Value of: Nathan Horton
- Thread starter Filthy Dangles
- Start date
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Reilly and Gardiner are the only solid top 4D pieces you have. You are getting good production from Hainsey and Zaitsev is a good top 4D support piece. But are you building a cup contender of just a playoff contender? Do you think that D stands up well against the Lightning, Bruins, Jets, Preds if you get to a final 8 or final 4?
And you are planing on letting Gardiner and Hainsey walk to make the cap work. The point is winning a cup right?
I respect your hope but man, that D you showed won't win you a cup. Please, tell us how the Pens won and how Tavares and Mattews are as good as Crosby and Malkin. It's the same false copy cat hope the Habs have with using the Vegas speed and high tempo strategy at the moment.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Empoleon8771
Registered User
So wait, is Zaitsev good again or does he still suck? I can't keep track at this point, I thought Leafs fans said he sucked in the off-season.
If the Leafs let Gardiner and Hainsey walk and just replace them by promoting guys like Dermott and Ozhiganov into the top-4, I'd comfortably say their defense is bad. Basically everyone beyond Rielly would be playing in too high of a role considering their ability.
If the Leafs let Gardiner and Hainsey walk and just replace them by promoting guys like Dermott and Ozhiganov into the top-4, I'd comfortably say their defense is bad. Basically everyone beyond Rielly would be playing in too high of a role considering their ability.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Sure it will! Just watch.
And LOL at your Tavares/Matthews compared to Crosby/Malkin comment. Who said they were? They don't have to be!!
You're not gonna love it when they win, tho.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Liljegren is 19 and Sandin is 18. They have potential to be good but that will take time before they can be trusted in a top 4D role. Why do you think Tampa has Sergachev playing bottom paring?
Dermott has 1 assist in 12 games playing 17 or 18 min's a game. He is also a -5 on a team that is +11 in goal differential and 5th in goals for. Does this look like a guy that can be trusted in a top 4D role at age 22 next year?
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Sure.
Honestly......our offence is so damn good, that we spend most of our time in the other zone these days. We can easily do well with a top-4 consisting of Rielly, Zaitsev, Dermott, Borgman or Liljegren next year. Rosen is also knocking on the door.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Sure it will! Just watch.
And LOL at your Tavares/Matthews compared to Crosby/Malkin comment. Who said they were? They don't have to be!!
You're not gonna love it when they win, tho.
Listen man, I support any Canadian team bring the cup back to Canada. I would cheer for the Jets more than the Leafs but if the Leafs are the only team left in the playoffs, I will hope they bring the cup back to Canadian soil. I only hate the Leafs when the Habs play them! lol.
That D you showed would take a major step back from what you have this year. Hope vs Reality
Honestly, I'm just providing constructive criticism.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Meh. I disagree. Gardiner is a tire fire, defensively, and Hainsey is pretty close to "done" anyway.
TEAM defence with extreme offence will carry a lot of the weight.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Sure.
Honestly......our offence is so damn good, that we spend most of our time in the other zone these days. We can easily do well with a top-4 consisting of Rielly, Zaitsev, Dermott, Borgman or Liljegren next year. Rosen is also knocking on the door.
There will always be surprises/disappointments with prospects. You can hope they all pan out but its not reality
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
If I was the Leafs, I would re-sign Hainsey for 1 year in a bottom pairing support role. But I would not keep Gardiner as he will cost too much and you don't need offensive defenseman, you need reliable defenseman who can move the puck to your centers in transition. This is why I think Petry fits. Not even sure if Bergevin is willing to trade him but we are stacked on the right side. Weber/Petry/Juulsen/Brook/Fleury. Juulsen is very close to being ready to replace Petry
Leafs need RD where their is a shortage in the NHL. Habs have the depth in that area.
I have also heard of Nylander for Faulk+. I talked to some of my Leaf fans friends last night about this. This is not the guy you need on the right side. You need a guy who is a beast in his own end, is mobile, has puck moving skills, and can clear the front of the net for Anderson.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
But I'm not. I'm hoping ONE of them does.
Borgamn is already ready and is often with the team.
Rielly, Zaitsev, Ozhiganov and Dermott are all already good(Ozighanov is playing lights out). Borgman and whoever can fill in for the remaining spots.
I pencilled Liljegren into he top 4 but if he's a bottom pairing guy next year, that's fine too. The first 4 I mentioned are already doing great.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
I understand. But how do they stack up against the other top 10 cup contenders? They look ok in the regular season but what happens when you face the Lightning, Bruins, Preds, Jets, Caps, etc in the playoffs?
Can the handle it? Maybe. But you better hope so.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Ozhiganov isn't even playing #6 minutes and Dermott is only playing #5 minutes. Zaitsev is also getting caved while playing fringe #2/3 minutes. Borgman wasn't even playing 14 minutes a night last year and he's in the AHL this year. I think you're overestimating those guys pretty severely.
They don't even look "okay" in the regular season, to be honest. There are questions or red flags with literally everyone beyond Rielly on that defense. I can't see any team willingly going into a season where their entire bottom-4 has 1 season or less of NHL experience.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
LOL. All ANY team can ask for is that their players look good in the regular season. Then, experience, hard work, and yes, HOPE come into play.
Would I love to have Drew Doughty on the team, in place of Travis Dermott? Sure. I'd also love a toilet made of gold but its just not in the cards, is it? But Rielly is SUPER talented, and the rest look good. And we have some very nice D prospects about to arrive and one or two of them "should" pan out!!
No thanks to Petry. Overrated.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Oh wow, a 15 game sample size where they also have Gardiner and Hainsey playing over 20 minutes a night totally proves you right! How could I have been so naive?!?!?!
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Petry is not as much overrated vs Gardiner, Hainsey, Dermott, Zaitsev, Ozhigonov. He would be your 2nd best guy on the back end behind Rielly. Petry for 3 years at $4M is a steal. Hey, I tried. Good luck getting a guy just as good as Petry for $4M on a 3 year term.
Petry has 12 pts in 15 games. But hey, Gardiner has 8, Hainsey has 6, Zaitsev has 2, Dermott has 1 and they play on a much better offensive team.
Petry is overrated?
. I just wonder how many points Gardiner gets on the Habs and how many Petry gets on the Leafs?
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Holymakinaw
Registered User
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Pointless to talk with you, isn't it? You only hear YOUR voice.
I mean, pot meet kettle? This is some massive projection going on in here.
If you think that defense is good enough, more power for you I guess. I just think everyone else would agree that running with that defense is a massive risk that could easily end up with the Leafs having one of the worst defenses in all of hockey.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Pointless to talk with you, isn't it? You only hear YOUR voice.
The voice you should hear is the reality comments people are trying to tell you.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Meh. Facts are facts. The Leafs don't give up many goals any more because they have Marner, Kadri, Matthews, Tavares, Rielly........they spend most of their time in the opposing team's zone and that will continue. The D is average but will have good stats. And they'll be more than fine next year, as they rely on a few more of the kids to step up.
I can't make you guys accept that.
But it is reality.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Meh. Facts are facts. The Leafs don't give up many goals any more because they have Marner, Kadri, Matthews, Tavares, Rielly........they spend most of their time in the opposing team's zone and that will continue. The D is average but will have good stats. And they'll be more than fine next year, as they rely on a few more of the kids to step up.
I can't make you guys accept that.
But it is reality.
The reality after 15 games is the Leafs have allowed 40 goals which is 7th in the league. Can then sustain it? It's possible and there is a factor of having a strong center depth and sustained pressure a the other end of the ice.
But like I said, the point is winning a cup. I'm measuring that D against cup contending rosters and your ability to beat them in a 7 game series.
Playoff pretenders vs Cup contenders.
If we can sign Nylander, all 4 lines will be stronger. You have AM, JT, Naz and Lindhom as 4 centers. Leafs would love to have a defense like Nashville, but that's not going to happen. Our strength is Offense. Also, I am really high on Sandin, not so sure about Liljeren. We could sign Hainsey in one year deal and give the younger guys time to settle. Dermott is also becoming a good option. Babcock isn't giving him any pp time and he is playing in penalty kill. He is learning and I think he will be a top 4 defense man, look at Rielly's numbers in 2016-17 (27 points and was -20). Babcock didn't give him any powerplay and killed penaties to focus on his defense. So as Leafs fan we know what Dermott is going through and I think he will round out as a good defense man, definitely not close to Reilly.
