World Cup: National Team threads

[Deficient Mode]

I see... makes sense. That's why I'm not concerned about those positions, there's plenty of talented players to choose from. Same with wingers. Midfielders with good passing range and vision for through balls is what we are lacking right now. Renato Augusto is getting the job done but would be good to have some younger players ready to step in.

Fabinho is soooo good as a midfielder though. Great passing range (already one of the best long passers around). Great pressing resistance. Fantastic player.

Brazil could be a threat in 2018; not sure if the team comes together in time properly though.

 

[Luigi Habs]

Fabinho can also play RB. With lack of good players at that position I don't know why he hasn't been used there yet.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't consider Vertonghen elite. Alderweireld borderline.

Alderweireld is better than borderline. I think he's WC.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Fabinho can also play RB. With lack of good players at that position I don't know why he hasn't been used there yet.

Midfield is more important than right back, that's why

 

[John Pedro]

Fabinho is soooo good as a midfielder though. Great passing range (already one of the best long passers around). Great pressing resistance. Fantastic player.

Brazil could be a threat in 2018; not sure if the team comes together in time properly though.

yeah Fabinho should be a no-brainer right now, too bad CBF doesn't care about guys not playing in big markets. Maybe they're waiting for him to move to City so they can call him instead of Fernandinho.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Varane is already too good. We shall see with Dembele, Martial, and Mbappe.

4-4-2 doesn't suit them though

4-3-3 with Dembele centrally.

 

[cgf]

I wonder if they couldn't make things work with Fabinho sitting behind Coutinho & Rafinha/Allan. If they are structured correctly that midfield should be able to move the ball to the attackers efficiently...even when robbed of space.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Croatia is so overrated. They have a WC player, and a few very good players, yet they don't get any better results than a team like the USA. Mexico beat them for a spot in the World Cup Round of 16.

 

[Deficient Mode]

4-3-3 with Dembele centrally.

Remember when Dembele was only good on the wings tho?

Croatia is so overrated. They have a WC player, and a few very good players, yet they don't get any better results than a team like the USA. Mexico beat them for a spot in the World Cup Round of 16.

Bad coaching+one game elimination will do that

Definitely a far more talented team than the US

Bad coaching and the randomness of international tournaments have done them in though

 

[John Pedro]

I wonder if they couldn't make things work with Fabinho sitting behind Coutinho & Rafinha/Allan. If they are structured correctly that midfield should be able to move the ball to the attackers efficiently...even when robbed of space.

I think it would work fine... Coutinho wouldn't be as effective as he's when he plays wide, but that would open a spot for Douglas Costa.

Fabinho-Rafinha-Coutinho-Neymar-Costa; Jesus.

 

[Corto]

Croatia is so overrated. They have a WC player, and a few very good players, yet they don't get any better results than a team like the USA. Mexico beat them for a spot in the World Cup Round of 16.

As Deficient Mode said, our coaches (managers) have been horrible since Bilic left, present manager included.

After beating Spain while resting half the starting lineup in the last EURO, he somehow managed to insure a line-up with Modric, Rakitic, Brozovic and Perisic had zero shots on goal again Portugual, opting to "stop Ronaldo" (his own words) instead of playing our own game.
Kovacic, Rog and Pjaca were either used as late late subs or not at all...

Similar to Wilmots' Belgium or McClaren's England from 2008, you can have a great lineup on paper, but if there's an incompetent guy running the show, you'll more than likely gonna underperform in the long run.

 

[Savi]

Alderweireld is better than borderline. I think he's WC.

Yeah me too. Toby's a top class CB

Vertonghen isn't, he's too prone to making boneheaded plays, I've seen him giving away too many stupid PK's in his career to think he's WC

 

[Evilo]

If by world class, we describe top 10 players at his position, then he's borderline to me.
Boateng, Hummels, Thiago Silva, Pique, Bonucci, Chiellini, Ramos, Godin are a notch above IMO off the top of my head.
Then you have a tier of Koscielny, Alderweireld, David Luiz, Varane, Pepe, Kompany and i'm sure I'm forgetting some names.

 

[Corto]

If by world class, we describe top 10 players at his position, then he's borderline to me.
Boateng, Hummels, Thiago Silva, Pique, Bonucci, Chiellini, Ramos, Godin are a notch above IMO off the top of my head.
Then you have a tier of Koscielny, Alderweireld, David Luiz, Varane, Pepe, Kompany and i'm sure I'm forgetting some names.

For me, Alderweireld is closer to the first batch of players than the second (especially Pepe who's been a reserve in Madrid, or Kompany who's been out for so long, regardless of how good he usually is).

Obviously, there's no way to quantify this...

But I will say a lot of these Tottenham players are underrated because they play, well, for Tottenham, as opposed to a "standard" big name club of the last 20-30 years.
Somehow, all the media attention goes to Alli - who I think at this point is getting overhyped and overrated - while guys like Alderweireld, Dembele or Walker are getting overlooked.

 

[Evilo]

Tottenham sank in Europe. Again. At some point it deserves to be mentionned.

OTOH, Pepe was the best defenseman in Euro 16. Easily the best Portugese player (with the goalie). Alder never had those kind of performance on the biggest competitions.

 

[Luigi Habs]

Midfield is more important than right back, that's why

Yes but Brazil have some decent options in midfield. I think Casemiro can play the same role for them.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Yes but Brazil have some decent options in midfield. I think Casemiro can play the same role for them.

Fabinho is better than Casemiro tho. They could also move Fernandinho to RB. He hasn't looked completely out of place there for City imo and it would allow Fabinho to stay in midfield.

 

[cgf]

Yes but Brazil have some decent options in midfield. I think Casemiro can play the same role for them.

Maybe defensively; but the things Fabinho can do with the ball, Casemiro can't even dream of.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Remember when Dembele was only good on the wings tho

He's a far better winger or I think striker, but I just don't see how else you could configure this group of players. Someone has to play centrally in a playmaking position.

Bad coaching+one game elimination will do that

Definitely a far more talented team than the US

Bad coaching and the randomness of international tournaments have done them in though

Everyone complains about bad coaching. I think you'd find that over the course of many years and many tournaments that it all evens out. Besides, international tournaments aren't so random. The best teams usually find a way to win these tournaments or get to the end. Look at which teams have won the most World Cups. If Croatia was actually a really good team, they'd be getting better results. Doesn't matter what teams their players play for, if they can't be beating teams that they are supposedly better than. They got the floor wiped with them at the World Cup by Mexico who I'm sure you'd say is far less talented.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

As Deficient Mode said, our coaches (managers) have been horrible since Bilic left, present manager included.

After beating Spain while resting half the starting lineup in the last EURO, he somehow managed to insure a line-up with Modric, Rakitic, Brozovic and Perisic had zero shots on goal again Portugual, opting to "stop Ronaldo" (his own words) instead of playing our own game.
Kovacic, Rog and Pjaca were either used as late late subs or not at all...

Similar to Wilmots' Belgium or McClaren's England from 2008, you can have a great lineup on paper, but if there's an incompetent guy running the show, you'll more than likely gonna underperform in the long run.

And as I said to DM, everyone complains about the manager. If you guys are really good, one tournament won't matter, and you guys will be up there competing deep into the next World Cup, and the next Euros. This stuff should all even out, and the cream should rise to the top, regardless of fan complaints about managers, short tournaments.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If by world class, we describe top 10 players at his position, then he's borderline to me.
Boateng, Hummels, Thiago Silva, Pique, Bonucci, Chiellini, Ramos, Godin are a notch above IMO off the top of my head.
Then you have a tier of Koscielny, Alderweireld, David Luiz, Varane, Pepe, Kompany and i'm sure I'm forgetting some names.

I think the problem with what you are doing is making a mistake of putting Alderweireld into a tier where he is the best, instead of a tier where he is one of the worst.

He's the best in that second tier. In the first tier, I think he's better than Chiellini. Even if he wasn't though, thats still a top 10 player at the position, as you only listed eight in the first tier. If he's one of the two best in the second tier, he's top 10 in the world.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

For me, Alderweireld is closer to the first batch of players than the second (especially Pepe who's been a reserve in Madrid, or Kompany who's been out for so long, regardless of how good he usually is).

Obviously, there's no way to quantify this...

But I will say a lot of these Tottenham players are underrated because they play, well, for Tottenham, as opposed to a "standard" big name club of the last 20-30 years.
Somehow, all the media attention goes to Alli - who I think at this point is getting overhyped and overrated - while guys like Alderweireld, Dembele or Walker are getting overlooked.

Rose as well. He's really underrated. One of the best LB's in the world.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I think the problem with what you are doing is making a mistake of putting Alderweireld into a tier where he is the best, instead of a tier where he is one of the worst.

He's the best in that second tier. In the first tier, I think he's better than Chiellini. Even if he wasn't though, thats still a top 10 player at the position, as you only listed eight in the first tier. If he's one of the two best in the second tier, he's top 10 in the world.

Alderweireld is not better than David Luiz.

 

[Moncherry]

As Deficient Mode said, our coaches (managers) have been horrible since Bilic left, present manager included.

After beating Spain while resting half the starting lineup in the last EURO, he somehow managed to insure a line-up with Modric, Rakitic, Brozovic and Perisic had zero shots on goal again Portugual, opting to "stop Ronaldo" (his own words) instead of playing our own game.
Kovacic, Rog and Pjaca were either used as late late subs or not at all...

Similar to Wilmots' Belgium or McClaren's England from 2008, you can have a great lineup on paper, but if there's an incompetent guy running the show, you'll more than likely gonna underperform in the long run.

Blaming the manager is such a cop out. Maybe Croatia could have been coached better but that doesn't explain why that supposedly best midfield in the world put in one of the most pathetically incompetent performances I've ever seen. That's not on the manager. That's on the players. Portugal were ripe for the taking in that game and Croatia did nothing.

By the way, what makes you think Croatia is even better than a team like Portugal anyway?

 

[Evilo]

I think the problem with what you are doing is making a mistake of putting Alderweireld into a tier where he is the best, instead of a tier where he is one of the worst.

He's the best in that second tier. In the first tier, I think he's better than Chiellini. Even if he wasn't though, thats still a top 10 player at the position, as you only listed eight in the first tier. If he's one of the two best in the second tier, he's top 10 in the world.

Thing is I don't think he's the best of the other tier. Varane, Luiz and Pepe are better, IMO.
That would at least throw him out of the top 10.

EDIT : In fact I see him as a Koscielny clone (not in terms of style). And I've always made it clear that I think Koscielny doesn't have the international level. He's a good to great EPL CB, but as soon as the level ups to international or european games, then he's in trouble.