My letter to the NHLPA

[Hoek]

The NHL is committing human rights violations against the players by lowering their average salary to $1.3 million! We might fight to the death against this travesty of social justice!

Give me a ****ing break. You can be pro-player without being that idiotically dramatic.

There are athletes out there who wish they could be paid as much as NHLers and have much more of a claim to it than they do.

 

[Ar-too]

No, they'd turn it over and use it to take notes to save on paper supplies.

I've been listening to Newsguyone for a while and I'm pretty sure that the NHL would turn it over and use it to sign the death orders for starving baby seals.

 

[Mess]

.....

Excluding of course their Franchise Values tripling in the meantime of the next few years ..being considered scraps of course .

Should that not also be considered as part of the financial picture here .. If the owners are just breaking even at the gates when dividing up the 2.1 Bil revenue considered the cost of doing business, but in turn are seeing their initial investment triple in franchise value .. Is that not or should it not be taken into consideration as well in the big picture ??

If I am a home owner and on my yearly salary I live paycheque to paycheque just breaking even after property taxes, mortgage payments, interest, fire insurance, repairs etc . but each year my home goes up in value as a result ... Am I not increasing my net worth and financial picture despite breaking even day to day .. ??

 

[Chileiceman]

When they see other Pro Athletes in other sports making Big $$ they to feel they deserve to be recognized for the sacrifice they make to themselves to entertain the fans..

Other then possibly Football, the chance for injury due to the Sport makes Hockey either first of second on the list.. That in turn leads to a shorter Career as a result.

A Baseball player can play for years and years to earn his living while a Pro Hockey player's window is small in comparison, and as a result they feel they should be compensated for that..

Could this be because the NHL makes way less money than the other leagues.
Has that ever crossed your mind?

If they want their children or friends children to have an opportunity to play the game they love in the Future and make a decent living at it then this fight does have meaning and NO HARD CAP stance and position understandable from their perspective..

Making millions is not a decent living for you? Are you by chance Mike Modano?

Canada will always be fine as its our national sport ..However for the long term future of growing the game in the USA there has to be a Financial reward at the end of the Rainbow for the young kids just starting out.

If the other BIG 3 sports in the States Football, Basketball and Baseball all offer considerably more Financial reward and long term employment, then what would motivate parents to enrol and kids to choose Hockey rather then one of the others, considering it would already be going against the norm and popularity vote ??

Most kids get to pick what sport they want to play. Even if they don't the would parents enroll their kids in a sport not thinking that they would become pro athletes. I'm sure it's never going to happen when a parent tells his kid that he can't play hockey because he doesn't make enough millions even though it's the sport he loves.

This is just one Battle ..the War is actually much bigger and the events and outcomes of this far more long term impacting.

Why don't we just call it world war 3?

 

[ti-vite]

There is a significant difference between franchise value and what you obtain from sale.

How were the latest sell offs of franchises (or parts of) and arenas included compared to their 'paper values': PEANUTS.

 

[Ar-too]

Making millions is not a decent living for you? Are you by chance Mike Modano?

Hey man, pro atheletes may make a lot of money, but they spend a lot of money too.

 

[Digger12]

Considering their relative importance to the North American sports landscape, NHL hockey players have no business making anywhere close to the average salary they make now...if anything, they should be closer to the NLL than the NBA.

They're not just 4th...they're a DISTANT 4th. Some could even argue they're not deserving of even that distinction.

Perhaps if they were playing a sport that actually managed to entertain the general populace and bring in TV ratings that didn't get eclipsed by dog shows, they'd be deserving of 'Pro Player' salaries.

The simple truth of it is: The last 10 years was an unprecedented spike, but that's all it was: A spike.

The money's run out...and these poor deluded fools seem to be the last ones to realize it.

 

[Chileiceman]

Hey man, pro atheletes may make a lot of money, but they spend a lot of money too.

And I suppose it's the owners fault that they spend a lot of money.

 

[Dr Love]

They're not just 4th...they're a DISTANT 4th. Some could even argue they're not deserving of even that distinction.

No, they're 6th in pro sports, 8th in all sports. Golf, NASCAR, college football, and college basketball are more popular.

 

[Ar-too]

No, they're 6th in pro sports, 8th in all sports. Golf, NASCAR, college football, and college basketball are more popular.

I wonder what happens to that number if you factor in poker, college baseball, extreme sports, strongman competitions...

 

[Dr Love]

I wonder what happens to that number if you factor in poker, college baseball, extreme sports, strongman competitions...

Well, I am going by seasonal, regularly televised sports. So stuff like bowling, the College Word Series... that doesn't count in my book because it's not on every week at the same time, and thus it gets boosts in ratings. And poker isn't a sport. NASCAR isn't really either but it's seasonal, regularly televisied team competition, so that's good enough.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

No, they're 6th in pro sports, 8th in all sports. Golf, NASCAR, college football, and college basketball are more popular.

The question is not the current ratings. I think that everyone can agree they suck big time. The question is whether the fundementals of the sport will allow growth, isn't it? In the early to mid-90's the NHL was the hot up and coming sport. There was an excitement about the sport, and it was growing. Hell, I even remember Snoop Doggie Dog used to wear a Pens sweater in his videos. I think that those calling for contraction and similar have pretty much in their minds relegated the sport to perpetual second class statue, believing that the fundementals will never translate nationally. I disagree, fix the fundementals league wide with a viable salary cap, then fix the game as other successful sports do. The recipe is pretty simple, allow scoring and lots of it. Change rules as needed to accomplish that. NFL and NBA has done that for years.

Now I may be wrong, those who relegate the NHL to second class sport forever may be right, but isn't it worth doing the above and giving it a five year try to see if it works?

As a ps, I was thinking recently of cities where there are baseball teams that really have been relegated to virtual perpetual second class teams, about half the teams in baseball actually. I think that if hockey does get its act together they could cut into baseball, at least when the seasons overlap. If your team is going nowhere and the local hockey team is in the midst of a nice run, in April, May, I could very well see hockey winning the battle for your entertainment $$$ in those months. Which would the average fan want to see? A baseball team with a $35 million or $40 million payroll (or less) who has no chance to get into or beat a Yankees team with 8 times their payroll or a hockey team that actually can compete. Long term I do not see how hockey can not pick up fans at baseball's expense if hockey gets its act together and baseball does not.

 

[Enoch]

RE: Messenger garbage

Did you just compare someone dying for their country during a war to the NHLPAs stance!?

Did you just metion fighting for a 'decent' living!?

Did you just mention parents enroll kids in sports based on possible payouts in pro leagues?!

Are all your posts this rediculous?

 

[Dr Love]

The question is not the current ratings. I think that everyone can agree they suck big time.

I wasn't using ratings to justify that college basketball, college football, golf, and NASCAR are more popular. I was using ratings to show that bowling, gynastics, and the like are 'inflated' because they aren't on every week.

The question is whether the fundementals of the sport will allow growth, isn't it?

It is. And frankly, the growth of hockey is limited due to the prices of equipment and rink time. Sure, there's street hockey but that's still more expensive than football and basketball. How limited is up for debate, but it's easier to get a few friends together for a game of football or basketball than for a game of hockey. Of course, baseball has a similar problem in that there is a greater need for equipment, but diamonds are abundant at playgrounds, street hockey rinks aren't.

In the early to mid-90's the NHL was the hot up and coming sport. There was an excitement about the sport, and it was growing. Hell, I even remember Snoop Doggie Dog used to wear a Pens sweater in his videos. I think that those calling for contraction and similar have pretty much in their minds relegated the sport to perpetual second class statue, believing that the fundementals will never translate nationally.

Well, the NHL IS a second tier sport in the US right now. I wish it weren't, but that's the reality of it. When you have a no pay national TV contract, (realatively) little public outcry for a season cancellation, and franchises that the average sports fan doesn't know, you're a second tier sport. I don't like it, but that's the reality.

I disagree, fix the fundementals league wide with a viable salary cap, then fix the game as other successful sports do. The recipe is pretty simple, allow scoring and lots of it. Change rules as needed to accomplish that. NFL and NBA has done that for years.

Completely agree. Hockey can become a first rate sport in the eyes of the public with the proper adjustments. But it's going to take time. The NBA and NFL didn't become so popular overnight. And also, there is some degree of luck in terms of having the right players. The NBA took off with Bird and Magic, the Super Bowl got big because of Joe Namath, the NHL needs something like another Wayne/Mario tandem, hopefully Crosby/Ovechkin can be that if the hype is real. But they can't force it, they can't sell us two star players as being more than they really are.

Now I may be wrong, those who relegate the NHL to second class sport forever may be right, but isn't it worth doing the above and giving it a five year try to see if it works?

If you're looking for an argument, you've got the wrong guy. Shocking, I know!

As a ps, I was thinking recently of cities where there are baseball teams that really have been relegated to virtual perpetual second class teams, about half the teams in baseball actually. I think that if hockey does get its act together they could cut into baseball, at least when the seasons overlap. If your team is going nowhere and the local hockey team is in the midst of a nice run, in April, May, I could very well see hockey winning the battle for your entertainment $$$ in those months. Which would the average fan want to see? A baseball team with a $35 million or $40 million payroll (or less) who has no chance to get into or beat a Yankees team with 8 times their payroll or a hockey team that actually can compete. Long term I do not see how hockey can not pick up fans at baseball's expense if hockey gets its act together and baseball does not.

A good point, but one that requires a lot of things out of people's control. Nice post JF.

 

[PecaFan]

I've been listening to Newsguyone for a while and I'm pretty sure that the NHL would turn it over and use it to sign the death orders for starving baby seals.

No no no, they don't *starve* them. They bash their heads in with balance sheets!

Well, I am going by seasonal, regularly televised sports. So stuff like bowling, the College Word Series... that doesn't count in my book because it's not on every week at the same time, and thus it gets boosts in ratings.

Good thing, because otherwise they'd be *waaay* down the list. Evidently the dog show the other day beat the Stanley Cup Finals in ratings in the US.

 

[Dr Love]

Good thing, because otherwise they'd be *waaay* down the list. Evidently the dog show the other day beat the Stanley Cup Finals in ratings in the US.

I bet you the dog show beat the NBA Finals ratings when it was Lakers/Nets and Spurs/Nets. Dog show isn't sport, it's specialty programming, and draws from all kinds of demographics. How many women actively watch sports? Some, but not a lot. How many women actively watch dog shows? More than watch sports.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Nice post JF.

Next we move on to solving the mid-east situation.

 

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Of course, baseball has a similar problem in that there is a greater need for equipment, but diamonds are abundant at playgrounds, street hockey rinks aren't.

Huh?

Look out your front window. See that paved stretch of area called a street? Add a few old coffee cans and BOOM! Street Hockey rink.

Otherwise I agree with everything you said.

 

[Dr Love]

Huh?

Look out your front window. See that paved stretch of area called a street? Add a few old coffee cans and BOOM! Street Hockey rink.

Otherwise I agree with everything you said.

Coffee cans/trash cans aren't nets though, but it's little difference. And even then, everyone needs a stick. You only need one football or basketball.

 

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Coffee cans/trash cans aren't nets though, but it's little difference. And even then, everyone needs a stick. You only need one football or basketball.

Now that I agree with. I personally had 3 sticks that I always brought out for street hockey just in case someone needed to borrow. But In many cases there just wasn't enough sticks for everyone.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The NBA took off with Bird and Magic, the Super Bowl got big because of Joe Namath, the NHL needs something like another Wayne/Mario tandem, hopefully Crosby/Ovechkin can be that if the hype is real. But they can't force it, they can't sell us two star players as being more than they really are.

ps:

Crosby/Ovechkin? I kind of think that it would more likely be Crosby/Malkin, seeing how they likely will be on the same team. Besides, Malkin > AO anyways.

 

[Lanny'sDaMan]

ps:

Crosby/Ovechkin? I kind of think that it would more likely be Crosby/Malkin, seeing how they likely will be on the same team. Besides, Malkin > AO anyways.

Yes I am VERY Biased but I would argue Kipper/Iggy makes a flashy superstar tandem.

 

[Dr Love]

ps:

Crosby/Ovechkin? I kind of think that it would more likely be Crosby/Malkin, seeing how they likely will be on the same team. Besides, Malkin > AO anyways.

What? Wayne/Mario Bird/Johnson were never on the same team. It's not about two superstar teammates, it's about two superstars going up against each other. Kobe/Shaq did peanuts for the NBA's popularity compared to Larry Bird and Magic Johnson facing each other in the Finals.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

What? Wayne/Mario Bird/Johnson were never on the same team. It's not about two superstar teammates, it's about two superstars going up against each other. Kobe/Shaq did peanuts for the NBA's popularity compared to Larry Bird and Magic Johnson facing each other in the Finals.

I was yanking your chain Doc, though I certainly do hope that the Crosby thing breaks our way. I do agree that you need a rivalry to capture the imagination, and one embodied by two leading players on leading teams is all the better. I think that will develope no matter what. Hell, I can even agree with an example, Shaq and Kobe are a much beter story divided and against one another than they ever were together. Watching Miami/LA must generate huge ratings.

 

[Mess]

I have never been more disgusted as a hockey fan in my life as it's becoming more and more apparent that your union the past weekend used my love and devotion as a bargaining tool in a negotation war that you were losing. Honestly, I can't think of anything more disgusting that what you guys did.

I have always admired the NHL hockey player and one of the reasons I was a hockey fan first over any other sport was because I believed that you guys were warriors on ice who played that game for the love of it and not the all mighty dollar, something that before this lockout I felt was lost on the sports world except in the NHL, that you guys were the last frontier of playing the game for the love of it.

But you guys destroyed that in the worst possible way with your conduct in New York this past weekend by taking and using our dedication and love for the game and for that I'll never forgive you or care less if there is another NHL game to be ever played.

Take Care,

Ron Bolton

[url="http://www.nhlpa.com/feedback/index.asp"]http://www.nhlpa.com/feedback/index.asp[/url]

Final Meeting that took a very different course then expected

Do you guys want the Pro-Fan perspective of this last meeting ..

I can try to explain it from a neutral point of view as an observers what I believed happened ..and what went wrong.

Notice: I accept Gretzky at his word as 100% honest and that the NHL called the meeting on the request of the NHLPA and Bettman is clear of any wrong doing at all in this, as is Bob Goodenow as both did not attend nor effect the outcome of the meeting.

With that is was determined in Gretzky's own words that Bettman told him he was prepared to go to 45. Mil to get a deal done . So the NHL came to this meeting expecting a new proposal from the NHLPA ..and I am sure the 45 Mil was leaked out to the both sides new it going into the meeting with the possibility of 45 being the final number to get a deal done.

This the Agreement in principle thought by all going into this meeting ..

First some facts ..

Saskin has said many many times that the NHLPA needs to get in a room and discuss the issues and they do not believe in throwing proposals back and forth, but talk things through and negotiate on a new CBA..

Gretzky from the TSN report pulls Linden and Damphousse before the meeting is to begin and confirms that the NHL is prepared to go 45 mil. Linden and Vinny trust Gretzky and would not have gotten that from Daley or anyone else then from Mario or Wayne. This the first reason they were asked to attend..

So Far so good everyone is on the same page ...

The NHLPA is holding the Final Trump card and that is to put the 45.M on the table from the NHLPA side to get a deal done "In Principle" again..

but before playing the last card that would seal the deal, Damphousse as the story goes stands up and says "lets go over the other issues of the CBA FIRST and make sure we are on the same page and lets talk through or negotiate on Salary Arbitration, RFA Qualifying offers, UFA age, Entry level contracts and bonuses, Hard Cap Floor and most importantly meaningful long-term Revenue Sharing plan.

So that is the direction the meeting now takes .. and it is soon evident that both sides have varying degrees of differences on these issues .. Some on the main ones that have leaked out are or have been reported is that the NHLPA Revenue Sharing model is long term and the NHL is a 6 year plan that slowly decreases to Zero in the Final year. Okay Problem #1..can we resolve this today .. NO not likely ..

Then the last NHLPA proposal suggested a 25 Mil floor , and the last NHL offer had Zero in for the floor .. Problem # 2

and likely so on and so on some of the others issues ..however every thing on all other issues was not leaked out or was not reported yet. But certainly some other problems existed ..

So now both sides realized they still had work ahead .. Prompting the final comment by Saskin as the meeting broke up that we still have lots of differences on some big issues and they can't be resolved in time to save the 2004-05 season ..

However that is not likely how the NHLPA hoped the meeting would go as evident by the Press conference, scheduled later that day.

What the NHLPA hoped would have transpired was that Mario and Wayne's opinion on some of these issues would help bridge the gap in the discussions on these sub-issues. From the TSN report though it sounds like Wayne neither wanted to, or expected to get into that as he is not in a decision making position and Mario is in a conflict of interest position being both player and Owner ..but reason #2 the NHLPA wanted them there ..

Bottom Line : If these issues would have been agreed on in principle in the meeting and head way made ..then Saskin would have played the final card and said if the NHL is willing to meet the NHLPA at the 45.0 Mil Hard Cap then I believe we have a deal "In Principle" .. he would have reached across the table and shook Daley hand and ..

Saskin's final words would have been .. I will take this agreed upon items back and prepare a formal proposal for the NHLPA to the NHL based on today's discussions and..

then Let Gary and Bob go over it putting their final seal of approval on it and take it back to each side to vote upon .. Gentleman we have a Deal ..

However those difference (Revenue Sharing, Arbitration etc) were not resolved and the last card (45.m Hard Cap not played) and the meeting breaking off with Saskin's final words .. We are further apart then both sides thought ..

This makes Gretzky's TSN report fall in line as well as the NHL believing it was getting a New Proposal ,and a miscommunication of both sides as to the intent of the meeting, or at least that the differences could not be resolved on the issues ..

That leaves right were we are now ... The season not being uncancelled, and no need for the NHLPA to draw up the final proposal even though now the Hard Cap Ceiling figure is not the biggest issue preventing an agreement.

With the season gone as well, that took all the motivation out of the NHLPA side as its players would neither be playing or earning money this year, and no Stanley Cup Playoffs would be played.

Season lost and meeting a bust both sides left dejected ..and the "In Principle deal" never transpired ..

TSN REPORT:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.as...751&hubName=nhl