Nathan MacKinnon?

[dahrougem2]

He's still overrated, next week when he puts up a few points everyone will have forgot that he's -8 and he only has one point in his last 6 games. I was shunned for saying it earlier in the season but I'll say it again, he's not as good as people on these board will lead you to believe.

He still has tremendous potential, it's undeniable.

But, was his stats inflated last year because he played with Statsny? Yes. Was he given every opportunity to shine? Yes.

Half of his assists last year at even strength were secondary assists. He's capable of producing more than he is now, as a winger, with a capable center. But as a center he's not there yet.

This is something I'll never understand. What is so bad about secondary assists? What's the difference? Does a primary assist mean more or something to you guys? If a defenseman makes an absolutely beautiful breakaway saucer pass over three players' sticks from his own goal line to a forward streaking down the ice, and that player goes in alone and gets stopped, but his linemate is there to pick up the rebound, does that take away from the defenseman's pass just because now he's got a "secondary" assist rather than a primary assist?

The argument of primary vs secondary assists will forever, to me, be absolute garbage. A player needs to make a play in order to get an assist in the first place. Not like it's bouncing off their stick right to the primary assist getter.

EDIT: Anyways, on to MacKinnon. Kid needs to learn the offensive game. He still thinks that he is in junior. He's not. On the breakout he routinely wants the puck on his stick, which is a good thing, but he doesn't exactly want to pass the puck. When he gets into the zone, he's got so much speed yet he for some reason decides to stop, curl towards the boards, and sit and analyze things. He's too predictable. Either that, or he comes in flying, yet lets a weak wrist shot go from just inside the blue line which ECHL goalies are going to stop blind folded. He needs to spend a lot of time watching video of himself and then of other star offensive players in order to see what he's doing wrong

 

[Bee Sheriff]

No kidding, he's even lost track of his posts.

I meant in my original post expert.

Of course we're going to respond when you post uninformed nonsense, that's like me saying Mackinnon is bad defensively because he's a -12, despite Av's fans saying other wise, because you know, people who watch their teams tend to know more than people who don't, shocking, I know.

If you weren't some conspiracy theorist nut i'd give you credibility but...nevermind, Cooper is out to get Drouin, glad i'm more informed now, thank you!

 

[Mikeaveli]

I meant in my original post expert.



If you weren't some conspiracy theorist nut i'd give you credibility but...nevermind, Cooper is out to get Drouin, glad i'm more informed now, thank you!

No, thank you for letting us know that our player hasn't been playing well, even though he has literally been playing well. Thank you.

 

[Bee Sheriff]

No, thank you for letting us know that our player hasn't been playing well, even though he has literally been playing well. Thank you.

I didn't say it in the context of he's playing bad hockey period. I said he's not been playing top 6 hockey. He'll be a star one day but that day is not today. For now he seems better suited for a bottom six scoring role.

 

[Asinine]

This is something I'll never understand. What is so bad about secondary assists? What's the difference? Does a primary assist mean more or something to you guys?

I know right? That was probably the worst argument I've ever heard.

And HALF of his assists to boot. Like, you can only have a primary or secondary assist, which would make having an even 50/50 between them be the 'norm'.

 

[AvsGuy]

Since I was the one who humped MacK's leg harder than anyone this offseason, can fellow Avs fans clear something up for me: Why the insistance upon MacKinnon playing center? If need be, the Avs already have two star caliber centers in Duchene and O'Reilly, and MacKinnon tore it up in the playoffs last year playing on Stastny's wing. Why not play him as a winger and lighten his load of responsibility? He's clearly struggling with it.

 

[Freudian]

Since I was the one who humped MacK's leg harder than anyone this offseason, can fellow Avs fans clear something up for me: Why the insistance upon MacKinnon playing center? If need be, the Avs already have two star caliber centers in Duchene and O'Reilly, and MacKinnon tore it up in the playoffs last year playing on Stastny's wing. Why not play him as a winger and lighten his load of responsibility? He's clearly struggling with it.

Because two-three years from now MacKinnon will be a great center and can drive the play much better when playing in the middle than on the wing?

The cost of it is him learning on the job at 19 and while annoying, it's better in the long run.

 

[frivolousz21]

Well, pretty much everything in this post is inaccurate. He's been a healthy scratch because TB is rotating forwards into the lineup, which for whatever reason involves Drouin. That rotation happens regardless of the player's performance. Drouin had an assist in each of his last two games, one of them pretty breath-taking, and found himself scratched last night.

He's been pretty outstanding when he's played, but is being given very little opportunity. There hasn't been much "poor performance" to speak of, and you won't find anyone who'll say otherwise. This is just what Jon Cooper does with young players, and it's frustrating to say the least.

Drouin got his opportunity with Stamkos because we had injuries. The moment we healed up, he was demoted. Since then, no LW has looked good with Stamkos, and Stamkos himself is having a sub-par season. Kucherov was in the same boat until injuries struck. Palat and Johnson, last year's calder candidates, didn't get their chance in a scoring role until Stamkos broke his leg.

If he wasn't a liability he would be in the lineup every night.

No need to make excuses for a 19 year old.

 

[systemsgo]

He's still overrated, next week when he puts up a few points everyone will have forgot that he's -8 and he only has one point in his last 6 games. I was shunned for saying it earlier in the season but I'll say it again, he's not as good as people on these board will lead you to believe.

He still has tremendous potential, it's undeniable.

But, was his stats inflated last year because he played with Statsny? Yes. Was he given every opportunity to shine? Yes.

Half of his assists last year at even strength were secondary assists. He's capable of producing more than he is now, as a winger, with a capable center. But as a center he's not there yet.

And the other half are primary. So what? Are players supposed to only have 10% of their assists be secondary assists?

 

[Bee Sheriff]

If he wasn't a liability he would be in the lineup every night.

No need to make excuses for a 19 year old.

No man, you must not have read where they said it's all just some conspiracy from management to keep him from getting his bonuses

 

[Bender]

He will turn good eventually be at it offensive center or winger but to me his nothing special. Generally speaking the 2013 top players have been somewhat dissapointing.
Mackinnon, Barkov, Drouin, Jones, E.Lindholm and Nichuskin arent any better than any other years top choices. Best players from that 2013 so far have been Monahan and Ristolainen. But im glad other people see now why some have been calling out Mackinnon for his play for 2 seasons now. Now that the offense is dead too people start noticing how much holes his got in his game aswell. He will end good not top10 center material thou.

LOL yeah even while he hasn't been playing as well as he could, he's STILL on pace for 53 points...as a 19 year old. A lot of players would take that.

Oh yeah, Monahan is awesome...

He controls nothing...he's always in the right spot to tap in a goal, I'll give him that. Chris Gratton was the same way, early on in his career.

 

[frivolousz21]

The avs should have never signed Iginla, Stuart, and Briere.

At least Danny is only one year.

But having 9 million tied up between Stuart and Iginla for two more seasons after this one is really awful.

Right now the avs project at 60 million salary to start next season.


It could take them 3-4 years to fully address the defense.

That is not good.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

The avs should have never signed Iginla, Stuart, and Briere.

At least Danny is only one year.

But having 9 million tied up between Stuart and Iginla for two more seasons after this one is really awful.

Right now the avs project at 60 million salary to start next season.


It could take them 3-4 years to fully address the defense.

That is not good.

The Avs project at 60M next year...with a 21 man roster and no one to re-sign. There's plenty of wiggle room, and none of those contracts are holding the Avs back from doing anything. If a Sekera, Staal, or Methot makes it to UFA, they'll have plenty of cap space to make a reasonable offer, especially if the cap goes up to 73M.

 

[Holyhell]

New responsibilities as #2 C with Stastny gone. He's getting a fair amount of defensive zone starts. It looks like Roy is actively trying to give him tougher situations to play in. I think if the coaching staff wanted him to continue on an offensive tear, he would be at RW again, like he was a lot of last year.

Not worried... would like to see him at RW, if the top two scoring lines can get their **** together, the Avs could pull out of this slow start.

 

[The Macho King]

I said he had the opportunity to play with Stamkos and lost it after not performing to Cooper's standards. (lol, read my posts my ass).

I don't know how this thread became about Drouin, but wtf are you talking about re: Drouin? Drouin was never given the opportunity to play with Stamkos - for two games he played with him when we were missing four forwards out of our line up and Cooper had no other options (same reason why it took so damn long for Kucherov to get top 6 time). Drouin should be playing beside Stamkos right now based on both his play, and the lack of quality play from Stamkos' current LW.

It's not about fans knowing more than coaches - it's about coaches not being infallible. Fans can see **** that GMs/coaches may miss. Happens all the time. Just like most people saw signing Iginla to a three year contract on a speed-based team as an obvious mistake, or signing Tanner Glass at all, or any number of things. Coaches make bad decisions all the time - it doesn't mean the person pointing out those bad decisions could do the job better.

Hell, I could have told Steven Spielberg that casting Shia Lebouf in an Indiana Jones movie was a stupid move, but that doesn't mean I'm a better filmmaker than him.

 

[Taak19]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1711929&highlight=mackinnon

Ahh good times.

Seriously though he's too talented not to come over this slump. He will be just fine..

I wouldn't be surprised if he posted ppg, but I'd only be willing to say I expect 65-70.

Seems crazy now I suppose.

 

[eklunds source]

This is true... and his -12 not -8... ranked 737 out of 753 in entire nhl +/-

Just how horse ***** is +/-?
+/- is the worst statistic in hockey

 

[Sojourn]

This would be a decent season for him so far had he spent last year in juniors and had this as his rookie year.

You mean if he hadn't come into the NHL as an 18 year old, win the Calder, and pretty much impress the hell out of everyone? Go figure. Except he did do those things, and you can't erase those expectations.

 

[tucker3434]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1711929&highlight=mackinnon

Ahh good times.

Seriously though he's too talented not to come over this slump. He will be just fine..

60 points. He'll be a bit better, but without stastny, he'll be facing tougher match ups. Year 3 will be his breakout year.

I was on record. Think I'm pretty close so far.

 

[Sam Spade]

Just how horse ***** is +/-?
+/- is the worst statistic in hockey

+\- only matters when talking about Russians.

 

[Mikeaveli]

If he wasn't a liability he would be in the lineup every night.

No need to make excuses for a 19 year old.

I'm pretty sure he's less of a liability than Morrow (who happens to only be dangerous when Drouin is on his line), who's been scratched a total of once.

 

[Wrath]

Seems crazy now I suppose.

Nah I'd say 65-70 is easily within grasp if Mackinnon and/or the Avs warm up a bit.

 

[ANewHope]

18 points in 28 games so far. Not like he's completely having a brutal year. Not like the Yak situation at all. He's still had his stretches, but there's obviously been issues. Issues not everybody seen coming after his rookie year/playoffs. Doesn't help everybody on the Avalanche is more or less slumping offensively.

Everything Avs has been a mess this year pretty much.

 

[dahrougem2]

The offensive numbers are down because Stastny is not there, simple as that. MacKinnon was given free reign last season to go all-out on the offense because Stastny is such a responsible centre. Now with him being gone, MacKinnon moves over to centre and needs to be a more responsible two-way player. Obviously it will take a toll on his offense with him only being 19 years old because he is still learning the game at the NHL level. Remember, he hardly played centre last season. I'd say roughly 85% of the season he was playing RW. Not that he's learning a new position, but he is still getting adjusted to facing tougher match-ups, and having to be more responsible in the defensive end down low.

He will turn it around. The kid is a special player. Not Crosby special like some in the media made him out to be, but special nonetheless. If this is a struggling season for him, as a 19 year old with 18 points in 28 games, I'd love to see what a dominating season is for him.

 

[frivolousz21]

The Avs project at 60M next year...with a 21 man roster and no one to re-sign. There's plenty of wiggle room, and none of those contracts are holding the Avs back from doing anything. If a Sekera, Staal, or Methot makes it to UFA, they'll have plenty of cap space to make a reasonable offer, especially if the cap goes up to 73M.

So they will be average at best going with the same defense?