My updated 2012 top 60

[vorky]

IIHF doesn't list the name of the scout they use, and a Euro scout won't have seen a Euro CHLer hardly at all, if at all. The IIHF has their own agenda, they want to see players stay in their respective countries. Theres a bias in that study, and I've already mentioned the only real facts in it are numbers, which don't tell the quality of players who went over in the first place.

Going to the AHL is an NHL teams decision, diffrent from the CHL.

Find me a named scouts opinion, who actually watches the CHL who says that. Find me a scout who says Landeskog made a mistake, Burmistrov made a mistake, ect.

guy, you are funny..
You wanted opinion of scouts.. I wrote it.. you speak about bias... funny

Answer for my Q.. if you name at least 10 players, I will quote CHL scout statement about Burmistrov etc.

You say that IIHF study is a bias. My next question.. are statement of CHL scouts objective? I think it can be a bias.. I dont know. How you can say that IIHF study is a bias? I think it is objective source of informations. Many Europeans agree with this.

You wrote
I've already mentioned the only real facts in it are numbers, which don't tell the quality of players who went over in the first place.

ok, study says about quantity... Euro coutries dont have so many juniors to waste on their talent. Every player is important.
As I wrote above.. one player can develop solid in CHL, but 99 ruins.. and that study says about it!!!

If you dont believe IIHF study, read Latexi84´s posts and other guys

 

[Latex*]

IIHF doesn't list the name of the scout they use, and a Euro scout won't have seen a Euro CHLer hardly at all, if at all. The IIHF has their own agenda, they want to see players stay in their respective countries. Theres a bias in that study, and I've already mentioned the only real facts in it are numbers, which don't tell the quality of players who went over in the first place.

Going to the AHL is an NHL teams decision, diffrent from the CHL.

Find me a named scouts opinion, who actually watches the CHL who says that. Find me a scout who says Landeskog made a mistake, Burmistrov made a mistake, ect.

You've got two players that you seem to think are the only ones to ever make journey to the CHL.

For every Landeskog there's always 10 players that regress in the CHL.

And yes there's a certain type of players that benefit of playing in CHL: The physically matured players! The skill players, superstars really benefit from being able to improve their skills on the big ice and then when they're older and ready, adjust to the NA rink.

Dig this post up When Tarasenko, Rundbladt and Järnkrok tear up the NHL.

 

[Bjorn Le]

You've got two players that you seem to think are the only ones to ever make journey to the CHL.

For every Landeskog there's always 10 players that regress in the CHL.

And yes there's a certain type of players that benefit of playing in CHL: The physically matured players! The skill players, superstars really benefit from being able to improve their skills on the big ice and then when they're older and ready, adjust to the NA rink.

Dig this post up When Tarasenko, Rundbladt and Järnkrok tear up the NHL.

And yet again you confuse two things. You reply like I'm saying all players should go to the CHL, while I've said its right for some players and not right for others. Whats your defintion of regress? Not progressing? Thats stagnation not regression, and if a player busts when they played in the CHL, its likely the same outcome even if they stayed in Europe.

You assume its the CHL that causes it and not the players themself. If they bust at one league, you can't assume they won't bust in Europe.

A new wave of highly skilled players is now in the CHL, this wasn't happening before and I'm positive, I'll guarentee that we'll see more and more Euro NHLers who do well coming from the CHL.

 

[Latex*]

For christ's sake Prophet of Glennie, read all the Vorky's posts from the previous page. They sum this all up pretty well.

 

[Bjorn Le]

For christ's sake Prophet of Glennie, read all the Vorky's posts from the previous page. They sum this all up pretty well.

A post from an incredibly biased source who is adamant on the "fact" that all Euros who go the CHL made the wrong decision and will be busts?

Yeah ok

I'm sorry you want to see your home country players stay, but they're not busts because they leave and you won't find any professional who says that. Vorky doesn't have a clue about anything regarding the CHL or players in it.

 

[zjh]

Maybe Euros don't regress. The CHL could just be a lot stronger of a league then most have played in. I'm not saying the Swedish Elite League us worse than the CHL but the 2nd tier leagues are not even close. Some of these players that end up being "busts" may just not be as good as people think.

 

[vorky]

Latexi84

Let him be... he does not understand what I am saying... he does not want to.

I dont generalize it, I just say

1. Euro superstars dont need CHL - Ovi, Malkin, Gaborik etc
2. Many Europeans go to CHL because our juniors are crappy (SVK).
3. Many Euros ruined in CHL
4. Maybe a few Euros develop right in CHL

BUT

What will these players (no.4) bring to NHL? What original?

Ok, CHL can develop one solid/great Euro player (Landeskog case) but how many Euros ruine there? IIHF study says about it...

Prophet of Glennie

Answer for my Q, I am waitng

 

[Latex*]

Saying that the CHL is better than European leagues is just pure ignorance.

Every PROFESSIONAL league in Europe is better than the CHL.




You people clearly have no clue about European hockey.

 

[scoutman1]

well Vorky 1st North America is really a new route for most euros, they been doing it for a bit now but the best usually stayed back in Europe now just recently the top guys been coming over so your argument is almost nill you have no fight with this but I will give you names right now though:

Ales Hemsky - Hull
Marian Hossa - Spokan
David Krejci - Gatineau
Michael Frolik - Rimouski
Zdano Chara - WHL im to lazy to look up team
Jacob Voracek - Halifax
Alex Burmistrov - Barrie
Sergei Kostitsyn - London
Thomas Vanek played in USHL
Alexander Radulov - Quebec (would have been superstar if not in KHL)
Andrej Meszaros - Vancouver (only played 1 year)
Ondrej Pavlac - Cape Breton
Tomas Fleischmann - Moose Jaw
are some names...

 

[Bjorn Le]

Saying that the CHL is better than European leagues is just pure ignorance.

Every PROFESSIONAL league in Europe is better than the CHL.




You people clearly have no clue about European hockey.

Every professional league is not a better development league. Stop reading posts and assuming what they mean.

The CHL is the best junior development league in the world. Prefessional leagues want to win and win championships, getting young players into games and developing them isn't what they try to do in most cases.

 

[scoutman1]

Saying that the CHL is better than European leagues is just pure ignorance.

Every PROFESSIONAL league in Europe is better than the CHL.




You people clearly have no clue about European hockey.

no one said that,,,but guess it is selective reading or just not understanding, yes the league might be better because you are playing men what was said is playing time becomes an issue...you know a mens team with a 16 or 17 year old playing there they go to the 3rd or 4th line most times and get limited ice time WHICH HURTS development, not saying all is done like that, but a lot of guys have gone through this. At least in the CHL they get top minuets but I was not saying CHL is the best if you know how to take things saying that the option of going there is not a bad one.

 

[scoutman1]

Latexi84

Let him be... he does not understand what I am saying... he does not want to.

I dont generalize it, I just say

1. Euro superstars dont need CHL - Ovi, Malkin, Gaborik etc
2. Many Europeans go to CHL because our juniors are crappy (SVK).
3. Many Euros ruined in CHL
4. Maybe a few Euros develop right in CHL

BUT

What will these players (no.4) bring to NHL? What original?

Ok, CHL can develop one solid/great Euro player (Landeskog case) but how many Euros ruine there? IIHF study says about it...

Prophet of Glennie

Answer for my Q, I am waitng

first don't be snotty on here, your backed in a corner and trying to come out fighting to prove...so these players who are ruined in the CHL...how would they have feared in the NHL, what that euro player was going to bring to the NHL they brought to the CHL team (where they would be able to play a run and gun game a bit more than the NHL) and they were unable to do it over here, not that the CHL ruined them there lack of ability was exploited now and in the NHL they might never have played there, I mean really if you not good enough to play in the CHL what would make it different about playing in the NHL?????? answer my question....IM WAITING??????????

 

[Granlund2Pulkkinen*]

Here we go

This list sucks because *insert talented prospect you like* from *insert the league that you follow most* is rated lower than *insert lesser prospect here* from *league you don't follow*

Use that as your form.

 

[Latex*]

Every professional league is not a better development league. Stop reading posts and assuming what they mean.

The CHL is the best junior development league in the world. Prefessional leagues want to win and win championships, getting young players into games and developing them isn't what they try to do in most cases.

You do realise that Finnish hockey clubs always want best for Finnish hockey? I'm not sure if the CHL teams always think first of what's best for our hockey...

 

[Latex*]

no one said that,, but guess it is selective reading or just not understanding, yes the league might be better because you are playing men what was said is playing time becomes an issue...you know a mens team with a 16 or 17 year old playing there they go to the 3rd or 4th line most times and get limited ice time WHICH HURTS development, not saying all is done like that, but a lot of guys have gone through this. At least in the CHL they get top minuets but I was not saying CHL is the best if you know how to take things saying that the option of going there is not a bad one.

Post 81

Edit; why not use this post to say this.
You know, there's the u20 leagues for the 16yo's.
And btw name ten prospects that have become busts because of playing in the 3rd/4th lines in European leagues. You know Mikael Granlund played in the 2nd line of one of the best teams in the league in his draft year. Joel Armia in the 1st line. Finnish clubs want best for Finnish hockey, you can be sure about that.

 

[YEGJuniorFan]

Vorky you seem to want to argue this issue a lot. Please create a thread on development, this thread is about the top 60. Great work scoutman I always enjoy your lists. Looks like an unbelievable draft

 

[vorky]

first don't be snotty on here, your backed in a corner and trying to come out fighting to prove...so these players who are ruined in the CHL...how would they have feared in the NHL, what that euro player was going to bring to the NHL they brought to the CHL team (where they would be able to play a run and gun game a bit more than the NHL) and they were unable to do it over here, not that the CHL ruined them there lack of ability was exploited now and in the NHL they might never have played there, I mean really if you not good enough to play in the CHL what would make it different about playing in the NHL?????? answer my question....IM WAITING??????????

Maybe if player stayed at home and develop in Europe he would be better player like he is after few years in CHL. Maybe he would never be NHL caliber but he could be better Euro player. Now, he regress in CHL and go back home... so many Czechs

 

[nafrelio]

Here we go



Use that as your form.

Your facetiousness aside, thanks for trying to get this thread back on topic. I was hoping to read about next year's talent, not a few people whining about how to develop them. Start a new thread people!

Great job Scoutman - this gets me really excited about next year's draft. The Oilers should draft top 10 again and should get another great player. Keep these rankings coming.

On another note, has anyone seen #40 Gow play? What are his chances of cracking an NHL lineup?

 

[Joey Moss]

I think Murray is better than all 2012 eligable defenseman.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

well Vorky 1st North America is really a new route for most euros, they been doing it for a bit now but the best usually stayed back in Europe now just recently the top guys been coming over so your argument is almost nill you have no fight with this but I will give you names right now though:

Ales Hemsky - Hull
Marian Hossa - Spokan
David Krejci - Gatineau
Michael Frolik - Rimouski
Zdano Chara - WHL im to lazy to look up team
Jacob Voracek - Halifax
Alex Burmistrov - Barrie
Sergei Kostitsyn - London
Thomas Vanek played in USHL
Alexander Radulov - Quebec (would have been superstar if not in KHL)
Andrej Meszaros - Vancouver (only played 1 year)
Ondrej Pavlac - Cape Breton
Tomas Fleischmann - Moose Jaw
are some names...

Just looking at the list, you have to qualify what "develop" means. For example as far as I know Marián Hossa was no 16-17 year old kid when he went to the CHL, he was already at that time one of the best players in Slovak league (around PPG) and had even played at the IHWC in his draft season. Same goes for Meszároš who too had finished a whole season in the Slovak league and too had played at the IHWC. So where did they develop? Couldn´t you say that they actually developed in Europe and only adjusted to the North American game in the CHL were both played just one freaking season?

Also when you look at the past 10 years, CHL has done little when it commes to developing Slovak/Czech NHL talent (of course there are bigger reasons for that too) here and here and at least some of those players did have the potential to become NHL players one day. There´s no proof that the CHL is as good or better when it commes to developing all European players.

 

[scoutman1]

Just looking at the list, you have to qualify what "develop" means. For example as far as I know Marián Hossa was no 16-17 year old kid when he went to the CHL, he was already at that time one of the best players in Slovak league (around PPG) and had even played at the IHWC in his draft season. Same goes for Meszároš who too had finished a whole season in the Slovak league and too had played at the IHWC. So where did they develop? Couldn´t you say that they actually developed in Europe and only adjusted to the North American game in the CHL were both played just one freaking season?

Also when you look at the past 10 years, CHL has done little when it commes to developing Slovak/Czech NHL talent (of course there are bigger reasons for that too) here and here and at least some of those players did have the potential to become NHL players one day. There´s no proof that the CHL is as good or better when it commes to developing all European players.

well when you look at it Czech hockey has done little to develop high profile players....Rostislav Olesz, Milan Michalek two names who come to mind who had all the talent in the world in Czech rebulic and are a far cry from who they were suppose to be, MUST have been Czech hockey that ruined them right????? because they never played CHL.

 

[scoutman1]

I think Murray is better than all 2012 eligable defenseman.

I love Murray I have no hate for the kid, he is a great defender...myself and this is only me, I think when Ebert, Koekkoek, Reinhart, Pouliot, Reilly, Trouba, Maatta, etc etc all have another year of development you will get to see there real games and the gap will not be far if at all...Murray will develop too and he is good now.

 

[Jamie Benn]

I think I make a top 150.

 

[zjh]

I love Murray I have no hate for the kid, he is a great defender...myself and this is only me, I think when Ebert, Koekkoek, Reinhart, Pouliot, Reilly, Trouba, Maatta, etc etc all have another year of development you will get to see there real games and the gap will not be far if at all...Murray will develop too and he is good now.

Murray can play in the NHL next year he is that good. I would like to see a big offensive jump next year to around 50 points. Morgan Reilly will surprise a lot of people, I think he will slide into the top 8. He was the Warriors best dman against the Ice and they had former 10 pick MacIlrath playing as well.

 

[scoutman1]

Murray can play in the NHL next year he is that good. I would like to see a big offensive jump next year to around 50 points. Morgan Reilly will surprise a lot of people, I think he will slide into the top 8. He was the Warriors best dman against the Ice and they had former 10 pick MacIlrath playing as well.

i know he can...im looking at more long term projection than short term.