My rankings of LW by era

[arrbez]

Is this all based on the assumption that nobody ever scored while Bob Gainey was on the ice? A team full of Guy Lafleur would destroy Team Gainey. That "best player in the world" quote just isn't accurate. Bob Gainey wasn't the best in the world, or even on his own team. It does lead to him being overrated.

 

[toastman344*]

Well I was speaking , partly , tongue in cheek...Just as it seemed equally OBVIOUS that Pappyline was when he said THE BEST ...Those 18 Bob Gainey's could hope for was for every game to end 0-0...as if Bob Gainey ( much less 18 Bob Gainey's ) NEVER SCORED A GOAL ??? Plus I only said they would win most games roughly 1-0

Clearly...They could also win games 2-0 , 2-1, 3-2 ...what have u...Hell they could even lose the odd game...although I'd still take 18 Gainey's over 18 Baber's

I was just relating an interesting and IMO ' telling ' quote from Ken Dryden...who was certainly in a good position to assess Bob Gainey's merits...

It was pure fantasy....Let's not get all bent outa shape here eh ???

 

[toastman344*]

arrbez:

That "best player in the world" quote just isn't accurate.

The quote IS most assuredly accurate...it is NOT a MISQUOTE...several members of team CCCP DID make this commentary...BUT...NB* I made it very clear that this WAS an Exaggeration, and that they ( the Soviets ) were clearly, incorrect in their assesment...

My only point was that Gainey would make many people's All Time ...Team Canada lineups...MINE INCLUDED...Doubtless Ken Dryden's as well...

U take Umbrage with that ???

 

[toastman344*]

I had recalled that Soviet quote, vis a vis Bob Gainey...strictly from memory..BUT...since some here have repeatedly and ERRONEOUSLY Questioned its veracity...I decided to do a quick Internet Search...It took me all of 30 seconds to find that noted International Hockey afficionado and writer Joe Pelletier recalled this as well:

Here's a blurb written by J.P. , pertaining to Game 1 of the 1979 Challenge CuP...Note Bien Bob Gainey also scored in this game

Joe Pelletier wrote :

The game opened up with a long pre-game ceremonial show. The Canadian, American and Soviet anthems were played before 17, 438 fans. Bobby Orr then hobbled out to center ice to drop the ceremonial first puck. The teams then exchanged gifts, as is customary in international hockey.

Team NHL jumped out to a quick lead. A line of Steve Shutt, Bobby Clarke and Guy Lafleur won the opening faceoff and quickly advanced into the Soviet zone. Somehow Lafleur, generally considered to be the most dangerous offensive player for Team NHL, was somehow left all alone. Clarke was able to shovel the puck in his direction. Lafleur calmed the puck and streaked in on Soviet goaltender Vladislav Tretiak. Lafleur deposited the puck past Tretiak on the near side just 16 seconds into the game.

The goal was the fastest ever scored in NHL-Soviet exhibition games. It also proved to be the devastating blow of the game, as the Soviets never recovered from the first play of the game.

Mike Bossy finished off a dazzling Gilbert Perreault play at 6:22. Perreault zoomed down center ice and split the Soviet defense, only to surprise everyone with a behind the back pass to an open Bossy who simply tipped the puck into the net.

The quick start by Team NHL was strikingly reminiscent of Team Canada's quick start against the Soviets in the 1972 Summit Series. In the opening game in 1972 Canada scored 30 seconds into the game and scored 6 minutes later to take a convincing 2-0 lead. However the Soviets calmed down and proceed to shock Team Canada with a 7-3 victory.

The Soviets would not be able to repeat those feats in 1979. Team captain Boris Mikhailov banged in a rebound at 11:25, BUT BOB GAINEY REPLIED MINUTES LATER. GAINEY, ONCE CALLED THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD BY THE SOVIETS, MUSCLED HIS WAY PAST TWO SOVIET DEFENSEMEN AND FLIPPING THE PUCK OVER TRETIAK'S LEFT SHOULDER.

Clark Gillies finished off a strong Mike Bossy effort to give the NHL a 4-1 lead in the second period. Vladimir Golikov rounded out the scoring early in the third period.

Not surprisingly, the NHL dressing room was full of joy and confidence. The only person who seemed to be cautioning reporters was team general manager Bill Torrey. "You wait and see. The Russians can adjust. They're in this to be the best...and they can adjust. You'll see."
February 8, 1979 - NHL All Stars 4 - USSR 2

First Period
1-NHL Guy Lafleur (Bobby Clarke, Steve Shutt) 0:16
2-NHL Mike Bossy (Gilbert Perreault, Guy Lafleur) 6:42
3-USSR Boris Mikhailov (Valeri Vasiliev, Valeri Kharlamov 11:25
4-NHL BOB GAINEY (Bill Barber , Barry Beck) 15:48
Penalties: Viktor Zhluktov 0:59, Vladimir Petrov 5:13, Lanny McDonald 8:31, Clark Gillies 10:59, Viktor Zhluktov 12:21

Second Period
5-Clark Gillies (Mike Bossy) 8:14
Penalties: Gennady Tsygankov 10:58

Third Period
6-USSR Vladimir Golikov (Aleksandr Golikov, Sergei Makarov) 3:02
Penalties: None

Shots on goal:
Soviet Union: 6 5 9 - 20
NHL All Stars: 10 9 5 - 24

Goalies:
Vladislav Tretiak (20/24) 60 minutes, 4 goals against
Ken Dryden (18/20) 60 minutes, 2 goals against

' Mistaken' was I ? It is TOO LAUGH !

CHEERS ET AL

p.s. here's the link : http://legendsofhockey.blogspot.com/search/label/1979 Challenge Cup

 

[BM67]

They aren't saying that Gainey wasn't called the best player in the world, just that he wasn't the best player in the world. It was said, but that doesn't make it true.

Barber in his 12 year career scored 420 goals. In his 16 year career Gainey had 502 points. So on average Barber had more goals than Gainey had points per year. If Barber was a one dimensional scorer, then maybe Gainey would be better, but the fact is that Barber was a strong all-around player.

 

[toastman344*]

They aren't saying that Gainey wasn't called the best player in the world, just that he wasn't the best player in the world. It was said, but that doesn't make it true.

Some DID question wether the quote was accurate...I merely demonstrated that it was ...I also asserted in my very first post in this thread...That Bob Gainey Wasn't The Best Player in the World ! But Surely....That Goes Without Saying...

I wonder who Scotty Bowman would Pick if he had a choice between Barber and Gainey...I ‘d lay heavy odds he'd pick Gainey...Barber wouldn't make many people's All Time Team Canada Lineups either...But Gainey Certainly Would... Bob wasn't expected to score goals...that wasn't his role...Barber was expected to score...BUT...That Doesn't prove Barber was better either...

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I wonder who Scotty Bowman would Pick if he had a choice between Barber and Gainey...I ‘d lay heavy odds he'd pick Gainey...Barber wouldn't make many people's All Time Team Canada Lineups either...But Gainey Certainly Would... Bob wasn't expected to score goals...that wasn't his role...Barber was expected to score...BUT...That Doesn't prove Barber was better either...

Neither one should be on an all-time Team Canada line-up.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

One of them played in all situations, the other did not.

Barber, while not the defensive player Gainey was, also was an excellent defensively and an outstanding penalty killer.

Bareber is also going to score you 35 goals or more .. and play the point on the power play.

I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying, if you view Gainey as a game breaking defensive player. Then it is reasonable to say he's better than Barber, because while Barber was an excellent all round 1st liner, he wasn't a game breaking talent.

As it stands there are probably no forwards who are game breaking defensive talents, but, there are defensemen, Chelios being the best recent example.

For the record, Tikhonov said, "I consider Gainey the world's best all-around player."

 

[toastman344*]

JFK whoops JFF wrote:

Neither one should be on an all-time Team Canada line-up.

Actually, I'm Dead certain that Gainey WOULD make our All Time Team Canuck Lineup...if u were to Poll Ex Players n Coaches...Whereas, Barber would'nt have a Snowflakes Chance in Hell...Why Do U think Those Ex Commies/CCCPers called Gainey the Best Ever...Intrigue ? A Red Army Plot ? Smoke N Mirrors ? Hardly...Simply A Recognition of The Impact Gainey DID HAVE in a Team Canada Jersey !

This Isn't Some CCCP Cold War Conspiracy...Although I Believe There IS a Blurry Bob Gainey...Behind the Grassy Knoll

CHEERS

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Bob Gainey above one of Bobby Hull, Ted Lindsay, Frank Mahovalich or Dickie Moore? You're joking right?

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I don't disagree with you, I'm just saying, if you view Gainey as a game breaking defensive player. Then it is reasonable to say he's better than Barber, because while Barber was an excellent all round 1st liner, he wasn't a game breaking talent.

As it stands there are probably no forwards who are game breaking defensive talents, but, there are defensemen, Chelios being the best recent example.

For the record, Tikhonov said, "I consider Gainey the world's best all-around player."

I certainly wouldn't consider Gainey, or any other forward a "game-breaker" for their defensive work.

Looking at it I'd say:

Barber gets a huge edge on the power play.
Gainey get the edge on the penalty kill.
Barber gets the edge at even strength.

 

[toastman344*]

Bob Gainey above one of Bobby Hull, Ted Lindsay, Frank Mahovalich or Dickie Moore? You're joking right?

Bob Gainey above one of Bobby Hull, Ted Lindsay, Frank Mahovalich or Dickie Moore? You're joking right?

If Ur Addressing that comment to me ??? Moore and Lindsay Never Wore Team Canada Colors...So When I talk about All Time Team Canada Lineups... I was referring to the Best 4 All time LW's who actually Have Worn T.C. Uniforms...Hull deserves to be there...So too, IMO ( and again if u were to ask the Russians and some others ) does Gainey....The Big M does NOT Belong there...He wasn't all that effective in 1972 !

The Selke Award owes its very existence to Gainey...He was a Defensive Specialist...and YET...HE WAS ALSO A GAME BREAKER ! imo