just say something just as crazy.

England.

Kyle Walker - Jamaican
Dele Alli - Nigerian
Fabian Delph - Guyana
Ruben Loftus-Cheek - Guyana
Raheem Sterling - Jamaican Born
Harry Kane - Irish
Jadon Sancho - Trinidad
Harry Winks - Spain
Jesse Lingard - St Vincent & Grenadines
Ross Barkley - Nigerian
Marcus Bettinelli - Italian
Michael Keane - Irish
Trent Alexander Arnold - USA
Ben Chilwell - New Zealand
James Tarkowski - Polish
Gary Cahill - Irish

That’s just from squads picked in the last 2 years.
I could easily name a 100 players since the 80’s who’s played for England but are not fully English.

Do yourself a favor and mount off that high horse you got yourself on.

They're close enough to a non-entity *with* the UK-born players of Irish descent.

And players like Cascarino, Houghton, Hughton, Aldridge, Babb, Breen, Carsley, Connolly, Holland, Lawrenson, McAteer, McCarthy, McGrath, Phelan, Sheedy, Townsend and Walters certainly have made a huge difference through the years.

And yes most of those guys weren't on the England radar when they decided for Ireland. Only they know what they truly feel like in their hearts..but I doubt most of them felt some strong affinity for Ireland over England growing up. Ireland has profited greatly from English football through the years, so there's really no reason to complain about Declan Rice choosing this path.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Huh? Pretty much all those players were developed in England. Which is exactly where all those Ireland players were developed, too. This isn't about 'blood', this is about how weak the football structure and culture in Ireland is.