Switzerland: National team discussion

[torero]

It's strange to think Dan Fritsche will be playing for Switzerland. I still remember him being a big time prospect here in the US and playing on a few US world junior teams.

What's the impetus behind adding foreign-born players who aren't necessarily any better than their Swiss trained and produced counterparts? It seems to me the Swiss program should be beyond that strategy at this point, unless they're adding a very talented player.

As a Swiss, i do not like too much this idea neither ... and i am disturbed when the goals of my team are scored exclusively by the foreigners. Yet Hanlon has one aim only, to make the Swiss team win ... and if he deems that Fritsche or ... can increase the odds the Swiss team to win, he'll make it.

He has a "miamoto musachi" appraoach.

 

[jonas2244]

Almond and Fritsche have a Swiss passport, it's not that easy to get one. And they played enough years in Switzerland to be able to play for Swi.
We always had one or two of those players, I don't have a problem, as long as it doesn't get more.

 

[swisdan]

It's strange to think Dan Fritsche will be playing for Switzerland. I still remember him being a big time prospect here in the US and playing on a few US world junior teams.

What's the impetus behind adding foreign-born players who aren't necessarily any better than their Swiss trained and produced counterparts? It seems to me the Swiss program should be beyond that strategy at this point, unless they're adding a very talented player.

This selection for Arosa is only for testing the players. For me we can really call a national player if he plays at world championship. So we ll see who ll be present in during the WM 2015.

Anyway, taking Almond at this point ( no game yet with Geneva) have no real sense for me.

 

[Matsi]

I don't get the love for Fritsche. He's nothing special at all and should not even get consideration for the national team.

He has 8 points in 29 games while playing for one of the NLA's top teams. Don't know what they were thinking when they nominated him... probably not much at all

 

[Matsi]

Almond and Fritsche have a Swiss passport, it's not that easy to get one. And they played enough years in Switzerland to be able to play for Swi.
We always had one or two of those players, I don't have a problem, as long as it doesn't get more.

Well, it seems to me it's rather easy for professional athletes to get the passport. I bet the league uses its influence, too, to help those guys get Swiss citizenship. Regular, hard-working immigrants work their ass of to make a living over here to maybe one day get a Swiss passport. That's just not fair, it's a damn awful joke. Actually, the Swiss Hockey Organization is a joke, from top to bottom.
Guys like Fritsche don't have any ties to Switzerland whatsoever except that they have Swiss roots somewhere in their family tree. They're mercenaries and as soon as they get a better offer somewhere else (or in his case, if Team USA calls to offer him a spot on their roster - which will never happen, so it's only rhetorical) they'll jump the ship.

It's a completely different thing with guys who have foreign roots but were raised in Switzerland, and who have developed into pro players over here. They belong in the same category as all the other hard-working immigrants/secondos who have been here for an extended time.

By the way, it somehow has a sour taste since it makes the impression that Switzerland doesn't have enough home-grown players worthy of being part of the Swiss National Team.

Either you can ice a national team comprising of players who feel attached to the country they represent or you should stay away from international competition. Don't build a team by buying citizenship for mercenaries just to be more competitive.

You win or you lose with what you have. That's a quality called dignity.


edit: By the way, in his player profile on the ZSC Lions website Fritsche states that his idol is George W. Bush The dude is dumb as a brick

 

[jonas2244]

It's the same rules for everyone. Dominichelli had to wait 5 years after his marriage with a swiss lady until he got the passport. Remember Donguha Lee who won Gold at the Olympics in Atlanta for Switzerland. He also had to wait 5 years. I think Almond is of Swiss heritage so he had the possibility to get the Swiss passport. Then he had to play 2 full seasons in Switzerland (Fritsche had to play 4 seasons because he played for the US U-20 team) to be eglible according to IIHF rules.
Why shouldn't you call someone who is Swiss and eglible to play for Switzerland and wants to play for Switzerland?

Fritsche would be a role-player, 4th line, I mean you cannot pick a national team with the scoring-list, you need players with other strengths and Fritsche could challenge such a spot.

 

[torero]

Why shouldn't you call someone who is Swiss and eglible to play for Switzerland and wants to play for Switzerland?

It comes from the gutts. I feel confortable when Swiss players play for Switzerland.
probably pride and dignity. It is my country.

I assimilate to Swiss, Swiss and who grew up here and are culturaly Swiss (we have plenty of immigrants 2nd generation ... ex : our football team ... i am fine with that) ... A Swiss player, speakiing english on an interview disturbs me .... 1 ok ... not more.

Intuitively, it sums up by ...he has to speak the local language ... with the local accent. That means he grew up here and he is from here. If someone does not speak either Swiss-french, Swiss german, Swiss Italian or Romantch, i do not consider him as true Swiss. No matter what color he has or race he is. A Djourou is Swiss.

This is where i draw the line ... and having more than one player that is on the other side of the line in my national team disturbs me.

 

[jonas2244]

I get your point, I just don't share it totally.

It's always a question of who this player is. Paul DiPietro played with all his heart and with a lot of pride. We'll see how Fritsche and Almond are doing. Give them a chance to show how proud they are to play for Switzerland.

 

[torero]

I get your point, I just don't share it totally.

It's always a question of who this player is. Paul DiPietro played with all his heart and with a lot of pride. We'll see how Fritsche and Almond are doing. Give them a chance to show how proud they are to play for Switzerland.

I understood that we did not agree ! ... i was just clarifying my thought ... often a constructive process for oneself and for the others ... because in your reply ... you make me question the reality of my point.

And i forgot DiPietro, the hero of Turin 2006 vs Canada. (i must say i didn't see the game ... i was in the african bush ... and when i was told by a Swedish missionaire that we won this ... i thought he was making fun of me. Pretty funny moment. Well at the time i wasn't aware of DiPietro. I could finally watch the game many months later (still under the equator) and ... it is true that he fought his hearth ... yet their was a lot of self pride .... like a "you did not recognize me ... well now i do this to you". The point is he was scoring by egoism ... rather than sacrificing for his country.

in fact you are right, at the end, what counts is that they must be with us (me).

Once, when Switzerland had beaten spain in the mundial, i remember having seen a car of an Arab woman dressed as such with childrens with Swiss flags honking and being genuinely happy for the victory ... i felt they where with us.

But the comments of people about my country using foreign talent to win games disturbs me as well.

Complex position

 

[swisdan]

To come back to the selection, i really have difficulty to understand some selections, even if it is a simple tournament.

Fritsche, as you said Matsi, Almond ( the reason i gave before) or Moser who has to come back in shape, no point this season. I can see Kukan too who was scratched recently meaning it shouldnt be in good shape too... or Baltisberger who are selected for the last two tournaments. Come on we speak about Baltisberger.. hum..

I mean.. shouldnt a player really deserve a selection in your national team? It seems open door for anyone. And it disturbs me at this point.

 

[Matsi]

Just to set things straight - Paul DiPietro speaks fluent Italian and is married to a Swiss woman.

He signed his first contract in Switzerland in 1998 (HC Ambri-Piotta), then went to play for EV Zug where he stayed until the end of the 2010/11 season. His first game with the Swiss National Team was in 2006.

Hnat Domenichelli came over in 2003 and didn't play for the National Team until 2010.

Ryan Gardner - got under contract with HC Ambri-Piotta in 1997, first played for the National Team in 2009.

Neither of them are "hired hands" just to (supposedly) improve the National Team; Fritsche is, IMO. The blame is not on him, though, it's on the clowns at the head of Swiss Hockey.

 

[jonas2244]

To come back to the selection, i really have difficulty to understand some selections, even if it is a simple tournament.

Kukan was scratched? Did you mean Fiala?

I woulnd't see too much into these selection. Hanlon wants to see everyone who could be a possibility for the WC. This makes sense in my eyes, the players get to know the new coach, the new system. And I hope that Moser returns to full health and old strength until next may and it surley is not a disadvantage if Moser gets to know everything now.

@Matsi
Gardner and Dominichelli also married Swiss ladies, as far as I know.
As I said, there are rules which you have to follow to get a swiss passport. Fritsche and Almond have one. Let them play for Switzerland and show them what they are able to do. They deserve a chance.

I'd rather see Almond and Fritsche play with much pride than Wick and Sprunger who decline to play for Switzerland anymore (altough they did profit a lot in the past)

 

[swisdan]

Kukan was scratched too lately.

 

[torero]

Kukan was scratched too lately.

it is a Swiss feature in this last week

 

[doug88]

Kukan was scratched? Did you mean Fiala?

I woulnd't see too much into these selection. Hanlon wants to see everyone who could be a possibility for the WC. This makes sense in my eyes, the players get to know the new coach, the new system. And I hope that Moser returns to full health and old strength until next may and it surley is not a disadvantage if Moser gets to know everything now.

@Matsi
Gardner and Dominichelli also married Swiss ladies, as far as I know.
As I said, there are rules which you have to follow to get a swiss passport. Fritsche and Almond have one. Let them play for Switzerland and show them what they are able to do. They deserve a chance.

I'd rather see Almond and Fritsche play with much pride than Wick and Sprunger who decline to play for Switzerland anymore (altough they did profit a lot in the past)

Almond is pretty much a lock, he plays every puck, el nino kinda guy.. On the other hand, Fritsche doesn't deserve to be on the team. I mean he's an average player in the NLA, he doesn't stand apart! C'mon guys he scored 4 goals thus far and he's playing on the best team. We've guys like Marc Wieser who's netted 13 goals so far.. As long as Fritsche doesn't make the WC squad I'm happy! Anyway, half of the guys who have been selected to play in the Arosa Challenge won't go to Praha comes the WC.

 

[stv11]

Not much to take from the Arosa challenge. Better play than at the Deutschland cup, which is not exactly a surprise as there was much more quality in the roster, but in the end the more convincing players were the ones who were already safe bets to perform well (Ambühl, Hollenstein, Von Gunten...). Maybe Bertschy and Pestoni have made good cases for themselves.

On the other hand, it was obvious that Moser and Almond weren't in their best shape. I guess they could get another call in February.

 

[krax]

According to sihf.ch (Swiss Icehockey Federation), Glen Hanlon is not the Swiss national coach anymore. Family reasons and incompatible views on collaboration.

 

[The Noot]

I'm glad that he's gone, I just couldn't see it working out.

At the same time I'm shivering in fear when I think about the potential replacement options. Hollenstein isn't really up for the job in my opinion, but I don't think he's more than an interim coach anyway.

 

[jonas2244]

Makes the decision letting Simpson go even more stupid.

 

[stv11]

Finally got some time to give my two cents about this.

I was still neutral about Hanlon, I liked what he tried to do even though the result wasn't that impressive, but I cut him some slack as there wasn't much he could do about the lack of offensive players at the WC. I also think that the most of the bashing the team got was unwarranted.

Now regarding the current situation, I can't see much positive in it. I'm not very enthusiastic at any of the possible future coach, and can't see a realistic option that would be better than Hanlon.

 

[stv11]

And there's the Deutschland cup roster. Probably the strongest roster for this tournament in a long time:

Benjamin Conz (HC Fribourg-Gottéron), Sandro Zurkirchen (HC Ambri-Piotta).

Robin Grossmann (EV Zug), Timo Helbling (SC Bern), Romain Loeffel (Genève-Servette HC), Dominik Schlumpf (EV Zug), Lukas Stoop (Kloten Flyers), Ramon Untersander (SC Bern), Patrick von Gunten (Kloten Flyers).

Luca i (ZSC Lions), Etienne Froidevaux (Lausanne HC), Jason Fuchs (HC Ambri-Piotta), Fabrice Herzog (ZSC Lions), Gregory Hofmann (HC Lugano), Mike Künzle (ZSC Lions), Lino Martschini (EV Zug), Simon Moser(SC Bern), Kilian Mottet (HC Fribourg-Gottéron), Inti Pestoni (HC Ambri-Piotta), Vincent Praplan (Kloten Flyers), Thomas Rüfenacht (SC Bern), Tristan Scherwey (SC Bern), Reto Suri (EV Zug).

 

[stv11]

Well, say what you want about Hanlon, but he was definitely better than this weekend's mess.

To be fair, the offense and special teams were ok, but that defense...

 

[jonas2244]

I agree, no discipline on the ice also, so many penalties.

I don't think the federation has much time to find a coach, waiting too long could be expensive at the WC.

 

[stv11]

So it's Fischer. I can't say I'm enthusiastic, despite last season's 3rd place I wasn't convinced by Lugano's play, way too risky (has any team ever given up that many 2 on 1?) and weak special teams. And this season he seemed to completely lose control and was unable to handle their slump.

On a lighter not, 12 years later Von Arx is back in the national team!

 

[stv11]

The team for the Arosa challenge:

Leonardo Genoni (HC Davos), Tobias Stephan (EV Zug)

Severin Blindenbacher (ZSC Lions), Eric Blum (SC Bern), Félicien Du Bois (HC Davos), Philippe Furrer (HC Lugano), Robin Grossmann (EV Zug), Romain Loeffel (Genève-Servette HC), Dominik Schlumpf (EV Zug), Patrick Von Gunten (Kloten Flyers)

Andres Ambühl (HC Davos), Damien Brunner (HC Lugano), Gaëtan Haas(EHC Biel), Gregory Hofmann (HC Lugano), Lino Martschini (EV Zug), Simon Moser (SC Bern), Inti Pestoni (HC Ambri-Piotta), Kevin Romy (Genève-Servette HC), Gregory Sciaroni (HC Davos), Reto Suri (EV Zug), Morris Trachsler (ZSC Lions), Julian Walker (HC Lugano), Samuel Walser (HC Davos)

I don't see the point of picking such a strong team for an exhibition tournament. At least give some rest to the Davos and Lugano players before the Spengler cup, or drop those who have shown their worth at the Deutschland cup.