My updated 2012 top 60

[Breakfast of Champs]

i'd like to hear why you have Frk so low hes a top 10 talent imo.

Top 10 talent, doesnt mean hes going to go top 10. Kabanov was top 10 talent, look where he went in the draft. Frk had a good season and showed flashes of brilliance but a lot of the time he was lazy and took a lot of stupid penalties. Some games I saw he was amazing and others I forgot he was even on the ice. He did play his best at the wjc when the world was watching which has given him a big boost in most mock drafts IMO. It didnt help that he played on the mooseheads who were far from a good team and didnt have much to work with. I can see him going top 10 still but he needs to work on consistency big time and put up some big numbers with halifax, who seem to be on the right track to becoming a respectable team again.

 

[pouskin74*]

no Prohorkin?

 

[JeromeHP]

Scoutman,

Whats your take on Matheson ? some ppl say he wasted his time this year in MidgetAAA with Lac St-Louis. i guess your not one of those since you have him 8th overall. Some ppl compared his situaton to Louis Leblanc. Next year he's going to Dubuques and the year after BC. even though his right are owned by shawinigan who will host the 2012 memorial cup. Whats your take as well on his career path ?

Thanks again for the list.

 

[Czechexpert]

I would like to see Pontus Aberg and Teuro Teräväinen there.
Russian goalie Vasilevsky looks like first round prospect and Czech goalie Marek Langhammer could be in top 60.
Czech D Petr Sidlik isn´t NHL prospect.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

I agree with Grigorenko > Yakupov, although it seems unrealistic to rank him higher for the NHL Entry Draft, considering Yakupov is playing in the OHL.

 

[vorky]

Did Yakupov do best when moved to CHL? Would not be better for him to develop at home? Look at Kucherov, Grigorenko, Gusev, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Bobrovsky...

 

[MitchRobichaud]

Did Yakupov do best when moved to CHL? Would not be better for him to develop at home? Look at Kucherov, Grigorenko, Gusev, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Bobrovsky...

Usually I agree that most europeans would develop better in their native country, but Nail plays a very North American style and took relatively no time to adapt compared to others. He got tons of playing time with Sarnia and has developped just fine. He looks to be a top 3 prospect in the 2012 draft which is a very deep draft.

 

[vorky]

Usually I agree that most europeans would develop better in their native country, but Nail plays a very North American style and took relatively no time to adapt compared to others. He got tons of playing time with Sarnia and has developped just fine. He looks to be a top 3 prospect in the 2012 draft which is a very deep draft.

ok, but IMO it is too early to judge that Nail developed good enough. Ok, maybe he is star at junior level, but what about men? Will he play the same role? What "russian/european" will he bring to NHL when he left native country too early?

All guys I wrote above have a great opportunity to play among men.. the same Swedes, Finns... it is not logical for me to go to CHL.. if he was great player, he would make a roster of NHL team .. he did not need to play CHL. Remember my words... you will see Kuznetsov and Tarasenko.. you will compare them.. IMHO Kuznetsov and Tarasenko will be better like Yakupov.. because they develop at home

 

[Bjorn Le]

If you're going to use that logic you must think CHL players should go to Europe too.

It's an incredibly flawed arguement. I guess 5 minutes of playing time with "men" on International ice is better than playing real minutes on NA ice?

 

[vorky]

If you're going to use that logic you must think CHL players should go to Europe too.

It's an incredibly flawed arguement. I guess 5 minutes of playing time with "men" on International ice is better than playing real minutes on NA ice?

It is not about 5 TOI with men in Europe... some great guys have heavy TOI in senior league.

It is about developing, about learning european style of game... there are tons of Canadiens who can hit, can play tough game but Canadiens dont have sense of game like Europeans, technique, skating, thinking... look at Forsberg, Jagr, Bure, Fedorov etc.. Europeans playing CHL dont bring anything special to NA game.. they just learn NA style, they became solid players, but not unique... it is not just my opinion, it is reality!!

Canadiens dont have to go to european junior leagues.. because it is other style of game. Look, some Canadiens play european senior leagues and they play very solid.. no problem.

You dont consider about the fact that European kids learn something and suddenly they change enviroment... they are not developed in european style of game.. they come to CHL and they can not developed to NA style of game like Canadiens who learn it all they life. It is difference, fact which some guys dont want to understand

 

[MaNNe]

Is there a reason Frk is that low? Granted I don't follow the prospects much at all, but last I heard he was a top-3 pick ranked at even #1 ?

 

[Helsingin Jokerit]

If you're going to use that logic you must think CHL players should go to Europe too.

It's an incredibly flawed arguement. I guess 5 minutes of playing time with "men" on International ice is better than playing real minutes on NA ice?

If you really are good, you get those minutes in Europe too. Grigorenko played few games with ZSKA Moscow already this season, and he will be a top 6 player in that team next season. Propably will also get lots of PP minutes. Tarasenko also got pretty good minutes this year.

 

[vorky]

If you really are good, you get those minutes in Europe too. Grigorenko played few games with ZSKA Moscow already this season, and he will be a top 6 player in that team next season. Propably will also get lots of PP minutes. Tarasenko also got pretty good minutes this year.

I agree with you. I would correct you, Grigorensko did not play KHL last season, he played MHL (as one of youngest player in league) and was key men on ice in Red Army team.

Gusev, Prokhorkin and Kucherov played some games in KHL. At least two of them will make a roster of CSKA (KHL) next season, IMO

I am not against Europeans playing in NHL, but I am against Europeans leaving too early. And other thing is that NHL teams dont pay real money for Europeans, they pay just "funny money"

 

[Bjorn Le]

It is not about 5 TOI with men in Europe... some great guys have heavy TOI in senior league.

It is about developing, about learning european style of game... there are tons of Canadiens who can hit, can play tough game but Canadiens dont have sense of game like Europeans, technique, skating, thinking... look at Forsberg, Jagr, Bure, Fedorov etc.. Europeans playing CHL dont bring anything special to NA game.. they just learn NA style, they became solid players, but not unique... it is not just my opinion, it is reality!!

Canadiens dont have to go to european junior leagues.. because it is other style of game. Look, some Canadiens play european senior leagues and they play very solid.. no problem.

You dont consider about the fact that European kids learn something and suddenly they change enviroment... they are not developed in european style of game.. they come to CHL and they can not developed to NA style of game like Canadiens who learn it all they life. It is difference, fact which some guys dont want to understand

Most Euros don't. You think if Burmistrov was playing in Russia last year he would have gone top 10, let alone be in the NHL this year? Same goes with Niederreiter last year, and Landeskog this year.

The ones who are going to amount to anything anyway won't be harmed at all coming over here. The ones that won't wouldn't even if they stayed. There is no right or wrong choice, and all speculation is just that, speculation. You can say so and so would be a great player if they stayed but you don't know that.

What's right for Taresenko may not be right for Yakupov. Yakupov did what he and his agent thought were best, and he's excelling now.

 

[vorky]

Most Euros don't. You think if Burmistrov was playing in Russia last year he would have gone top 10, let alone be in the NHL this year? Same goes with Niederreiter last year, and Landeskog this year.

The ones who are going to amount to anything anyway won't be harmed at all coming over here. The ones that won't wouldn't even if they stayed. There is no right or wrong choice, and all speculation is just that, speculation. You can say so and so would be a great player if they stayed but you don't know that.

What's right for Taresenko may not be right for Yakupov. Yakupov did what he and his agent thought were best, and he's excelling now.

Yakupov went to CHL because he did not want to sign 5 years deal with Neftekhimik in KHL. This is only reason for his leaving.

Niederreiter does not have so good men league
Landeskog made a mistake
Burmistrov is other case.

 

[Helsingin Jokerit]

I agree with you. I would correct you, Grigorensko did not play KHL last season

Yeah, I remembered wrong. I somehow tought that he got a chance to play for the big club for 1-2 games in the end of the regular season.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

Most Euros don't. You think if Burmistrov was playing in Russia last year he would have gone top 10, let alone be in the NHL this year? Same goes with Niederreiter last year, and Landeskog this year.

The ones who are going to amount to anything anyway won't be harmed at all coming over here. The ones that won't wouldn't even if they stayed. There is no right or wrong choice, and all speculation is just that, speculation. You can say so and so would be a great player if they stayed but you don't know that.

What's right for Taresenko may not be right for Yakupov. Yakupov did what he and his agent thought were best, and he's excelling now.

You are contradicting yourself in this post, first you say that the development will go the same way no matter where the players go and than ou say that what´s right for Tarasenko might not be right for Yakupov...?? Of course it is very indivudal and you can´t generalize, but there are definitely players who benefit from staying in Europe and players who benefit from going the CHL route. Also, age is a very important factor in this and there is a huge difference between a 16/17 year old and an 18 year old (especially one who has had some previous experience in European pro league) comming to the CHL and there are quite a few examples of players whose potential has been marred by going to the CHL too early.

Also it is bogus claiming that Landeskog or Niederreiter wouldn´t go top 10 if they played in Europe (asides the fact that it doesn´t matter for the players development where he is picked), that´s acting as if players who play in Europe don´t get drafted in the top 10. Especially with a kid like Landeskog who would be playing in the Swedish system, rom where players get drafted in the top 10 and several of his compatriots might be drafted from there this year again. Niederreiter, I don´t know, maybe not, but it would have to do with the fact that he´d probably be playing in the Swiss league, which is not known for producing world class forwards, but Niederreiter might have actually gotten some serious ice-time there last season. Burmistriv would probably not go top 10 either, but that´s because of the Russian factor, which again hasn´t all that much to do with player development.

 

[Latex*]

Most Euros don't. You think if Burmistrov was playing in Russia last year he would have gone top 10, let alone be in the NHL this year? Same goes with Niederreiter last year, and Landeskog this year.

The ones who are going to amount to anything anyway won't be harmed at all coming over here. The ones that won't wouldn't even if they stayed. There is no right or wrong choice, and all speculation is just that, speculation. You can say so and so would be a great player if they stayed but you don't know that.

What's right for Taresenko may not be right for Yakupov. Yakupov did what he and his agent thought were best, and he's excelling now.

There's endless list of Finns who left to the NA too early, and who came back as worse players than they were before they left.

And have you thought why are the Euros that the wings draft doing always so well?
It's because they let them stay in Europe for long enough!


Which is better by the way:

Playing +80 easy games a year and traveling all across canada in a small bus...
or...
Playing big minutes against better players ~50-60 games a year and having more time to practise?

Playing in the CHL might be better solution for a small minority of players who are physically mature already at early stage of their career. (i.e Nino, Lando)
The real superstars, the skill players which need time to devolop, they come from European leagues.

 

[Puckluck11]

Interesting list as always.

I would replace Dansk with Vasilevsky in the first round as he's more proven at this point, played really well at the WC18.

From a swedish standpoint Aberg and Karlsson is probably second rounders at this point but i suspect them to become first rounders if they continue to improve.

Folin and Andersson are question marks, i don't see any swedish defenders in the top 2 rounds but things can change of course.

 

[vorky]

You are contradicting yourself in this post, first you say that the development will go the same way no matter where the players go and than ou say that what´s right for Tarasenko might not be right for Yakupov...?? Of course it is very indivudal and you can´t generalize, but there are definitely players who benefit from staying in Europe and players who benefit from going the CHL route. Also, age is a very important factor in this and there is a huge difference between a 16/17 year old and an 18 year old (especially one who has had some previous experience in European pro league) comming to the CHL and there are quite a few examples of players whose potential has been marred by going to the CHL too early.

Also it is bogus claiming that Landeskog or Niederreiter wouldn´t go top 10 if they played in Europe (asides the fact that it doesn´t matter for the players development where he is picked), that´s acting as if players who play in Europe don´t get drafted in the top 10. Especially with a kid like Landeskog who would be playing in the Swedish system, rom where players get drafted in the top 10 and several of his compatriots might be drafted from there this year again. Niederreiter, I don´t know, maybe not, but it would have to do with the fact that he´d probably be playing in the Swiss league, which is not known for producing world class forwards, but Niederreiter might have actually gotten some serious ice-time there last season. Burmistriv would probably not go top 10 either, but that´s because of the Russian factor, which again hasn´t all that much to do with player development.

I agree with this statement.. I mentioned the same in previous post

 

[scoutman1]

Scoutman,

Whats your take on Matheson ? some ppl say he wasted his time this year in MidgetAAA with Lac St-Louis. i guess your not one of those since you have him 8th overall. Some ppl compared his situaton to Louis Leblanc. Next year he's going to Dubuques and the year after BC. even though his right are owned by shawinigan who will host the 2012 memorial cup. Whats your take as well on his career path ?

Well myself I hope Matheson goes to Shawinigan next year, he needs to be on a fast track to the NHL he is that good...a lot, but even going USHL he will get the looks he should so won't be super bad for him...Matheson hardly anyone im sure on these boards saw him play but if he played QMJHL this year people would be saying he is one of the best for the draft as he showed in the U17s in Quebec imo outplaying a lot of the already known guys...Matheson has size, his skating ability might be the best in the draft, he is a Paul Coffey type of skater, he has amazing hands with the puck, great IQ, excellent joining the rush but is smart about it, good shot from the point and amazing playmaking from the back end, his defensive game is also good, he was the 1st overall pick in the QMJHL hands down if he did not say he was going NCAA. My take on his career path is I hate to see a talent like his go BACK to midget AAA and not be challenged by higher competition IMO it is almost a year lost in development. But next year at least he would be playing in the USHL to get challenged higher, but i hate seeing a player loose that whole year of development, I do not think it hurt him though at the U17s he dominated against all the CHL rookies.

 

[scoutman1]

I see people wonder why this and why that...well everyone there own opinion this is mine....but Dumba IMO has to get a little smarter before I put him higher on the list he is an amazing talent but so is everyone in front of him.

This is Murray's 2nd year in the league, and guys like Reinhart, Ebert and such 1st year in the league, these kids know what the league is going to be like now and train the off season to improve and come back and possibly surpass Murray...projection is what they are going to be like next year not this year.

I ranked Frk low because they guy has to improve his skating big time, his competitive level is poor sometimes, he is too inconsistant and his defensive game needs a lot of work, the guy has a lot of holes in his game that he has to improve before I rank him higher.

So people say Pouliot and Reilly should be higher, and Dumba, that is ok, but who would you drop, they are not in the top 3 ill say that, Trouba is more polished than them and very smart, Reinhart and Murray they are not better than yet, Matheson not too many people have seen him play so hard for others to make a comment on him, nothing wrong with Koekkoek being ranked ahead the guy is a major talent himself, Schmaltz I think is going to be amazing, Maatta played in the world juniors as a 16 year old he is amazing, Forsberg is so exciting and one of the best forwards for the draft, he dominated as a 95 in the U18s, Henrik Samuelsson is going to be a star power forward who has the size, the skill and the blood lines...myself I don't see a problem with anyone ranked ahead.

How many people on here saw Trouba play, the kid is great, I think he is better than guys like Pouliot and Reilly and I have seen them all play, im giving my take on the situation here, I just didn't see one league of players play.

Jordan Schmaltz no one ever talks about this kid on here, but people are missing an amazing prospect in the USHL who has the talent to be just as good as the best in the draft here.

Like I said before don't take it personally if a guy from your league is ranked lower than you would like, it is easy to watch the game in the DUB and say oh Dumba is going to be a top 5 pick next year, but don't forget about the other leagues becuase the prospects there for this draft in the other leagues are not taking a step back either...an example here comes from Dominic Poulin I would love to have that guy in the 1st as I think he is a 1st round talent, but there is not way he is better than the guys I got ranked in front of him, and a guy like AJ Michaelson I would love to have in the top 15 right now things could change but right now I think he is a top 15 talent but I have him ranked low 1st round because no way I can move him up.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Yakupov went to CHL because he did not want to sign 5 years deal with Neftekhimik in KHL. This is only reason for his leaving.

Niederreiter does not have so good men league
Landeskog made a mistake
Burmistrov is other case.

Yakupov could have signed with another team if he didn't want a 5 year contract. Yakupov has stated many times he came over since he wants to show he wants to play in the NHL.

You admit Niederreiter made the right choice, and LOL at Landeskog made a mistake coming over. It's clear you don't have a clue about him. Every informed person says Landeskog made a great decision to come over. His game is so much more developed then when he left Sweden. He plays a North American game, not a Swedish game.

And for Burmistrov it clearly was the right decision.

It's funny how its only Euro posters who aren't involved with anything that claim it's "bad. It's pretty it's jelously that instead of staying they leave to further their career elsewhere.

There is absoulutely nothing wrong with Euros coming to the CHL. And there's nothing wrong with the ones that stay. Have you ever heard anyone actually involved with hockey say Euros should stay? Don't think so. That IIHF study was just numbers, not an actually observation.

 

[vorky]

Yakupov could have signed with another team if he didn't want a 5 year contract. Yakupov has stated many times he came over since he wants to show he wants to play in the NHL.

You admit Niederreiter made the right choice, and LOL at Landeskog made a mistake coming over. It's clear you don't have a clue about him. Every informed person says Landeskog made a great decision to come over. His game is so much more developed then when he left Sweden. He plays a North American game, not a Swedish game.

And for Burmistrov it clearly was the right decision.

It's funny how its only Euro posters who aren't involved with anything that claim it's "bad. It's pretty it's jelously that instead of staying they leave to further their career elsewhere.

There is absoulutely nothing wrong with Euros coming to the CHL. And there's nothing wrong with the ones that stay. Have you ever heard anyone actually involved with hockey say Euros should stay? Don't think so. That IIHF study was just numbers, not an actually observation.

Yakupov could not sign with another team, just learn KHL rule.

Yes, I know so many people who recommend Europeans to stay at home until they are ready. IIHF is one of sources

 

[pouskin74*]

Did Yakupov do best when moved to CHL? Would not be better for him to develop at home? Look at Kucherov, Grigorenko, Gusev, Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Bobrovsky...

again you better look how good season he had in OHL! and he was pretty good at U18 as well. at the begin he had some problems in there but in the end he was very good again.