My updated 2012 top 60

Minister of Offence

Registered User
Oct 2, 2009
24,407
0
www.chadhargrove.com
Murray can play in the NHL next year he is that good. I would like to see a big offensive jump next year to around 50 points. Morgan Reilly will surprise a lot of people, I think he will slide into the top 8. He was the Warriors best dman against the Ice and they had former 10 pick MacIlrath playing as well.

+1 on Reilly. Doesn't seem as though he is held above Koekoek now but I think that could definitely change.
 

Ryan English

@ryanenglish_FC
Nov 14, 2010
378
1
Halifax, NS
ill try and sum this up, up and coming stars (grigorenko) who can get time in overseas mens leagues stay at home, because theyre that good they dont need to go to the CHL for icetime/ development (yes, there are exceptions).
Those who get frustrated with icetime/ know they wont get it over better superstar talents/ have big NA dreams from a young age (yakupov, landeskog) come to the chl to develop.

so not every european player should come over, but some who are stuck (MAX FRIBERG imo would be a good example, dont know alot more then what league he plays in) should come get ice time/ exposure.

so i side more with vorky then prophet of glennie even though vorkys arguments arent level headed at all
 

R S

Registered User
Sep 18, 2006
25,468
10
Murray can play in the NHL next year he is that good. I would like to see a big offensive jump next year to around 50 points. Morgan Reilly will surprise a lot of people, I think he will slide into the top 8. He was the Warriors best dman against the Ice and they had former 10 pick MacIlrath playing as well.

Rielly still looks very one dimensional on most nights. Great skater, but he doesn't use that enough and he is still inconsistent defensively.

I think the world of the kid and think he will QB an NHL PP one day, but the kid still has a ways to go before cracking the top 10 next season.
 

scoutman1

Twitter - scoutman33
Feb 19, 2005
3,220
543
www.facebook.com
Rielly still looks very one dimensional on most nights. Great skater, but he doesn't use that enough and he is still inconsistent defensively.

I think the world of the kid and think he will QB an NHL PP one day, but the kid still has a ways to go before cracking the top 10 next season.

I do agree on this...he plays like a Mike Green type of game, but inconnsistant
 

KRM

Registered User
Jun 9, 2005
11,239
86
Gothenburg
ill try and sum this up, up and coming stars (grigorenko) who can get time in overseas mens leagues stay at home, because theyre that good they dont need to go to the CHL for icetime/ development (yes, there are exceptions).
Those who get frustrated with icetime/ know they wont get it over better superstar talents/ have big NA dreams from a young age (yakupov, landeskog) come to the chl to develop.

so not every european player should come over, but some who are stuck (MAX FRIBERG imo would be a good example, dont know alot more then what league he plays in) should come get ice time/ exposure.

so i side more with vorky then prophet of glennie even though vorkys arguments arent level headed at all

Max Friberg? You obviously don't know what you are talking about. He chose to stay in his hometown playing with his hometown team, on their senior team, getting first line minutes as a 17 year old. When he was sixteen he could have picked any hockeygymnasium in the country but he felt it was better for him to stay at home.

If anything Friberg is a proof that there isn't any universal solution to player development, different strokes for different folks. Going the CHL route worked out great for Landeskog, would it have been better for his development if he had stayed in Sweden? Who knows, he reached the SEL as a sixteen year old, but he felt it was better for him to go play in the OHL.
 

scoutman1

Twitter - scoutman33
Feb 19, 2005
3,220
543
www.facebook.com
Max Friberg? You obviously don't know what you are talking about. He chose to stay in his hometown playing with his hometown team, on their senior team, getting first line minutes as a 17 year old. When he was sixteen he could have picked any hockeygymnasium in the country but he felt it was better for him to stay at home.

If anything Friberg is a proof that there isn't any universal solution to player development, different strokes for different folks. Going the CHL route worked out great for Landeskog, would it have been better for his development if he had stayed in Sweden? Who knows, he reached the SEL as a sixteen year old, but he felt it was better for him to go play in the OHL.

exact...so this should put an end to this topic...if the player is talented he will do well at the next level no matter where he is, if he isn't good enough he will not...my only thing i was saying was playing time, if the player does not get the playing time he needs to develop then another route might be his best option.
 

KRM

Registered User
Jun 9, 2005
11,239
86
Gothenburg
scoutman1, I'm really curious as to why you have Forsberg ahead of Collberg. IMO Forsberg is a tad better skill wise and has a better stride, but Collberg is more of the complete package having a better overall game with great competitiveness. I'm biased here, but seeing them go head to head in the J20 playoffs I think it was pretty clear who is ahead at this point.

Also, how much do you think Collberg's shoulder injury affected his season, his production dropped after returning from the injury, has this affected you ranking?

Collberg vs. Forsberg is a moot point though, if Erik Karlsson can add some muscle over the summer I think he'll surpass them both, best hockey sense in a 16-year old I ever seen. :nod:

Would love to hear your opinion.
 

scoutman1

Twitter - scoutman33
Feb 19, 2005
3,220
543
www.facebook.com
scoutman1, I'm really curious as to why you have Forsberg ahead of Collberg. IMO Forsberg is a tad better skill wise and has a better stride, but Collberg is more of the complete package having a better overall game with great competitiveness. I'm biased here, but seeing them go head to head in the J20 playoffs I think it was pretty clear who is ahead at this point.

Also, how much do you think Collberg's shoulder injury affected his season, his production dropped after returning from the injury, has this affected you ranking?

Collberg vs. Forsberg is a moot point though, if Erik Karlsson can add some muscle over the summer I think he'll surpass them both, best hockey sense in a 16-year old I ever seen. :nod:

Would love to hear your opinion.

I saw them both play, and they were both amazing, I was not sure who to put ahead of who, Forsberg was more exciting of a player with his puck handling skills, I put Forsberg ahead after the U18s where I saw Forsberg did well, so untill I see Collberg play in an international play that was my decision making on that it could easily go the other way though because I love Collberg, I did not know Collberg had an injury??? how bad was it?
 
Last edited:

KRM

Registered User
Jun 9, 2005
11,239
86
Gothenburg
I saw them both play, and they were both amazing, I was not sure who to put ahead of who, Forsberg was more exciting of a player with his puck handling skills, I put Forsberg ahead after the U18s where I saw Forsberg did well, so untill I see Collberg play in an international play that was my decision making on that, I did not know Collberg had an injury??? how bad was it?

Almost put an end to his season in December during Sweden's U17 tour in BC, luckily he didn't need surgery and was back playing in February, though noticeably not at the same level as his autumn campaign. He got a finger injury during a friendly game before the U18 Worlds which left him off the roster too...
 

Seachd

Registered User
Mar 16, 2002
24,937
8,946
Tho, none of the Finnish CHL players will ever make it. Rajala regressed ALOT in the WHL and Jyri Niemi saw his promising career go down the drain because he left Finland at the age of 17(16?).

Can you prove that the reason Niemi isn't any good (or Seitsonen or Marjamaki or whoever) is because he left Finland?
 

scoutman1

Twitter - scoutman33
Feb 19, 2005
3,220
543
www.facebook.com
Can you prove that the reason Niemi isn't any good (or Seitsonen or Marjamaki or whoever) is because he left Finland?



myself I think it is because they were just good at a certain age then did not progress like everyone though...easy to blame CHL though, again comes down to it, if a player is given the right training and ice time and is as good as they say he should be doing well and if not then he is not as good as thought.

Another argument is why didn't Lauri Tukonen do any better by staying over there
 

scoutman1

Twitter - scoutman33
Feb 19, 2005
3,220
543
www.facebook.com
Or Joensuu.

Rostislav Olesz too from Czech he was super highly ranked and right now is not even a sniff of what was once thought of him. Easy too look at the euros who don't turn out, but maybe the big thing some other people should look at is why didn't they turn out lol I know you probably feel the same....
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
30,710
16,238
Toruń, PL
Dumba IMO has to get a little smarter before I put him higher on the list he is an amazing talent but so is everyone in front of him.
I agree with this. I don't see Dumba as a top 10 player, but he's going to be very good physical defenseman around 10-16.

This is Murray's 2nd year in the league, and guys like Reinhart, Ebert and such 1st year in the league, these kids know what the league is going to be like now and train the off season to improve and come back and possibly surpass Murray...projection is what they are going to be like next year not this year.

Gives Murray another year to train too. It's not like he's missing a full offseason due to injury. I do believe he's better than Reinhart and will be better, but Ebert could challenge him to the top defenseman. Still I have Murray as the best around.


Matheson
Koekkoek

The other year in AAA for Matheson did kill his development which I ranked him around 13-16. When he goes off to BC which is a FANTASTIC school for hockey he will rise. Still my darkhorse with Reinhart that can challenge the other hyped prospects.

Koekkoek is my favourite player for the 2012 draft. He has fantastic offensive skill and to me is a Murray junior. Definitely going to be around 8-14.

How many people on here saw Trouba play, the kid is great, I think he is better than guys like Pouliot and Reilly and I have seen them all play, im giving my take on the situation here, I just didn't see one league of players play.

Trouba is much, much better than Pouliot and Rielly. I have been very critical over Pouliot because he has fantastic offensive talent, vision, and hockey sense, but DAMN he is terrible on defense. By far the worst player I've seen this bad. I'm wondering if it's better to switch him to forward which I personally do. As RS said Rielly has been inconsistent throughout the year.

Jordan Schmaltz no one ever talks about this kid on here, but people are missing an amazing prospect in the USHL who has the talent to be just as good as the best in the draft here.
A few posters focus their time too much on the CHL. Even though I prefer Trouba, Schmaltz is playing extremely well considering his age and who he's playing against.

Like I said before don't take it personally if a guy from your league is ranked lower than you would like, it is easy to watch the game in the DUB and say oh Dumba is going to be a top 5 pick next year, but don't forget about the other leagues becuase the prospects there for this draft in the other leagues are not taking a step back either..

Same goes for you too. As a scout for the Q you don't need to focus tons of your time on the dub compared to Midget/Bantam players in east Canada. Trust me it's hard, I really get it because I came from Q country and I am still a huge Foreurs fan, but it's hard living in the West to focus all my time on the Q when I have the dub, USHL, and WCHA to watch.

AJ Michaelson

I agree about him, it's a very hard draft because there is a ton of talent that could be a top 10 in any other draft. I put somewhere around 10-20.
 

Bure

Registered User
Jan 3, 2011
3,719
2
Ottawa, Ontario
ill try and sum this up, up and coming stars (grigorenko) who can get time in overseas mens leagues stay at home, because theyre that good they dont need to go to the CHL for icetime/ development (yes, there are exceptions).
Those who get frustrated with icetime/ know they wont get it over better superstar talents/ have big NA dreams from a young age (yakupov, landeskog) come to the chl to develop.

so not every european player should come over, but some who are stuck (MAX FRIBERG imo would be a good example, dont know alot more then what league he plays in) should come get ice time/ exposure.

so i side more with vorky then prophet of glennie even though vorkys arguments arent level headed at all

Yakupov would get plenty of ice time on his junior squad.

My take on this is Russians should stay and develope until they are ready to play in the NHL, not risk the chance of unable to adapt to the NA lifestyle, and NA style of hockey because of their such tendar age.

I am not saying that all Russians do not adapt to the lifestyle/ game style, however many of them do.

Although there have been sucessful projects ie. Radulov, Burmistov(altough still early to tell).

Also you guys may add that if they cannot adapt to the CHL then they can't ever adapt to the NHL which I find false because they are still young when they come over to NA if they decide to play in the CHL. And if they go over when they are filled out and mature they can most definetly make the transition to the NHL.

The only Russian's that should come over in my opinion are the one's that are mature beyond their years, ie. Yakupov, Radulov. Not only physically matured, but also mentally.

Also I believe that Euro's such as Czech's Slovak's, their best bet is to come to the CHL because their developement programs are weak from what I have heard.
 

Latex*

Guest
myself I think it is because they were just good at a certain age then did not progress like everyone though...easy to blame CHL though, again comes down to it, if a player is given the right training and ice time and is as good as they say he should be doing well and if not then he is not as good as thought.

Another argument is why didn't Lauri Tukonen do any better by staying over there

scoutman1 is a bad name for a guy who knows nothing about European hockey. The teams always give the players ice time they need. Often the finnsih players that go to the CHL tell that you're given a one chance to shine and if you don't take advantage you're screwed. Just look at Mika Partanen, super talented kid who is stuck in a bottom six role in the OHL.

You yourself had him ranked in the 1st round last year.. Whre's he projected to go after a year in the CHL.
That's right, undrafted.

You guys don't seem to realise that endless playing time in a physical league while traveling in a crappy small bus is not best for Europeans. They need PRACTISE time! That's what you don't get as much in the CHL.

Didn't you even read what vorky posted on the previous page...
The scout thing and such...

And as for Joensuu, i think from a second rounder making the NHL is what i would call success.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

cheerupmurray

Registered User
May 26, 2010
1,465
2
Stockholm
The CHL-route work for some european kids, for most european kids it's probably best to stay home. There is no clear answer, every individual is different.
Going from the european system where focus is on practice to the NA where you in stead play loads of game is probably not such an easy transition in that age.

For kids like Johan Sundström (Frölunda), Sebastian Wännström (Brynäs) and Sebastian Dyk (Malmö) however it would have been better to play in CHL. They have been stuck in the limbo between the senior and the junior team, getting very limited minutes for the senior team and few games with the juniors. That's a horrible for a players development, they need icetime.
 

pouskin74*

Guest
The CHL-route work for some european kids, for most european kids it's probably best to stay home. There is no clear answer, every individual is different.
Going from the european system where focus is on practice to the NA where you in stead play loads of game is probably not such an easy transition in that age.

you cant say any better than that.
 

AmericanDream

Thank you Elon!
Oct 24, 2005
36,959
26,269
Chicago Manitoba
I think Murray is better than all 2012 eligable defenseman.

and I think Ebert is the best defenseman for the 2012 draft...

and my dad can beat up your dad ;)

we have an entire year to prove all our theroies right or worng, cant wait as the 2012 draft will clearly be more exciting then this years draft.
 

AmericanDream

Thank you Elon!
Oct 24, 2005
36,959
26,269
Chicago Manitoba
Jordan Schmaltz is one of these kids that just seems to get better the bigger the stage. He will be moving on to a wonderful college program, and I feel the sky truly is the limit for this young man. A very underrated dman on these lists, glad you have him at a very high spot as this kid has absolutely tore up the USHL this season.

Definitely worthy of his rankings.
 

AmericanDream

Thank you Elon!
Oct 24, 2005
36,959
26,269
Chicago Manitoba
hey Scoutman, just wanted to see what you think about these two kids and where you might have them ranked:

Riley Barber - F - Dubuque -USHL- Riley had a wonderful freshman campaign in the USHL. Kid has solid size, though he needs to get stronger and stronger on the puck as well. But if there is a serious riser from the USHL, this kid might be it.

Brendan Silk - F - USNDP - USHL - Silk is such a talented young man, that his injury which pretty much wiped out this entire season was such a shame. He is going to be a riser like Connor Murphy in my eyes if he can stay healthy as he has high end skill, size (though needs to bulk up some more), and some grit as well.

Both of these kids arent what I would consider elite, but both kids can certainly make a case for a top 30 spot if they can stay healthy and continue to progress as expected.

Thanks
 

Rshields

Registered User
Oct 23, 2009
140
0
Thanks for your list scoutman. I don't see much other than the Dub and a few international tournaments, but I think you have a pretty good one looking at this point in time.
Reilly is a favorite of mine. No argument he is inconsistent but he does give us some glimpses of just how much up side there is there. We have to remember these kid were playing bantam hockey 2 yrs ago. One year as a rookie in Midget and one yr as a rookie in Jr. Reilly still looks like a rookie. I think as he settles down and realizes the level of talent he has compared to his team mates his game will move to the next level and enable him to make a big impact for whoever gets him in the NHL.
I'm just not as high on Dumba, as I don't see him ever having the size to take his style of game to the NHL. Someone mentioned converting Pouliot to forward. That may be in the future for Dumba, as I think Wallin has already experimented with that. His game style is a little like Wendall Clark who was a converted D-man.
As forwards from the Dub go I see you now have Troy Bourke late in the first and Ryan Olsen late in the second. I find it interesting that in that age group there are so many highly rated d-men and no notable forwards in that league. think we will see Chandler Stevenson and Tyrell Seaman show up on some lists prior to the 2012 draft. I see them as better prospects than Gow ,Thrower or probably Bourke.
Keep those updates coming. As far as the dub goes, I think this one is better than the first. Thanks again.
 

Tormentor

Registered User
Dec 27, 2007
2,056
45
Too Far
As forwards from the Dub go I see you now have Troy Bourke late in the first and Ryan Olsen late in the second. I find it interesting that in that age group there are so many highly rated d-men and no notable forwards in that league. think we will see Chandler Stevenson and Tyrell Seaman show up on some lists prior to the 2012 draft. I see them as better prospects than Gow ,Thrower or probably Bourke.
What's your view on Colton Sissons? Does anyone else have an opinion about him?
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->