My 2 cents on the Habs taking Price and maguire being an idiot.....

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AlexCvm

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Like Brule would have cracked the Habs roster before he would be 21-22 or even 23....


Solid no 1 goltender for 4 to 6 years or someone that is likely to play on a 2,3rd line for 4 to 6 years.

Please stop whining about Carey Price.
 

Genghis Keon

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Caniacforever said:
Thibault was drafted by Quebec, and is now a starter for Chicago. No help there.

No help except that he was an integral part of the Roy trade which was why they won all their cups.

Roberto Luongo, as well all know, was drafted by the Islanders and subsequently traded away after that.

He was then traded for the first overall pick (a Mad Mike trade). Seems to have kept his value.

Dan Cloutier was drafted by the Rangers, and never did much work for them.

The Rags used to trade up to the four spot in the draft; unfortunately they picked Brendl.

That leaves Kolzig, Broduer,`and Biron as the only established goaltenders to be drafted, trained, and played at a high level by their respective franchise since 1987. Kolzig and Broduer are the only "Franchise" caliber goaltenders on that list at all. The rest, were given away for peanuts and went to thrive elsewhere.

Not all were given away for peanuts.

DiPietro and Fluery are still far away from the "Franchise" goaltender tag.

True, but I think they both hold a lot of value.
 

Vagrant

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Genghis Keon, the comment about given away for peanuts was a mistake on my part. Not all were given away below their value, but some were for sure. My original point remains that these goaltenders in particular, the actual selections, didn't have much of an impact for their team.
 

Cole Caulifield

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oilers_guy_eddie said:
Something else to consider: goalies usually take longer to develop. Most goalies aren't NHL regulars until they're in they are 25 or older. When the new UFA age moves down to 27, does spending a high pick on a goalie make a lot of sense?

Only if he's something special like Lehtonen and MAF.

If the habs management believe Price to be in that category it is a good idea to draft a goalie this high IMO.

Now, he's broken a lot of franchise records in Tri-City, has a great resume, trained with Kolzig all year long, looks strong mentally and mature for a 17 years old and really has great talent overall. The only time he's not performed up to the standards of his selection was in his 2nd U18. So it's not like the habs pulled a Setoguchi/Wheeler.

I was against the selection because of the very reason Mac brought up but if they believe he's that good than it was a good pick.
 

Garp

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A top forward for 8-10 years or a goalie for 2-3 years? what a stupid pick

So you think Brulé will play in NHL next year or even in two years. :shakehead

The guy is at least 3 years away from NHL. Maybe he'l play before that because he will be able to crack the weak Columbus lineup, but he wouldn't have played for habs before 3 or 4 years (minimum) and Price is maybe 4 or 5 year away from NHL. So yes I'd take 5 years of good goltending over 6 years of good goal scoring.
 

AlexCvm

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Garp said:
So you think Brulé will play in NHL next year or even in two years. :shakehead

The guy is at least 3 years away from NHL. Maybe he'l play before that because he will be able to crack the weak Columbus lineup, but he wouldn't have played for habs before 3 or 4 years (minimum) and Price is maybe 4 or 5 year away from NHL. So yes I'd take 5 years of good goltending over 6 years of good goal scoring.

Exactly what I was saying.
 

Poochie_D

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Carey Price at number 5 was a solid pick. Yes, the average general manager in the NHL would have probably picked Brule but the canadiens are exceptional at finding talent in young players. This kid is obivously something special if they take him over brule. I trust Trevor timmins ( director of player personel ) .... the same guy who drafted : Marian Hossa, Martin Havlat, Anton Volchencov, Jason Spezza, Wade Redden, Chris Philips. The guy has a very solid track record of drafting players and it would be stupid of Gainey to go agaisnt a guy who has the resume Trevor has. Maybe this kid will be someone one day... and if he does, Pierre Mcguire and most the hockey community will eat there words. :shakehead im not saying it was the best pick, but were not the ones getting paid the big bucks to make those decisions. If i was a GM and my top scouts were telling me price was the way to go, i wouldnt disagree.
 

NYRGoalieGlut*

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Caniacforever said:
Well, I didn't mean it was a bad pick for them at the time. It's a totally differant situation. At the time, the Rangers needed a goaltender in the worst way. They drafted one, but simply rushed him along. The pick was solid, the management of that pick after was the problem.

Blackburn wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire even before the injury, which proves that it takes a great deal of time, even for a talented prospect, to develop into something useable when it's a goaltender.

Blackburn played very well for his age, he definately wasn't behind other goalies his age, and probably ahead. He had a bad stretch his second year when he had to play a million games in a row without any backup help and he was tired. Him "struggling" with his time up as a lot of these analysts say is a misconception. People have to take his age and experience into account and not compare him with goalies with years of experience.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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Caniac got it right.

Goalies are a huge organisational headache. You need to find a place to play them, you need to wait for them. If you've got a glut you often have to trade them for peanuts.

The day following the draft is always the day team fans say "oh well, I was pissed but now I love the pick".

It's still a dumb pick.
 

Riggins

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Vlad The Impaler said:
The day following the draft is always the day team fans say "oh well, I was pissed but now I love the pick".

It's still a dumb pick.

I agree. My head almost exploded when the pick was made. I still dislike it but I'm not fuming anymore. Getting Price and Latendresse 1 and 2 is good but it seems like a blown opportunity.

Picking a goalie high makes even less sense now that the UFA age will be 27.

Apparently they really didn't like Brule. I was scared they would take Staal or Skille 5th but either one would look pretty good right now.
 

Atlas

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Price was a good pick in a weird draft. Like the guys from 1999 I think a lot of the top 10 guys drafted yesterday won't make it to the NHL. I think Price will.

#1 goalies are like #1 defensemen and #1 centers. The only real way to get them is through the draft.
 

Blind Gardien

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Vlad The Impaler said:
Caniac got it right.

Goalies are a huge organisational headache. You need to find a place to play them, you need to wait for them. If you've got a glut you often have to trade them for peanuts.

The day following the draft is always the day team fans say "oh well, I was pissed but now I love the pick".

It's still a dumb pick.
:clap: :bow:
 

turnbuckle*

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Good points John. I don't recall a mad exodus of goalies over the past few years when they became 31 years of age, and I don't expect it to be much different under the new CBA.

Teams usually look after their number one goalies or trade them away for decent return if they have a good replacement, and I expect the Habs to do the same. Bonk, Huet, Sundstrom, Lapierre was a decent return for two backups in Garon and a washed up Hackett, they'll be able to get even more for Theo if and when the time comes because they'll have Danis and Price knocking on the door.

Montreal always restocked its netminding when the time called for it, and the time called for it. The Habs organization has a reputation for giving its young 'star' goalies the reins rather quickly (Dryden, Roy, Penney (LOL), Theo to a lesser extent), who's to say Price won't be the man in a couple years if he continues to progress on schedule?

Even Buffalo, for all the heat they've taken for repeatedly taking goalies at one time, still has three good assets in Biron, Noronen and Miller. None, BTW, were as highly rated going into the draft as Price.

Hab fans scratched their heads when Theo and Garon were taken in the second round even though the Habs were set in goal with Roy. Well; NHL teams got tired of the Habs stealing goalies in the second and third rounds so they started taking more of them in the first, especially after Brodeur was taken 20th overall. Yes, many have been overrated, I don't happen to think Price is one of them.

It was time for the Habs to get the best goalie in a draft again, hopefully.. Let's hope Rask doesn't turn out better.
 

MS

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Vlad The Impaler said:
Caniac got it right.

Goalies are a huge organisational headache. You need to find a place to play them, you need to wait for them. If you've got a glut you often have to trade them for peanuts.

The day following the draft is always the day team fans say "oh well, I was pissed but now I love the pick".

It's still a dumb pick.

Agree completely.

The biggest myth about drafting goaltenders with high picks is that it's an important and necessary building block for a team. Couldn't be further from the truth - 4 of 30 NHL teams in 03-04 drafted their #1 goalie with a #1 pick, and only 1 of the top 15.

Brule will more than likely play in the NHL next year ... no way is he 2-3 years away as a couple people here have claimed. I'm not a huge fan of his on some intangible levels - dumb selfish play, swelled head - but his skating and shot are already more than NHL calibre, as is the energy he brings to the table and the pace he can play the game at.

Price is just not in the Luongo/Lehtonen/Fleury class to justify his selection this high ahead of the guys he was picked in front of.
 

turnbuckle*

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MS said:
Agree completely.

The biggest myth about drafting goaltenders with high picks is that it's an important and necessary building block for a team. Couldn't be further from the truth - 4 of 30 NHL teams in 03-04 drafted their #1 goalie with a #1 pick, and only 1 of the top 15..

What?

[/QUOTE]Brule will more than likely play in the NHL next year ... no way is he 2-3 years away as a couple people here have claimed. I'm not a huge fan of his on some intangible levels - dumb selfish play, swelled head - but his skating and shot are already more than NHL calibre, as is the energy he brings to the table and the pace he can play the game at. [/QUOTE]

I don't think many are disputing that Brule will play in columbus within a season; most are saying that he wouldn't have been playing in montreal for at least a couple of seasons, perhaps no sooner than price. I expect Price to push Danis for the backup position by next training camp, I wouldn't expect Brule to be pushing Koivu and Ribeiro for top-line center rights for at least two seasons. I think price would be on the Habs as quickly as Brule if they had chosen him; it's not that hard to understand - whether you agree with it or not is another thing.

[/QUOTE]Price is just not in the Luongo/Lehtonen/Fleury class to justify his selection this high ahead of the guys he was picked in front of.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how you can say that as if you know something nobody else does.. How often have you seen him play live; if you have was it in a scouting capacity? Didn't think so.....Fleury is far from a lock as a great goalie BTW, and he's three years older, so let's reserve judgement on him and Price for at least a couple more seasons for such brash statements. It's like saying Brule won't be as good as Dustin Brown...how the hell can we say for sure at this point?
 

Cole Caulifield

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MS said:
Price is just not in the Luongo/Lehtonen/Fleury class to justify his selection this high ahead of the guys he was picked in front of.

I'm really willing to accept this as the truth because very keepers are as good as this. Price's got very little hype for a guy who'd be tha good, altough hype means very little.

But you obviously have watched a lot of him in the dub, so what are the knocks on him that makes you say he's not in the above goalies class.
 

Greg7

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With the guys left on the board at #5, Price looks like a good pick to me from at least one point of view: imo, he was the bpa, or at least close enough to it to be considered the bpa depending on who you ask. The new CBA free agency rules, goalies in the organization, timeline for goalies development etc aside, Carey Price is a top flight goaltending prospect that is easily good enough to justify him being taken ahead of Brule and everyone else. Taking into account those other factors, maybe (MAYBE) things change, but just purely looking at the pick on a talent basis, I like it.

I also agree heartily that Brule would not be cracking the Canadiens lineup in the near future at centre, although I would suggest that he would probably have been converted to wing in Montreal. His skillset and attitude seem better suited to the wing than centre, although having gone to Columbus, he might end up sticking at centre.

Taking into account the Habs ability to develop goaltenders and the fact that Brule would probably have trouble cracking their lineup in the next couple of years (unlike Columbus), I generally like the pick.
 

Greg7

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MS said:
Price is just not in the Luongo/Lehtonen/Fleury class to justify his selection this high ahead of the guys he was picked in front of.
I STRONGLY disagree. I'm not saying that he'll turn out as good as these guys might, but I certainly think he has a chance to. I know you've seen him, probably the same amount as me, but you don't think he looks pretty nice right now? Very quick legs, incredible stickhandler, calm and cool in all situations, athletic, big, and positionally strong. He needs to get quicker, especially cross crease, but he has all the tools and the right demeanor to be a star.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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There's one more thing that annoys me about drafting a goalie that high this year (other than the CBA change). It's the new goalie rules.

I think it is a very brave gamble to draft a goalie. And it's even more so when you scouted him with equipment that will be different from what players will use from now on.

I don't believe in general statements such as "all big goalies will struggle, yadda, blah, blah...". But I do believe all goalies will be affected differently. Could make Price a better commodity, a worse one. I don't know.

But it strikes me as a gamble.

I think this year, I would have avoided goalies early even more than I usually do.
 

MS

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Greg7 said:
I STRONGLY disagree. I'm not saying that he'll turn out as good as these guys might, but I certainly think he has a chance to. I know you've seen him, probably the same amount as me, but you don't think he looks pretty nice right now? Very quick legs, incredible stickhandler, calm and cool in all situations, athletic, big, and positionally strong. He needs to get quicker, especially cross crease, but he has all the tools and the right demeanor to be a star.

I like Price. If I was an NHL GM drafting in the 10-15 range I would have strongly considered him, for all the reasons you list. Even though I really, really don't like drafting goaltenders highly. But #5 is just too big a stretch for me. Brule has a few warts, but I'd take him in my organization over Price in a heartbeat.

Lehtonen and Luongo were obscenely good at this age. Fleury too, although I've never been completely sold on him. Saying that Price isn't at that level doesn't mean I don't like him, but there's no way I can rate him up with those guys based on what I've seen. He's a big, solid, workhorse goaltender prospect but he's not dynamic or dominant at the level those guys were at the same age, IMO.
 

HabsFanInNB

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The Habs always built their teams from the net out. Plante, Worsley, Dryden, Roy, Theodore. A draft is to start stocking the team for 3-5 years down the road. Drafting a top notch goalie is consistent with Habs approach.

Gainey has played with and against some great NHL goalies. I think he knows what he is doing and this will be a great pick.

Just my humble opinion.
 

Gallagbi

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Price is a good prospect, but it wasn't a good move for the Habs. Brule or possibly Kopitar was the pick. I don't see a reason to pick Price. All I've heard is we'll trade him or Theo, or Theo will walk. You shouldn't let Theo walk. He's too good, sign and trade if you have to. Brule would've gathered more trade interest as a prospect, than Price, or you could've packaged some of these AHL "gems" you all speak so highly of. It'll take a few years to fully determine, but it's not a good pick. To say "he would've been picked within the next 2 spots" doesn't make it better. Would that be a viable excuse for picking Ryan over Crosby? Ryans a good prospect, he's big and talented. The Pens are deep at center with Lemieux, Malkin, Kraft. All 3 are scoring center, I don't suppose theres any room for another. These are excuses. The Habs got a really good goaltending prospect, but they could've done better from everything we've heard and seen about the prospects available.
 

jacketracket*

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Personally, I believe the Habs made the correct choice ...
 

turnbuckle*

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MS said:
I like Price. If I was an NHL GM drafting in the 10-15 range I would have strongly considered him, for all the reasons you list. Even though I really, really don't like drafting goaltenders highly. But #5 is just too big a stretch for me. Brule has a few warts, but I'd take him in my organization over Price in a heartbeat.

Lehtonen and Luongo were obscenely good at this age. Fleury too, although I've never been completely sold on him. Saying that Price isn't at that level doesn't mean I don't like him, but there's no way I can rate him up with those guys based on what I've seen. He's a big, solid, workhorse goaltender prospect but he's not dynamic or dominant at the level those guys were at the same age, IMO.


Actually, Fleury was not any better than Price at the same age; he was overhyped because of the QMJHL goaltending machine. Fleury has never come close to Price's stats except for his sophomore season, and was nine months older when he was drafted. He has a long way to go before he's a top ten goalie, so does Price.
As for him never being as good Lehtonen and Luongo, pretty lofty standards in Luongo's case. Even if he's juist a notch below that level, it would still make him a top ten goalie, perhaps even top five. I'll take that.


BTW - here's an article from another Hab board translated by Hab fans favourite clown; at least one scout has said he's the best junior goalie to be drafted in the past decade:


Carey Price, best junior goalie of the past decade?

François Lemenu
Canadian Press
Ottawa

The shock wave that the Montréal Canadiens caused by selecting goalie Carey Price with the fifth pick at yesterday's entry draft has subsided considerably since then.

When the Canadiens announced their selection at the microphone, there were murmurs in the room. Murmurs of astonishment, even of incredulity. How could the Canadiens claim a goalie when there were still good skaters available, such Gilbert Brulé, Jack Skille, and Anze Kopitar? Why did Bob Gainey give his consent when the team has Théodore, one of the best goalies of his generation?

"We're looking ahead and Carey Price was the best player available at the moment of our selection. He happens to be a goalie", answered an inscrutable Bob Gainey.

The Canadiens would have liked to draft Sidney Crosby, Bobby Ryan, Jack Johnson or Benoit Pouliot. But these players were not available any more at the fifth pick.

"We chose the player who had the most positive elements", explained Player Personnel Manager Trevor Timmins.

Timmins was not the only one to appreciate the qualities of Price, a young 17 year old goalie for Tri-City in the WHL.

"I'm not surprised that he was picked so early", declared Mighty Ducks GM Brian Burke. "Price is a complete package."

Another observer, this time an NHL scout.

"He's the best junior goalie that I've seen in 10 years", he stated without batting an eye.

Better than Roberto Luongo?

Price has, it appears, the ideal temperament to tend goal in Montréal. Nothing seems to bother him. He quickly forgets a bad goal or a poor performance. He also relies on an excellent technique, practicing a hybrid style of butterfly and stand-up. And at six feet three inches and 205 pounds, he fills the net.

"But there's more", adds Timmins. "He's already as good as Martin Brodeur in handling the puck. And his shot is not a dribbler", he concludes, thinking of the assists that Price will be able to achieve without the red line.

Last season, Price had a GAA of 2.34, maintained a save percentage of.921, and registered 8 shutouts. He also represented Canada at the U18 world championship. This year he could be the starting goalie for Canada in the WJC, which will be held in Vancouver.

In the normal course of events, Price will play for Tri-City for two more seasons. He should then progress to the AHL for another season. But the young man has talent and he could jump ahead.

We will have a better idea of his path after training camp.
 

Vlad The Impaler

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turnbuckle said:
Actually, Fleury was not any better than Price at the same age; he was overhyped because of the QMJHL goaltending machine. Fleury has never come close to Price's stats except for his sophomore season, and was nine months older when he was drafted. He has a long way to go before he's a top ten goalie, so does Price.

You seem a bit down on Fleury, no?

I think Fleury was drafted for all the promises he holds and I would definitly rate him as one of the better goaltending prospects I have seen.

I'm still a bit uneasy with him because I consider all goalies to be tricky projects and Fleury is the epitome of a goalie with upside. It's really his natural aptitudes that got him all the praises.

He struck me as having massive upside and still does. Showed flashes of brilliance in Pittsburgh. Price seems less of a roller-coaster prospect.
 
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