Mathradio
Drive for 25
Verot cracked 300 PIMs in 2009-2010 and there was only one time where he cracked 500 PIMs, in 2007-2008, before the Russian Superleague became the KHL. Last year, no one cracked even 200 PIMs in Vityaz.
Verot cracked 300 PIMs in 2009-2010 and there was only one time where he cracked 500 PIMs, in 2007-2008, before the Russian Superleague became the KHL. Last year, no one cracked even 200 PIMs in Vityaz.
Steelhead16
Registered User
They did have to tone it down after the brawl in Jan. when the league threatened give them the boot. Gratton, Verot and Sugden would have all been in the 400 min range had they played the whole season. Gratton had 170 PIMS in 24 games, Verot 169 in 20 and Sugden 84 in just 9 games.
I was exaggerating slightly obviously, but look at the PIMs per game Vityaz goons put up:]
Verot
07/08 - 511 PIM in 43 games (11.9 PIM/G, in RSL though)
08/09 - 168 PIM in 28 games (6 PIM/G)
09/10 - 374 PIM in 34 games (11 PIM/G)
10/11 - 182 PIM in 20 games (9.1 PIM/G)
Josh Gratton
10/11 - 170 PIM in 24 games (7.1 PIM/G)
Chris Simon
08/09 - 263 PIM in 40 games (6.6 PIM/G)
09/10 - 110 PIM in 30 games (3.7 PIM/G)
10/11 - 130 PIM in 43 games (3.0 PIM/G)
That's insane, these guys are all averaging 3-12 PIM/G, that's 162-648 PIM if they were to play a full 54 game KHL season. Last year Vityaz's 3 goons combined to average 19.2 PIM/G, a full period of PIMs for just 3 players, on average! Though obviously, due to massive suspensions, none of these goons were able to play the full season.
I wonder if any one in the KHL will resign him. Gratton, Dawes and Boyd all went to Astana. They like physical play there. Room for Darcy?
Squirrel in the Hole
Be the best squirrel in the hole
You are blowing that out of porportion .
10 fights alone are 100 pim. That is done in todays NHL in 40 games or less. In the KHL they also tacked misconducts to fights (I think they were allowed one fight last season right?) before they changed rules, so that flares up the pims even more. (Doesnt it count as 15 pims?). It also doesnt account for all the pims in one incident. (The bench clearer could easily rack up 30+ pim for 1 player) Its no different than the NHL/AHL. Its just finese euros (who never fight over there) that make the "gooning up" look worse than what it is.If it happens in the NHL where most teams can actually defend themselves, it would be a classic and not a "disgrace" to the game.
Verot was a little crazy over there though lol.
* You are also one of the few hf members I really respect since you seem to know your stuff from what Ive read on the rink board, so im not trying to single you out because you dont like gooning lol.*
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Agreed that Simon, Verot and Gratton on one team in the NHL would not be insane, they'd be held in check because every team has enforcers/goons as tough or tougher than them, but in the KHL it's ridiculous. In the NHL these guys would abide by "the code," and goon it up mostly vs other goons, they'd just be like, say, the Islanders were last year, a tough team but not crazy. But the KHL is more of a finesse league, and these guys are just goons unleashed over there, they don't have to abide by any code or any sorts of limits to their behaviour, it seems like they barely try to win games and just focus on hurting the other team to provide their own fans for entertainment. Vityaz Chekov have literally finished either last place or within 2 points of last in all of their KHL seasons, seems like they've abandoned trying to win games in favor of trying to attract fans through pure violence. And it's not even working, pretty sure their finances are terrible, with very little fan support.You are blowing that out of porportion .
If it happens in the NHL where most teams can actually defend themselves, it would be a classic and not a "disgrace" to the game.
Verot was a little crazy over there though lol.
* You are also one of the few hf members I really respect since you seem to know your stuff from what Ive read on the rink board, so im not trying to single you out because you dont like gooning lol.*
This kind of stuff is an embarrassment to the game IMO, especially in a more finesse league like the KHL:
Just a punch of goons pounding the crap out of some skill players, a pre-meditated attack 6 seconds into a game. Serious hurt a number of them if I recall correctly, like broken orbital bones, concussions, etc. You would think an ugly incident like this would be a wakeup call, where the team says "hmm, let's change our ways," but apparently not, since they just signed Yabo and Mirasty for the very same purpose. Bet we see a similar incident this year.
Re: the above incident, it's not even the first time they've pulled such a stunt against this very team, earlier Yityaz actually had a game called/cancelled because of their out of control goonery/beatdowns on Omsk. You'd think they would show a little class with Omsk, since it was arguably their fault that Cherepanov died, but instead they just goon it up even more.
(Omsk were playing in Chekov, when Cherepanov collapsed with heart problems. Teams are supposed to have ambulances with defibrillators at the rink, but Vityaz had sent home their ambulance home early to save money, it took 15 minutes for it to get back to the arena, and their defibrillator was broken, so he couldn't be treated till they got him to the hospital around 40 minutes after his collapse, when it was too late, and he died in hospital)
The KHL has been around for 3 years, in those years Vityaz have racked up 1760, 2017 and 1270 PIM, with the "low" number this year only because their biggest goons were suspended for much of the season. Still, no other team in KHL history has managed to hit even that low number (1270 PIMs) in one season, they are completely in a class of their own in terms of goonery, basically playing a different game than the rest of the league. To me they are a disgrace, I may seem biased against them but I think it's for a good reason.
I know that the money earned by these players overseas is tax free, but when they come back to the US do they get taxed?
The last bit is really sick. Im not defending the club to an extent but more the 3 players(not really a fan of Verot). They were brought in to do the dirty, (sometimes over the top nasty) work. They were worth every penny they were paid to do. Since, like you said, the league is more finese based, what were they supposed to do with little competion in terms of enforcers? How were they supposed to justify thier contracts? Score goals?
Way too much hate gets thrown towards these type of players, especially on hf. Respect should be shown no matter if you dont think they belong in the sport. (Im not a fan of the word goon, one of the main reasons I got into this)
Im probably one of the few people that has no pitty (well some) for the team on the recieving end of the attack. Management knew well ahead of the game the Vityaz was going to dress those 3 (no one could of predicted the attack, granted) and there were plenty of ex AHL enforcers on the market to keep them in check. (Flinn would of been great, and cheap.) A fools mistake and it cost them. (It was managements fault they didnt have proper medical supplies, I dont see why the players would feel too much guilt since they, as far as I know, played little part in his collapse.)
Now is it hockey? Hell no and could be disgraceful in many peoples eyes (not me though lol). But me and my sick mind did enjoy watching it and would rather watch a "goonfest" then a pass happy game sprinkled with dekes.
Even though my interest in the finese style is growing.The KHL is young and more N.A. style hockey is getting merged with the euro style. Much like the NHL in reverse. Im going guess that Vityaz was trying to be the modern day variation of the Broad Street Bullies and use intimidation to thier advantage. I think we will slowly see the KHL (if they last long enough) adopt a more physical style of play if Vityaz does find success with this strategy.
Now, hopefully other teams will go out and get fire to fight fire. Yabo and Mirasty are going to make those 3 seem like soft wittle bunnies.
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Milos Krasic
Best Serbian Footballer (2009) / Serie A Winner
- Jul 1, 2008
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The KHL has a foreigner limit for Russian teams. Avangard would have to get rid of Jagr, Cervenka, Skoula, Vampola, or Ramo (players who can actually play hockey) in order to sign some goon for a few matchups against Vityaz. That would make no sense as they would have no use for such a player at any other time. It would be a lot easier if Vityaz would just quit signing these guys.
Didnt know they had a foreigner limit. Shouldve guessed it though since it is Russia. (no pun intended). I still would of thought Jagr would be exempt from that rule since he was one of KHL's biggest stars and his native country was part?? of the former Soviet Union for a while.?
Always thought (possibly false) Russia considered the breakaway countries part of the motherland still.
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I can see what you're saying about the league just reaching some natural equilibrium in terms of toughness/dirtiness, but really that equilibrium is artificially set. If there were zero penalties or suspensions of any kind, you'd have a completely different game, one where guys were two handing each other in the head with regularity, constantly hooking, slashing, etc. An equilibrium would be reached with enforcers, but it would be a very ugly equilibrium. Likewise, if you banned players for life with any minor infraction, you'd get the opposite equilibrium, overly soft hockey in the form of shinny. The league controls where the equilibrium will lie based on its rules, suspensions, fines, etc., and they try to chose an equilibrium that emphasizes speed and skill with a solid edge of toughness and physicality. Vityaz Chekhov sacrifice playing real hockey in an attempt to attract fans to some sort of sideshow goon fest, and it doesn't even work (most people want to see real hockey, not some no-skill goon pounding the **** out of Martin Skoula off the opening faceoff), should every team in the league be forced to put out some underskilled goon team just to be able to defend themselves?The last bit is really sick. Im not defending the club to an extent but more the 3 players(not really a fan of Verot). They were brought in to do the dirty, (sometimes over the top nasty) work. They were worth every penny they were paid to do. Since, like you said, the league is more finese based, what were they supposed to do with little competion in terms of enforcers? How were they supposed to justify thier contracts? Score goals?
Way too much hate gets thrown towards these type of players, especially on hf. Respect should be shown no matter if you dont think they belong in the sport. (Im not a fan of the word goon, one of the main reasons I got into this)
Im probably one of the few people that has no pitty (well some) for the team on the recieving end of the attack. Management knew well ahead of the game the Vityaz was going to dress those 3 (no one could of predicted the attack, granted) and there were plenty of ex AHL enforcers on the market to keep them in check. (Flinn would of been great, and cheap.) A fools mistake and it cost them. (It was managements fault they didnt have proper medical supplies, I dont see why the players would feel too much guilt since they, as far as I know, played little part in his collapse.)
Now is it hockey? Hell no and could be disgraceful in many peoples eyes (not me though lol). But me and my sick mind did enjoy watching it and would rather watch a "goonfest" then a pass happy game sprinkled with dekes.
The KHL is young and more N.A. style hockey is getting merged with the euro style. Much like the NHL in reverse. Im going guess that Vityaz was trying to be the modern day variation of the Broad Street Bullies and use intimidation to thier advantage. I think we will slowly see the KHL (if they last long enough) adopt a more physical style of play if Vityaz does find success with this strategy.
Now, hopefully other teams will go out and get fire to fight fire. Yabo and Mirasty are going to make those 3 seem like soft wittle bunnies.
I guess the main thing I dislike about goons is my experiences playing with/against them. Most guys you play against are there to win games and compete hard, I definitely liked the physical aspect of the game (back when I played contact), and am all for fights that break out between skilled players when a game gets heated, hockey's mix of skill and toughness is a big part of what makes it such a fun sport to watch and play. But there's another sort of player out there that is simply playing a different game, not too interested in the flow of play and scoring and preventing goals, there are players who cross the line between hard competition and simple violence. Especially in high school hockey I would play the odd guy who constantly hits from behind, elbows to the head, gives cross checks or 2-handers to heads, hits people into the crossbars, etc. Saw many friends and teammates over the years go down with concussions, broken collar bones, separated shoulders, etc. from these guys who are simply goons out for violence, usually underskilled, oversized guys who are barely playing the actual game and just taking out their frustrations. Playing hard and physical and occasionally crossing the line is one thing, but the players pulling dirty moves virtually every shift and basically ignoring the puck is another. Normally you find 1 such player for every 10 teams or so, when I look at Vityaz Chekhov I see a team chock full of these guys by design, in a league where most are trying to play a skilled game, and I think it's an embarrassment.
Also, I disagree that the KHL is a young league, it's really just the newest name for a league that has been around in some form since the 1940s (first it was the Soviet League, then the International Hockey League, then the Russian Hockey League, then the Russian Superleague, now the KHL). Some teams come and go, but there's a core group of teams that have been around for a long time, it's just the newest form of a league that has been around for over 60 years. They've played their brand of hockey for a long time, it's an entertaining brand of hockey that's very popular in Russia/Europe, IMO the league should just make good on their previous threats and just kick Vityaz Chekhov out of the league if they continue to just focus on violence without much regard for actually competing at hockey. The Broad Street Bullies, while extremely dirty, were at least ALSO a talented team who used violence to win hockey games, Vityaz Chekhov are essentially garbage by design and playing a different sport, they're not chosing skill AND grit, they're choosing grit INSTEAD of skill, trying to scrape together a few UFC type fans with their regular dirty play.
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Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
Its a doubtful rumor at this point(on elite prospects) but I heard this team was looking at Kip Brennan
http://translate.google.com/transla...ww.belarushockey.com/khl/news_list/news19860/
http://translate.google.com/transla...ww.belarushockey.com/khl/news_list/news19860/
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Mathradio
Drive for 25
They dont need to but I certainly wouldnt be against it.
Nothing you said in this post I disagree with, It all just comes down to each persons preference on what they consider tolerable. As someone who has never played ice hockey (played some roller hockey on the street a few times), I really need the physical stuff (not necessarily fighting, but checking and battles in front of the net, corners, dirty sickwork (like Pronger, Briere, most pre lock out players), to keep me engaged in the game, the fineses stuff just does not completely do it for me like it would someone who played the game and understand more than I do. Forgot the KHL was the Super League in the past, I really dont follow Euro leagues very closely.
I will always remember Brennan owning Mike Valley on that 1 show. Seemed to be more on the losing side of fights when he got called up to the NHL.
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Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
Mathradio
Drive for 25
I'm afraid to mention this name but...what about Todd Bertuzzi?
Bertuzzi didn't play for Vityaz...
Sports Enthusiast
Not Here To Be Liked
I thought you were speaking in general, my bad. I was honestly kidding though about him being a goon(thats why I put a wink in there)
Fair enough, I like physical play too (both as a fan, and as a player when I used to play contact hockey), but I like it more in the flow of the game (true battles for the puck/position), as opposed to guys who simply go out headhunting every shift and essentially ignore the puck. It's not like the KHL isn't physical, plenty of hits, puck battles, etc., it's just a bit less physical (larger ice + fewer guys who focus primarily on physical stuff), with less fighting. Think more Olympic style hockey (especially when played on international sized rinks), still plenty of physicality, but less goonery. A bit slower, a bit less skilled, more emphasis on positional defense, less forechecking, the hockey isn't as good/entertaining/high level from the few games I've seen, but it's still real good hockey regardless. I have zero problems with teams that simply use physical play to help them win games, in the KHL or in any league, but I do have a problem with a team that will ignore winning games (to a certain extent) and just sign a bunch of goons to beat the **** out of skilled players in a league that traditionally is fairly low on fighters, in some pathetic attempt to attract fans with their sideshow. IMO it cheapens the league, and the sport in general.They dont need to but I certainly wouldnt be against it.
Forgot the KHL was the Super League in the past, I really dont follow Euro leagues very closely.
I will always remember Brennan owning Mike Valley on that 1 show. Seemed to be more on the losing side of fights when he got called up to the NHL.
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Blade Runner
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2007
- 183
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Vityaz lost 4:11, but Nasty and Yabo kicked some ass:
http://www.hotice.ru/events/photo/1...CTION_ID=&MID=27397&result=reply#message27397
http://www.hotice.ru/events/photo/1...CTION_ID=&MID=27397&result=reply#message27397
Mirasty lost that fight.
11:4
This one? You think he lost this fight?
Just because he ended up on top doesn't mean Mirasty won. His motorcycle visor ate most of Svitov's bombs.
That said, I wish nothing but the worst to Yabo, Mirasty and the rest of Vityaz.
