My take on what is needed to improve

Discussion in 'Chicago Blackhawks' started by Bubba88, Sep 28, 2018.

  1. Bubba88

    Bubba88 Toews = Savior

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    29,116
    Likes Received:
    196
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Location:
    Bavaria
    I'm not thinking going to grade the off-season. I'm not taking another outlook.

    I'm just thinking about what is lacking. I know those guys make millions and that alone is reason enough to play.
    I don't want to say fire Q or Stan or both and don't want it to end up in a conversation like this.

    I think the biggest problem is mental. I think there needs to be more of a fire, something that drives them more.
    This team once was pissed off seeing the Kings take away their Cup. They went nuts after losing to the Yotes in what was quite a bit embarrassing.

    You could see it, it was just a feeling you got.

    Now it looks like they don't reach that level. It didn't when they got swept against a 8th seed and I have my doubts they do it this year.

    How can they set that fire again? Is it something they can't do any more? Is it a true Core member who has to go? Is it the FO?
    I don't know, but I'd want to have a young player that steps it up and take it to the Vets. A player that has this drive.
    Maybe it was missing the POs.
     
    KennyWharramPeace likes this.
  2. crazyhawk

    crazyhawk Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gatineau Hills, Quebec
    It's been talked about on these boards many times over the past few years but I really do think it's a combination of the hard miles on the bodies of Toews, Keith, Seabs, Hammer ( while here ) and now Crow and the fact that they have won 3 cups. Think about it ... you have put your body and mind through 3 world wars not to mention the other two WCF's and come out victorious three times. Where would there be the motivation to put your body through that level of sacrifice again? To be legitimately called a dynasty? That's the only thing I can come up with. They have climbed the mountain, attained the Grail, the most difficult sports championship to win and they did it 3 times! Not only will there be the real physical limitation of the body showing wear and tear but the mind just won't be able to convince the body to do it again. The only hope for another cup run is for the rookies to gel and carry the vets oh and Kaner is of course the anomaly ... the only one of the original core to still love playing for the sake of playing ... doesn't hurt that he plays a style of play that takes a lesser toll on the body. Maybe in a couple of years with Kane and Toews in their twilight and some high picks coming in we may be able to take a swing again ...
     
    valeriammm and TheDoorDoctor like this.
  3. piteus

    piteus Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    7,293
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    NYC
    Better players. The Hawks aren't that skilled.
     
    Kaners Bald Spot, b1e9a8r5s and Enyaw like this.
  4. featherhawk

    featherhawk Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,958
    Likes Received:
    543
    Trophy Points:
    139
    desire is most certainly part of the problem in addition to the hard miles as you described in the OP.

    IMO the two main reasons are having a system that is now inept and not effective for the present day NHL and a coach that continues to try and put square pegs in round holes in that defunct system.

    It doesn't matter if its parenting, coaching at any level, providing care for the elderly/addicted/mental health/sick kids etc. The strengths of the individual need to be identified and utilized as a base for success, unfortunately Q does not always do that, in fact he often suppresses the players strengths and actually forces the player into a position that exacerbates the weaknesses that they have and that is a recipe for failure 110% of the time. This does include the likes of Toews, keith, sea brook etc that are not what they once were, the coach does not recognize that they are not capable of doing what they used to do and needs to temper expectations and adjust accordingly but won't.

    Keith consistently on the PP is just one of the glaring examples of how Q is setting Keith and indirectly the hawks up for failure. Keith should NEVER (in the past two years) be on the PP and that has been the case for the past couple seasons but Q wants him and the hawks to fail or he does not understand strengths and weaknesses.

    Q would benefit from reading and understanding what Appreciative Inquiry is, it would shed light on his own deficiencies as a coach.

    If you fix that problem this hawks team will have the opportunity to grow, learn and be effective once again, until then the hawks are just killing any progress that they could make with a rebuild.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
    djeck42 and KennyWharramPeace like this.
  5. Pez68

    Pez68 Crawl Seabrook, Crawl.

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    4,567
    Likes Received:
    2,515
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    They need a new coaching staff.... Nothing motivates players or jump starts a team better than a new voice, new systems, and a new approach.

    From the little preseason action I watched, it looks like they MIGHT be adjusting their systems slightly. I saw a lot more defense jumping up into the play, skating the puck up, and cycling in the offensive zone. But that might just be because it is preseason and they are having fun. Hawks looked different in the first few games last season, too. Then back to the antiquated systems.
     
    KennyWharramPeace likes this.
  6. valeriammm

    valeriammm Bourbon Bit*h

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Chicago
    I agree with CrazyHawk, these guys have seen years of work and its payed off so its to the point where how much is left for them to give? No one doubts what Kane, Toews, and Seabrook can do or did their names are huge for a reason, but I just think its time to polish up some new kids and pull in a younger group who can compliment the core as we see their inevitable exit. I dont blame Q either, if anything im wondering where the hell the other Debrincats are?
     
    KennyWharramPeace likes this.
  7. valeriammm

    valeriammm Bourbon Bit*h

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    42
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Chicago
    Also maybe a rise in defense? I dont doubt the amount of goals the hawks are capable of putting up, but there doesnt seem to be a stable defense especially in the tendy dept. I was maybe too optimistic for those pre games against Florida and Ottawa this week, but I think it also confirmed my beliefs in this statement
     
  8. Hawkaholic

    Hawkaholic Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2006
    Messages:
    21,458
    Likes Received:
    1,467
    Trophy Points:
    169
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    Ignoring the coaching and management entirely.

    The team needs more talent, plain and simple. Look at our group and compare it to the top teams in the league. We can compete with the top teams first 4 forwards, but that's basically it.
    Kane, Toews, Schmaltz, and Debrincat are a strong group of forwards. After that it gets ugly.

    On defense, yeah, if Keith goes back to being a top pairing D, and Seabrook becomes a top 4 D again, we could compare with the bubble playoff teams on defense, maybe a couple of contenders with not so great D corps. That's a pretty big if though.
     
  9. x Tame Impala

    x Tame Impala Registered User

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    18,647
    Likes Received:
    1,069
    Trophy Points:
    139
    If attitude is an issue, I think it's still behind coaching and roster strength in terms of what needs to be fixed in order to be a cup contender again. Toews, Seabrook, Kieth, etc...can care as much as they want (and I believe they do still care a lot) it doesn't change the lack of talented depth and/or coaching decisions that've been hurting this team since 2016
     
  10. Pez68

    Pez68 Crawl Seabrook, Crawl.

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2010
    Messages:
    4,567
    Likes Received:
    2,515
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Obviously their defense needs work, but the help is coming. They have a ton of young D prospects in the pipeline. Quite a few with major upside(Boqvist is going to be elite). The Crawford situation really set them back, because he was the caliber of goaltender that could cover up for a lot of the defensive deficiencies until help came.
     
  11. Robsker

    Robsker Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    905
    Likes Received:
    116
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Bingo. Nothing instills hope like a new system with a new coach and with the new attitude.

    This was the staggering mistake made by the Hawks higher-ups --- Q should have been "promoted" out of the coaching position at the end of last season and a new, modern system with a new modern coach (and staff) installed for this season.

    With Q we will get the same ol same ol boring, non-competitive hockey and the same interviews after each game. Nothing will change and no progress will be made (or little progress will be made) until the system (coach) is changed.
     
    KennyWharramPeace likes this.
  12. Toews2Bickell

    Toews2Bickell It's Showtime

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Messages:
    9,526
    Likes Received:
    2,621
    Trophy Points:
    126
    The best thing that can happen this season imo is they start off badly, Q is gone by Jan 1, they promote Colliton and he has a few months to assesss the team heading into the off-season (this is critical). Hawks miss playoffs and draft an impact forward in the top 10. Bowman and Colliton work in UNISON to build a team that matches their philosophies. They move out the players Colliton does not like - maybe AA, Murphy, Manning, Saad, etc. Youth movement comes next year with top 10 pick and D crop drafted last two years and they add a big piece via UFA and the team is back to being a legit playoff contender.

    Worst case scenario is they linger around 8-10 and miss playoffs, draft outside top 10 and Colliton doesnt have opportuity to see what we already have. Q has no future here and firing him in the summer of 2019 prolongs the inevitable.
     
  13. featherhawk

    featherhawk Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,958
    Likes Received:
    543
    Trophy Points:
    139
    I agree and have said this many times. The best thing that can happen to the hawks organization this year is to start 0-20. The coach and perhaps the gm could be relieved of duties

    Q will never ever lead this team to high levels of success again that is blatantly obvious. Yes three cups I get that and thank q for that but it’s time to cut your losses
     
  14. crazyhawk

    crazyhawk Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    198
    Trophy Points:
    81
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gatineau Hills, Quebec
    You have a good point Robsker and I don't doubt that a new system and new voice ( coach ) would make a difference but I wonder to what degree especially with Toews, Seabrook and Keith primarily and Kane to a lesser degree. Imagine you have gone though all that is involved to climb Mount Everest, all the training, all the planning, all the preparation and then the climb and say you attempted it every year for the past 9 years. And you actually got close two of those 9 and actually made it on 3 attempts while falling short on 4 or 5 other attempts ( cause well you're human! ) and now consider that it's another year and yup you're going to climb Everest again .. only this time you have a new trainer/coach to help direct you and your team up. Do you think it will make a big difference? Some I'm sure but the body can only do so much. Again I agree, a new system is due and I for one am excited to see that come ( thank you Q for all you have provided ) but what will get us to the promise land again is a new young core ... and we can only hope that happens soon enough that our old core can still be part of it!
     
    KennyWharramPeace and Robsker like this.
  15. Esq

    Esq in terrorem Sponsor

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Messages:
    5,817
    Likes Received:
    464
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    The Village in the City
    Hawks problem is easy to diagnose.

    Assuming we generously anoint Keith as a #1, we have no #2 defenseman, we have no #3 defenseman, and Murphy / Seabrook fight it out for #4 and #5.

    The winning Hawks teams had the puck the entire time because our defense never got pinned down in our own zone. We made quick plays and our D could skate.

    Not so anymore.
     
    KennyWharramPeace likes this.
  16. RayP

    RayP Registered Homeless

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    78,457
    Likes Received:
    2,166
    Trophy Points:
    156
    It’s been forever since we’ve regularly seen a good stretch pass out of our own zone it seems like.
     
  17. Kaners Bald Spot

    Kaners Bald Spot #Lose for Hughes #Crapo for Kakko

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,181
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Location:
    Far West Chicagoland
    So what does everyone think Boqvist's ceiling is? Klingberg, Karlsson or someone in between.
     
  18. hawksfan50

    hawksfan50 Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    8,105
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    169
    On the bother hand...it is painful to watch "cost certainty" provide Zilch...but Oanarin has 2g 1a tonight (so far...game not over )against Pitt for Columbus...It may take 20 games for Saad to have a 3point night...when he keeps giving Zilch..hard to say his body is tired at his age ...and he did not go through 3 Cups...But for $6.0 we get "cost certainty"...what good is Zero Value "Cost Certainty"...the brains at the top had a big fat. .The question is which lunkhead demanded we bring g Saad back to help Toes. ..which has Failed...and now he Fails also to even keep a top 6 spit?

    So how many albatross contracts can a team survive?

    We hope Toes has a rebound year after 3 consecutive clunkers. ..but the over under for Toes and his rebound improvement has been set by the bookies at 58.0 ...This means going from 52 to 58 poi ts expectation by these odds-nakers implies that his rebound year just gets him back to the same liusyv58 points he had in the 2 seasons after our last Cup ..

    Hardly a rebound...6 more points. ..hardly worth $10.5 if that is all folks..

    So if he improves to just 58 again (say the experts) AND IF Saad provides worse than even last season (as he has had a lousy pre-season and camp..hardly beating any goalies and bwi g demoted down to line 3 by Q already ...if we get this Zilch for $6.0 ...the again $16.5 million is providing lousy ROI ...

    These are just 2 examples where we expect extraordinary return on investment but at best can expect or are he thing only "ordinary" performance/production from a big chunk of our cap ..You expect the grill ts earning but kiss to make up for the poor ROI of the 2 alleged 'stars" who I have singled out above?

    How can we win if they are merely ordinary and not extraordinary?

    WE CANNOT ..


    Look...your stars gotta star..simple as that ..they guys you pay a lot for cannot be disappointing..I'd they ate. .we are Dooomed.


    And if they are no longer "stars"..you move them...if you can...They must EARN their pay level..this is where it starts ...If they cannot justify their pay level anymore they do not belong here anymore...It is that simple.
     

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"