Confirmed with Link: Muzzin signs 4 years 5.625 AAV
- Thread starter ottomaddox
- Start date
Holl I could accept on the 3rd pair but I would like to see him upgraded on.
Rielly does need a partner but I would argue so does Muzzin.
Its a perfectly fair deal for a defenseman of his calibur. 4 years is the right term, some people act like dubas just handed out the shea webber contract
We're just in that spot where we have 3-4 guys who have potential but are not quite ready for big minutes. Maybe you have to look a moving one of them plus a forward for an upgrade
Holl is doing well in shutdown minutes, name me who else you think we can realistically get that is better than him at it?
His numbers are far stronger than virtually everybody else we've been connected to, he ***** on Risto, Dumba and Manson numbers wise
So what you have chosen to do is looked at his "advanced stats" and not actually watching him play.
I can tell you right now I would rather have Larsson, Dumba, Hamonic, Petroangelo among others over him.
Don't really want Risto, at least not as a partner for Rielly, although he might work on the 2nd pair with Muzzin.
Intend to cut guys slack if they put up bad numbers on bad teams because they are on bad teams so they are likely to put up bad numbers and he can at least score and the Leafs kind of need more of that from their D, offense from the back end is an issue
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So unbiased offensive and defensive statistics don't count but your eye does?
Why didn't your eye tell you that Dumba is **** defensively?
Larsson and Harmonic are overrated and Holl has been better than both
Is Pieto even available?
Holl **** on Risto defensively, it's not even close
Offence on the backend is an issue? Bull**** it is
We can't keep the puck out of our net, some of that is goaltending but to many of our defenseman are one dimensional offensive defenseman and Muzzin and Holl have to do to much defensively, now it's Holl and Dermott
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
I'm 33. I feel like this site looks at me as if I'm practically already in an old age home. I get the concern but Muzzin never relied on his foot speed to begin with. He'll be fine. Imagine this defense without him. He also comes off as a leader type. We need more vets like him. Speed kills over 82 games, not as much in the playoffs where anything goes and the refs put the whistles away. We saw that last year vs Boston. They could decapitate our players and wouldn't get 2 minutes.
Agreed...he probably gave away one year and/or more money. Id call him an idiot if he signed for less. He either gets more money or more term if he waits to be a UFA. When we first acquired him, i didnt expect him to have interest in staying. Glad he has chosen to.
Haha im 33 too... im beginning to take offense to some posts about ages and signings.... im 33 and i outwork and out hustle many of my younger collegues. Younger doesnt mean you cant be outworked, outmuscled and outsmarted. But... i cant comment on how injuries account for slowing down.
You can find a stat to support anything you want, numbers can be mannipulated but the eye is based on what is seen and therefore what actually happened.
The only true 1 way d man we have is Barrie and he is leaving in July, even Rielly isn't truly 1 way and even if he was he is hurt
So your eye is right and those unbiased facts are wrong?
Your eye evaluating all those players defensive impacts must be quality stuff
Rielly is a 50-75 point offensive defenseman
Sandin is an offensive defenseman
Muzzin is a 30-40 point defenseman
Holl is going to be in the 20-30 range
We are one of the highest scoring teams in the league, we give up well above average goals totals
This team does not lack offense from the back end, it lacks the ability to suppress shots and limit goals against
I'm not here to defend Dubas but he had little choice. We couldn't afford to not have him with the depth we have and Barrie gone almost for certain now.
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
You must believe magicians know actual magic, since they do something right in front of your eye it must have really happened!
No but I do trust my eyes when watching a hockey game.
The advanced stat community tried to say Kadri was a #1 center for years but that just wasn't true, I had many arguments about that with James Tanner, as well as Gardiner being a 1D and Reimer being a starte none of that was ever true.
The question you should be asking isnt whether we can get an upgrade on Justin holl as a #4 defenceman... it's whether you can get one for around the same $2m that he's going to make next year....
And the reality is, you probably can't. So Dermott can be used as bait, traded to make space, or stay in the context of a guy who will probably start next year still on the 3rd pair, and see top 4 time if / when somebody undoubtedly gets hurt.
At the end of the day, it'll be dictated by what the Leafs are able to get in terms of a #2/3 guy to play with rielly, how much he costs, etc.
I would suggest glasses or watching a random hockey game. Eye test can be very biased.
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
We're past our prime man. We best move on to our mid-life crisis. Wanna split on a Corvette?
Rielly4
Registered User
- Dec 12, 2012
- 3,632
- 614
Holl is a good mix of defense and puck moving ability, hes a two way defenseman...He isnt a defensive specialist. Hes a solid # 4-5 D.
Rielly-??
Muzzin-Dermott
Sandin-Holl
i think that would be the most ideal situation. Or if Lilj outplays Sandin you could do:
Rielly-?
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott-Lilj
Either way both Lilj and Sandin will get plenty of playing time with injuries.
Manson would be a great fit considering he has 2 years left on his deal and by that time our young guys will be ready for increased roles.
Only problem is expansion draft. Assuming we will protect Rielly, Dermott, Muzzin...But if we add a Manson we may have to expose him although he would only have 1 year left so he might not be that valuable to Seattle.
Rielly-??
Muzzin-Dermott
Sandin-Holl
i think that would be the most ideal situation. Or if Lilj outplays Sandin you could do:
Rielly-?
Muzzin-Holl
Dermott-Lilj
Either way both Lilj and Sandin will get plenty of playing time with injuries.
Manson would be a great fit considering he has 2 years left on his deal and by that time our young guys will be ready for increased roles.
Only problem is expansion draft. Assuming we will protect Rielly, Dermott, Muzzin...But if we add a Manson we may have to expose him although he would only have 1 year left so he might not be that valuable to Seattle.
Everyone knows that the personal testimony of casual observers are perfectly reliable, and recorded facts are BS.
Clark4Ever
What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Agreed, and it also makes the trade more valuable to us by increasing his service time to almost 6 years.
TheOtherSide
Registered User
I would like to preface this by saying that I am a fan of the Muzzin contract, as he is and for years, has been a really good player. However, the people who are concerned about age, are probably right to be.
Of the 296 defencemen that have played a game in the NHL this season, only 28 of them are 33 years of age or older and only 18 are 34 or older . Muzzin will turn 35 part way through the 4th year of this deal, and has a fairly significant injury history. Although he hasn't relied on his speed to be an effective player throughout his career, can he afford to lose another step or two? Maybe, maybe not.
I'm glad he will remain a Leaf, but I wouldn't be surprised if this ends with the Leafs looking to move him to a team looking to get to the cap floor.
Of the 296 defencemen that have played a game in the NHL this season, only 28 of them are 33 years of age or older and only 18 are 34 or older . Muzzin will turn 35 part way through the 4th year of this deal, and has a fairly significant injury history. Although he hasn't relied on his speed to be an effective player throughout his career, can he afford to lose another step or two? Maybe, maybe not.
I'm glad he will remain a Leaf, but I wouldn't be surprised if this ends with the Leafs looking to move him to a team looking to get to the cap floor.
Wafflewhipper
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2014
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I just noticed Muzzy has 83 games played for us now or a full season and has put up 11g 28 assists. So a 40 point solid complete devenseman. I think this contract is a steal
Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
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Not really the eye simply passes information on to the brain, the brain then interprets that information through what ever bias or filter you choose (intentionally or unintentionally ) to use. How can two scouts use the eye test on one prospect and come to different conclusions. If the eye sees what actually happened, then everyone should be in agreement on everything.
Bluelines
Python FTW!
- Nov 17, 2013
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Agreed, it is a steal but in a few years, age will catch up with him and we will have to bury him on the 3rd pairing. I love the signing.
That story I heard about him walking into a quiet Leaf locker room and tearing the paint off the walls with some spicy language because the Leafs played like S#!t, going after a few of the forward stars for playing half ass3d in their own zone, made me a bigger fan, this guy might not have a letter but he is a leader and the stars on this team respect him.
