Player Discussion Nate Schmidt

[I am toxic]

Oh Im not giving up on him.

But the thought, that maybe Vegas knew what they were giving away, has crossed my mind.

It's a fair point, but I don't think it stands to scrutiny. Maybe there was something on HFVegas when this went down, but I don't go to other boards (for some reason, I irritate people, don't know why).

Vegas has had one part of a season where they - quite simply - sucked, and it coincided with Schmidt's absence.

Reports in Van are that he's also good to have around off the ice, unless people are deliberately trying to mislead us.

But taking all the info, seeing the structure that the coaching staff has provided, and this one is pretty straightforward at this point in time.

If we bring in a Gallant, have the team establish a good structure, and Nate still doesn't shine, then would be the time to consider this further.

 

[MS]

He hasn't looked nearly as dynamic as in Vegas.

But that said:

- he's playing some of the toughest minutes on the team (39% o-zone starts) and turning out the best possession numbers on the team. And is a +3.

- he's also played a ton of PK minutes with very good results there. 5.8 GA/60 is excellent, and he's a big reason why our PK has actually been decent.

- unlike Tyler Minors, he hasn't taken a single penalty this year.

Like, he's been the team's best defender and is doing a good job. But is playing in a system that's an absolute mess, and doesn't look nearly as comfortable as he did in Vegas.

 

[Nucker101]

He’s been our best dman, this “system” just sucks

 

[timw33]

Why move him when we can get a better coach with an actual system and a competant GM to surround him with better support?

Ask @timw33 - it may have to do with Hughes and Petey coming off ELC's and needing the space, along with covid related salary constraints.

If we want any long term flexibility to build around our 97' to 00' born players we're going to need to unload as much of our long term contracts for players older than 29/30. Schmidt is probably the most movable of those deals, and we can further juice the return by doing a bit of retention and offering up a legit top-4 Dman to a contender at say, $4.75MM.

Building a core around Schmidt, 29, isn't the goal. Building a core around the 99' born Hughes is. There is just such an absolute dearth of sub 26 year old Dmen on this team that we're stuck with 3 30+ year olds making $6MM and that structure just isn't going to work if we're going to compete.

 

[mathonwy]

Comparing Schmidt versus Tanev is apples and oranges.

Schmidt is good at playing well on a well constructed team.

Tanev is good at playing well on a burning dumpster fire.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

If we want any long term flexibility to build around our 97' to 00' born players we're going to need to unload as much of our long term contracts for players older than 29/30. Schmidt is probably the most movable of those deals, and we can further juice the return by doing a bit of retention and offering up a legit top-4 Dman to a contender at say, $4.75MM.

Building a core around Schmidt, 29, isn't the goal. Building a core around the 99' born Hughes is. There is just such an absolute dearth of sub 26 year old Dmen on this team that we're stuck with 3 30+ year olds making $6MM and that structure just isn't going to work if we're going to compete.

Why isn’t building a core around Schmidt not “the goal”? He’s only 29 and has been our best defenceman by far. A late bloomer as well, he probably still has another ~4 or 5 years at this level because of the miles (lack of) on his body.

 

[Regal]

If we want any long term flexibility to build around our 97' to 00' born players we're going to need to unload as much of our long term contracts for players older than 29/30. Schmidt is probably the most movable of those deals, and we can further juice the return by doing a bit of retention and offering up a legit top-4 Dman to a contender at say, $4.75MM.

Building a core around Schmidt, 29, isn't the goal. Building a core around the 99' born Hughes is. There is just such an absolute dearth of sub 26 year old Dmen on this team that we're stuck with 3 30+ year olds making $6MM and that structure just isn't going to work if we're going to compete.

I think it's fair to consider the idea of trading him to get younger and gain cap space in the future as Pettersson and Hughes come into their primes, assuming this team isn't ready to be competitive the next couple years, though so much can happen in a couple seasons I don't know if it's a given he wouldn't be a part of the team contending. Your post seemed to me like you were worried that he would become a contract we would have to pay to get rid of due to how he's going to be perceived on a bad team, and not that he'll be moved with retention for a good deal because this team is that far away from contention, but I think I misunderstood you.

 

[timw33]

Why isn’t building a core around Schmidt not “the goal”? He’s only 29 and has been our best defenceman by far. A late bloomer as well, he probably still has another ~4 or 5 years at this level because of the miles (lack of) on his body.

Look, I'm just seeing a a place for us to get surplus value for a very likely hard rebuild we'll be forced into unless a new GM steps in tomorrow and starts just jettisoning all the junk immediately. Schmidt is someone we could get far more than we paid for him IMO—I can't say that about any other single piece on our roster which is a massive problem.

I do think our D core is completely lacking in quality pieces under 25 and is hurting us now and will hurt us long term—this may be Benning's biggest failings over the last 7 years.

 

[timw33]

I think it's fair to consider the idea of trading him to get younger and gain cap space in the future as Pettersson and Hughes come into their primes, assuming this team isn't ready to be competitive the next couple years, though so much can happen in a couple seasons I don't know if it's a given he wouldn't be a part of the team contending. Your post seemed to me like you were worried that he would become a contract we would have to pay to get rid of due to how he's going to be perceived on a bad team, and not that he'll be moved with retention for a good deal because this team is that far away from contention, but I think I misunderstood you.

On a team that was taking a step forward after last year, adding Schmidt to the group that made it a couple rounds in the playoffs made total sense, if you kept the core of the group that took them there. Looking at where this group is, I just wonder if we're best off wasting a few good years of Schmidt on non-competitive teams or getting a nice haul. Just thinking out loud mostly.

 

[I am toxic]

Why isn’t building a core around Schmidt not “the goal”? He’s only 29 and has been our best defenceman by far. A late bloomer as well, he probably still has another ~4 or 5 years at this level because of the miles (lack of) on his body.

Vancouver Canucks - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[I am toxic]

omfg, this team is a complete tire fire, and the only help on the effin horizon is . . . Podz.

This team will not be a contender until Schmidt is almost Edler's age.

I am Schmidt's biggest fan, as big as @MS, but if this team wants it's best shot at a Cup, it needs to build a long-term contender, and the only thing Schmidt can do while remaining a Canuck is give us a worse draft position.

Like, am I missing something? Even Mittens knows this, and he (she?) is napping most of the time.

 

[VanJack]

You have to feel just a twinge of sympathy for Schmidt....I realize he's making big money and the NHL life is hardly a bad one.

But the guy never wanted to be traded by Vegas in the first place. But was dumped when the Knights decided to embrace their latest 'boy toy' blueliner in Alex Pietrangelo. And of course with the difference in the tax structure (there basically isn't one in Las Vegas), he's taking a major revenue hit by coming north of the border.

Then the guy comes out of a structured Vegas system and has to adapt to this 'crash and burn' blueline on the Canucks. It'll take a lot longer than 15 games for him to adjust.

To his credit, the guy's a consummate pro....never complains...just tries to go out and do his job no matter who he's paired with.

But I agree with other posters....if this season goes completely off the rails, he'd be a huge piece for a contending team to add at the deadline. And if the Canucks are intent on imploding their bloated salary cap, he could get you some valuable picks/prospects.

Of course when was the last time Jimbo ever turned a valuable asset into anything decent at the trade deadline?

 

[MS]

omfg, this team is a complete tire fire, and the only help on the effin horizon is . . . Podz.

This team will not be a contender until Schmidt is almost Edler's age.

I am Schmidt's biggest fan, as big as @MS, but if this team wants it's best shot at a Cup, it needs to build a long-term contender, and the only thing Schmidt can do while remaining a Canuck is give us a worse draft position.

Like, am I missing something? Even Mittens knows this, and he (she?) is napping most of the time.

This team can and will turn around quickly when/if management and coaches are replaced by competent people. Much like the last year of Nonis, there are some good pieces but the whole thing is just a mess.

 

[Breakers]

You can't say that he is going to bring back a haul.

Only 5 teams in the league could afford Deangelo's contract.

The trade deadline is going to be very different with people not paying that much for assets when you can't even start practicing with youre new team assuming out of division if he was traded till 14 days later. It's a flat cap, and Vancouver is playing like sh)t

even if we took back a bad contract to make a trade, does that sound like something this owner has ever been willing to do?

He wouldn't bring back anything this year.

 

[ahmon]

He's not a top 15 dman in the league. Lol.

Skates well, good at transitioning the puck. But is not someone I would use to shutdown any teams top line.

He's a decent #3.

Probably best if you pair him up with a more stable dman. As he likes to try high risk plays from time to time.

Unfortunately on the canuck, he's either playing with Edler or Myers.

Hughes and Schmidt doesn't fit stylistically.

 

[Fatass]

He's not a top 15 dman in the league. Lol.

Skates well, good at transitioning the puck. But is not someone I would use to shutdown any teams top line.

He's a decent #3.

Probably best if you pair him up with a more stable dman. As he likes to try high risk plays from time to time.

Unfortunately on the canuck, he's either playing with Edler or Myers.

Hughes and Schmidt doesn't fit stylistically.

Schmidt and Tryamkin as a pair?

 

[lennor]

He’s been our best dman, this “system” just sucks

I don’t think the system sucks but we don’t have the horses. It’s a system built on skill and speed and unfortunately many of the bottom 6 and dmen don’t have that. Travis seems unwilling to stop his square peg round hole approach.

 

[Nucker101]

I don’t think the system sucks but we don’t have the horses. It’s a system built on skill and speed and unfortunately many of the bottom 6 and dmen don’t have that. Travis seems unwilling to stop his square peg round hole approach.

Apparently he was consulted on signings like Beagle and Roussel so either way, he only has himself to blame if he gets fired

 

[bossram]

He hasn't looked nearly as dynamic as in Vegas.

But that said:

- he's playing some of the toughest minutes on the team (39% o-zone starts) and turning out the best possession numbers on the team. And is a +3.

- he's also played a ton of PK minutes with very good results there. 5.8 GA/60 is excellent, and he's a big reason why our PK has actually been decent.

- unlike Tyler Minors, he hasn't taken a single penalty this year.

Like, he's been the team's best defender and is doing a good job. But is playing in a system that's an absolute mess, and doesn't look nearly as comfortable as he did in Vegas.

Good summary. He's clearly been the Canucks best defenseman. He's the only one above 50% scoring chance differential at 5 on 5 (Edler is second at 47%) and doing it in the toughest minutes.

It's hard to look good defensively on a horrific defensive outfit. Couple that Vegas' system was much more friendly to defensemen, and yah it makes sense Schmidt looks uncomfortable. But I think he's done as about as well as could be expected.

 

[F A N]

So what do we do with Schmidt? Keep or unload? Like most here, I'm a bit disappointed with him but he is handling all the tough minutes and he seems like a guy who might do better on a winning team and better support (not saying he's a passenger). I view him as an asset. Pretty sure we can get at least a 3rd back.

He's a left shot D who seems to be at his best playing the right side. This is significant because the guys we want to see more of (Rathbone, Juolevi) play on the left side where we also have Hughes. Right now we're looking at Myers, Hamonic (who is a UFA), Woo (who is not ready), and Chatfield as the team's right side Dmen.

Of course if we can unload Myers' contract and acquire a right side replacement it changes the hockey game but absent that, Schmidt is a useful player.

Schmidt will be 30 with 4 years left on a contract that pays him $5.95M AAV.

 

[VanJack]

Schmidt's contract will be a lot easier to stomach than Myers, going forward. At least he still has some value around the league and could be traded.

Myers contract, on the other hand, will morph into the d-man version of Louie Eriksson. Untradeable, unmovable and another taxi squad tire-fire by the time it runs its course.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Just putting it out there
Anyone will look worse when playing under a bad coach
Green isn’t a good coach

 

[F A N]

Just putting it out there
Anyone will look worse when playing under a bad coach
Green isn’t a good coach

Let's bring in Gerald Gallant.

 

[ahmon]

Trade him, age doesn't really fit. And he's not very good defensively.

Build defense around Hughes and Rathbone.

Ideally both Myers/ Schmidt are moved out.

 

[lawrence]

He’s been our best dman, this “system” just sucks

what system? Quite generous to even put the that label. There doesn’t seem to be a system here, reminds me of the time Tom Renny was our coach. No system.