NAHL Expansion 2019-2020

Discussion in 'All other USA Amateur, USHL, NAHL, USNTDP etc.' started by Barclay Donaldson, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tatooine
    NAHL team in Lewiston, Maine approved for the 2019-20 season

    NAHL team in New Mexico approved for the 2019-20 season

    The NAHL announced today that they were expanding into longtime target, Lewiston, Maine. The Maine Nordiques will start play next year with the same owner and facility as the Lewiston/Auburn Nordiques of the NA3HL. Joining them next year will be the New Mexico Ice Wolves playing in Albuquerque as part of the South Division. Ownership sounds similar to the Maryland Black Bears, with ownership owning and investing money into revamping the rink, and dedicated to growing youth hockey.

    The L/A Nordiques currently average about 500 fans per game, which is fairly good considering it's the NA3 and the only junior hockey market in New England to remotely garner any fan interest. The rink and market have been continuously linked with an eastward expansion first by the USHL and then with the NAHL ever since the Lewiston MAINEiacs of the QMJHL folded. Will be very good for the Eastern Division considering the only two teams that rely on ticket sales rather than other forms of income are the Jamestown Rebels and Johnstown Tomahawks. The first year Maryland Black Bears have occasionally had a respectable crowd. But the NJ Titans, NE Generals, and WBS Knights play in front of empty seats every game, despite what the official attendance figures might say.

    Interesting move by the NAHL in New England. It's clearly attempting to block the tuition free Twin City Thunder that will start play next year 10 minutes away for the USPHL-NCDC. Expansion was expected to be limited since it seemed like the NAHL was happy with the scheduling and infrastructural advantages that comes with having even divisional play, in addition to avoiding further watering down the talent pool. This only increases speculation that the NAHL is going to add one or two franchises in Alaska to help the viability of a resurgent Kenai and the model franchise Fairbanks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  2. JDogindy Jerk

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    838
    Trophy Points:
    110
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Sales Clerk/College Student
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    If this is the case, then does this mean one of those other three East Division teams could be folding after the season?
     
  3. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tatooine
    I highly doubt it. They all have dedicated ownership and things usually leak very quickly if teams are in trouble, much like with Kenai, Philadelphia, and Wichita Falls.

    I don't think they'd fold because I don't think ownership expects them to make money. I know WBS and NJ Titans are owned by their rinks, which essentially removes one of the two biggest expenditures of a team: ice time. The other biggest, travel, is very reasonable for both outside of the occasional showcase or non-division game. (Revolution Ice Centre in Jenkins Township seeks to gain more recognition | The Sunday Dispatch). I'm fairly certain both are using the financial loses their NA team surely takes for tax purposes.

    I don't know much about the NE Generals operations. I know the Generals have a NA3 team, they wouldn't be the first NA team to own Tier III teams and run them at a profit to help offset loses. They can't be expecting fans either, since their rink capacity is only 750 people and the only time it's even close to that is for high school games. As for their official attendance of over 200, having seen multiple games, I can assure you there's not 200 people even including dressed and scratched players, refs, scouts, and people like me waiting for their game to finish.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  4. mk80 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,261
    Likes Received:
    2,897
    Trophy Points:
    126
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Hockey Play-by-play
    The Generals (fairly sure) and Maryland can be included in ownership of their rinks. Either way it seems like the NAHL is going forward with trying to secure their foothold on the east coast.
     
  5. Captain Crash Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2015
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    61
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Hm, something about this thread is giving me deja vu...
     
  6. JMCx4 Gateway to Hockey

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    It's simply an echo inside your head.
     
    Captain Crash likes this.
  7. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tatooine
    Sorry, didn't realize you beat me to it by about 20 minutes. Want me to end this one?
     
  8. mk80 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,261
    Likes Received:
    2,897
    Trophy Points:
    126
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Hockey Play-by-play
    The Ice Hockey Dude likes this.
  9. JDogindy Jerk

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    1,738
    Likes Received:
    838
    Trophy Points:
    110
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Sales Clerk/College Student
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    mk80 likes this.
  10. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tatooine
    They're using the name of the youth hockey organization that shares the rink with them, same as NJ Titans and WBS Knights.
     
    mk80 likes this.
  11. mk80 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,261
    Likes Received:
    2,897
    Trophy Points:
    126
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Hockey Play-by-play
    It will be interesting to see how they fair, the previous NA team in that area the Mustangs only played 2010-12 at the Santa Ana Star Center way out in Rio Rancho. As Barclay has said they are connecting with the local youth organization, and putting $2M into upgrading the arena there to make it more suitable. However on a quick google map search of the rink, while it's a bit closer to the population center of Albuquerque it's still off in the furthest northeastern portion of the area.
     
  12. The Ice Hockey Dude Ack! Thbbft!

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2003
    Messages:
    6,962
    Likes Received:
    286
    Trophy Points:
    169
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Tech/Land Investments
    Location:
    Lost in the SW!
    The new owner of Outpost and this team, has allready put allot into the building. Still way more work to be done to host the team, id be concerned it wont all get done in time. Rio Rancho has a nice arena, its generally to far from population areas and past teams have died as a result. While Outpost is a better location than Rio Rancho im not sure its the best location in Albuquerque overall. Overall the owner has a passion for hockey and allot of money - not sure if the team will break even. No mater its nice to see local investment.
     
    mk80 and JMCx4 like this.
  13. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tatooine
    Daily Dish: NAHL and NCDC to Battle for Lewiston
    Heisler with his feedback on the move to Lewiston. Pretty much confirms the move was to poop on the NCDC team across the river. We all know where Heisler stands on the USPHL-NAHL battlefield, but after his USACHL cheerleading act I think his bias has gone deeper than the dreaded The Death Pool level.
     
  14. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Messages:
    25,681
    Likes Received:
    1,472
    Trophy Points:
    214
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    Auburn, Maine
    THEN he doesn't UNDERSTAND Lewiston or Auburn, the NAHL wanted to do this 4 years ago but there simply wasn't a division at that time, the current L-A franchise will remain members of the NA3EHL, just as the Current Twin City Thunder franchise will remain in their current league, the addition of the NAHL/NCDC just enhances the quality of play, the only reason the NAHL Likes Lewiston, is because the Commissioner is fully behind the group that got the franchise and is impressed with the Colisee
     
    mk80 likes this.
  15. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tatooine
    Alright, a few things here, Hutch.

    The NA3EHL was absorbed by the NA3HL a few years ago, they were and are completely different leagues.

    Second, the East Division did exist 4 years ago, that was the first year of its existence. They've played almost three full season with three to four other teams in the northeast (which doesn't count Johnstown, the defunct Keystone, and the recently relocated Jamestown) and have left Lewiston as an open market for years. They showed more interest in both Elmira and Danbury for crying out loud. The NAHL only moved to Lewiston conveniently close to the announcement that their rival league will set up shop 10 minutes down the road. That's not a coincidence. Hutch, the NAHL were so desperate for teams on the East Coast when they were setting up the division 5 or so years ago, they began looking for franchises whose financial models weren't reliant on fan support. The NAHL took those teams, namely Maryland, NJ, WBS, and Aston then Philadelphia, over Lewiston.

    The entire point of the NAHL East Division was to try and snuff out the free-to-play NCDC offered by the USPHL. The entire point of every move they've made on the East Coast has been part of this turf war.
     
  16. CHRDANHUTCH Registered User

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2002
    Messages:
    25,681
    Likes Received:
    1,472
    Trophy Points:
    214
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    Auburn, Maine
    your post is entirely false, BD, WHY? The Commissioner of the NAHL wanted to be there 4 years ago, THERE WAS NO NAHL EASTERN DIVISION

    IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NCDC GOT IT

    DID U REALIZE THE LA Nordiques NA3EHL team actually played in Norway Savings Bank Arena because the Colisee had an arena failure and that was well before the TC Thunder WERE EVEN OPERATIONAL, NEVER MIND THE NCDC Franchise

    the Nordiques do not mind the Thunder, they simply are not competitive because it offers a different model, and the current Nordiques team isn't going anywhere, just as the Thunder's current team isn't going anywhere, they're just adding another level of competition....

    it was the NAHL that got the group that owns the NAHL Nordiques, and Jim Cain, is still involved with both franchises

    all that was announced was an expansion of an existing franchise to the next level

    in fact, the LA Nordiques have dominated the NA3EHL and the Coastal Division in 2018/19

    link is as follows: Maine Nordiques, an NAHL Tier II team, coming to Lewiston

    part of that states:

    the current LA Nordiques will remain members of the NA3EHL IN 2019/2020, THE NEWEST version of the Nordiques returns the city to the pre 1974 era of the NAHL prior to the evolution of the AHL in 1977 as the Maine Nordiques, THE ONLY DELINEATION is it will not be an affiliated with an NHL franchise as the original team was with Quebec... ISS Kings will transition to the U 18 MDNP as part of their development program, they will remain in Bristol, PA for 2019/2020 AND ARRIVE officially in 2020-21....

    there were no East Division franchises in 2015/16, and the Nordiques have played the Northeast Generals, the last several years, as they are based out of North Attleboro, MA.

    IT HAS NO Bearing on the USPHL, the Thunder, or their announcement about adding an NCDC team in addition to the existing team....which is the same as the current Nordiques in the NA3EHL
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  17. JMCx4 Gateway to Hockey

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Well, that explains the NAHL's team's logo. Looks like it was picked from a junior high art contest.
     

    Attached Files:

    mk80 likes this.
  18. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tatooine
    While I give you credit for trying to use links, articles, and proof to try and support your point, which is a problem you've had in the past, you still didn't get it quite right. Still appreciate the effort though. Your assertion that the only difference between the 1970s Maine Nordiques is the affiliation with Quebec. That's just not true. First off, the NAHL of the early 1970s was a professional league that has no connection the the amateur NAHL that will soon start play in Lewiston. The name "Maine Nordiques" and the arena are the same, everything else is different. I thought someone as well versed in Maine hockey history as you would be aware of that. Delineation is a good word though, unfortunately it's wasted on a false claim. In addition, none of that was even mentioned in the article, thanks for trying to claim that it was. The rest of the stuff doesn't support any of the assertions that you have made.

    As for the points I've made, here's the NAHL announcing the East Division exactly four years ago for the 2015-16 season: NAHL announces teams, divisional alignment for 2015-16 season

    Here's the NA3EHL being absorbed by the NA3HL, and the LA Nordiques being a part of the NA3HL here:
    NA3EHL to join NA3HL for the 2016-17 season
    L/A Nordiques | North American Tier III Hockey League | NA3HL

    Here's a link that you can read about the NAHL expanding to New England and the players that come with it: Northeast Generals add new pathway, location in the NAHL

    Mind you, that last article is about the Northeast Generals, who were accepted into the NA for 2016-17, one year after the East Division started. A team that doesn't and can't attract any fans, operating with a model that doesn't require ticket sales and sponsorships, being chosen into the Eastern Division before Lewiston. That's desperation for finding a team, any team, on another level considering it's the antithesis of the the NAHL business model. And at that level of league wide desperation, Lewiston was still not added to the Eastern Division. Heck, even the Rebels were in Aston, then went to Philadelphia and then Jamestown before choosing Lewiston. The NAHL would even be in Elmira before Lewiston, too, if they didn't lose out to the Fed this past summer.

    And don't get defensive, although it's probably too late for that, I'm not bashing Lewiston or Portland or whatever teams in whatever leagues you support. It's a good market and a good add for the NAHL. However, the fact that the East Division has been around for a good amount of time, there's other locations that have been continuously chosen over Lewiston, and that there is only a team added after the rival league, who the NA is having a very well publicized turf war with, is adding a team down the road, then that's not a coincidence anymore. Turn off your caps lock, too, proper punctuation and grammar is becoming of an adult.

    To be fair, the league has had some horrible logos and names. Jamestown Ironmen probably takes the cake, even over the Ice Wolves. Alpena Ice Diggers has to be close, Albert Lea Thunder, Michigan Warriors, and Dawson Creek Rage were particularly cringy in their own ways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
    mk80 likes this.
  19. mk80 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,261
    Likes Received:
    2,897
    Trophy Points:
    126
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Hockey Play-by-play
    Exactly. Hubbard is a well funded owner (Hubbard Broadcasting owns and operates TV and Radio stations coast to coast). I would imagine their budget of $2M is to get the bare necessities in place for this season and some additional upgrades could be done at a later date. As you said Rio Rancho has the nicer facility in the Santa Ana Star Center by far in comparison to Outpost, but in terms of location it's far out there. Outpost has a slight advantage in terms of location but not a great advantage, but I'm sure the work they are doing along with Hubbard's financing and connecting with the youth program (something the Mustangs did not do to my knowledge) will help them in getting the franchise off the ground and running.

    Certainly not the best, but I've seen worse. From both the league itself and other junior leagues.
     
    The Ice Hockey Dude likes this.
  20. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tatooine
    You're involved with the NA3 Jr. Blues, right? Have you seen the Butte Cobras? Everything from the name, logo, and getup would hint it's designed for a roller hockey team. The Three Rivers Vengeance sounded like an arena football team, and you're right there's a lot of horrible ones out there. I wonder how leagues approve what these teams choose for branding. It sounds like they don't know anything about hockey and their only past experience comes from the lingerie football league and monster truck rallies.
     
    mk80 likes this.
  21. mk80 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,261
    Likes Received:
    2,897
    Trophy Points:
    126
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Hockey Play-by-play
    Yes, I'm currently working with the Jr. Blues right now. The Cobras logo could definitely use some updating, although I personally vote it ahead of the Niagara Powerhawks logo. I think at one point or another every league has had or currently has a logo or two that doesn't fit in with all the others.

    The actual wolf biting the stick in the Ice Wolves logo looks really good in my opinion. I think if they dropped the word marks around it, it would look a lot cleaner but I think that's how the logo is arranged for the youth association and that's just what they've used so far.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2019
  22. Captain Crash Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2015
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    61
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    The New Mexico Ice Wolves are moving right along, naming Phil Fox as their first head coach today.
    Press release: New Mexico names Phil Fox as first head coach

    A bit of a jump for Fox in terms of experience coaching and level of play, but it makes sense for the organization to promote from within as they expand.
     
    The Ice Hockey Dude and mk80 like this.
  23. JMCx4 Gateway to Hockey

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2017
    Messages:
    3,299
    Likes Received:
    1,539
    Trophy Points:
    94
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    A Fox leading the Wolves? Better than guarding the hen house, I suppose. :huh:
     
    The Ice Hockey Dude likes this.
  24. Barclay Donaldson Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Trophy Points:
    84
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tatooine
    Yeah, that's quite a big jump to take. Being a D1 DOHO isn't bad on a resume, but I guess all coaches have to get their break somewhere. Curious to see how he fares, considering there's been a wide spectrum of results recent expansion teams, some having a four win season and others winning the Robertson Cup in their second year.
     
    The Ice Hockey Dude and mk80 like this.
  25. Captain Crash Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2015
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    117
    Trophy Points:
    61
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    mk80 and Barclay Donaldson like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"