Dreger: Muzzin and the Leafs getting close to an extension

[LeafsNation75]

 

[TorontoTrades]

4 years is good term for both sides. Any longer and I'd start to be a bit concerned.

Hopefully the number is 5.5 or less.

 

[periferal]

Smart by the leafs. Keeping Muzzin over Barrie is the right move.

Yeah, but they need to replace Barrie, add another D-man, and sign a few others and, provided not trades, will have about 5M in cap space to do so.

 

[Cotton]

He didn't have a choice. If they went longer Matthew's cap hit jumped. They couldn't have afforded Nylander if they gave Matthews 8 years.

I know, but the implication was Matthews wanted to get walked to free-agency when he infact came to the table seeking an 8 year term.

As per the Leafs intermission, word is they're close on a Muzzin extention with it looking like a 4 year term.

 

[SI90]

Yeah, but they need to replace Barrie, add another D-man, and sign a few others and, provided not trades, will have about 5M in cap space to do so.

that’s the position they’ve put themselves in. I guess it could be worse not having the players that are worth big bucks. Still have to allocate the budget and cap properly.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

He'll be 34 for the majority of the last season of a four year deal. If the number is less than 5.5 it should be fine.

 

[DanM]

Yeah, but they need to replace Barrie, add another D-man, and sign a few others and, provided not trades, will have about 5M in cap space to do so.

We will have

Reilly
Muzzin
Sandin
Lily
Holl
Dermott

And we have other prospects. I don't see us being in a horrible position.

 

[periferal]

delete

 

[Man Bear Pig]

that’s the position they’ve put themselves in. I guess it could be worse not having the players that are worth big bucks. Still have to allocate the budget and cap properly.

Barrie was always going to be a 1 year rental here. It was worth the risk IMO to get a year from an elite offensive dman, but there was never any realistic scenario where Barrie would sign an extension. He was always going to want too much money. Dubas put himself into the situation by design.

 

[Liferleafer]

We will have

Reilly
Muzzin
Sandin
Lily
Holl
Dermott

And we have other prospects. I don't see us being in a horrible position.

Only issue i see there is who plays top pair RHD?

 

[SI90]

Barrie was always going to be a 1 year rental here. It was worth the risk IMO to get a year from an elite offensive dman, but there was never any realistic scenario where Barrie would sign an extension. He was always going to want too much money. Dubas put himself into the situation by design.

I agree but isn’t that bad asset management? Kadri is really valuable and on a great deal. I’m not a leafs fan but I think in hindsight they’d like to keep Kadri or trade him for a younger cost controlled defenseman.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I agree but isn’t that bad asset management? Kadri is really valuable and on a great deal. I’m not a leafs fan but I think in hindsight they’d like to keep Kadri or trade him for a younger cost controlled defenseman.

Oh I'd definitely prefer a younger cost-controlled dman for Kadri vs Kerfoot and Barrie. It sounded like that was never an option though when Kadri was shopped. They, leafs management, decided he had to go and the best offer was from the Flames for Brodie and a forward but Kadri wouldn't go there for whatever reason. I dont think teams were lining up to deal Dubas a young top 4 for him.

 

[SI90]

Oh I'd definitely prefer a younger cost-controlled dman for Kadri vs Kerfoot and Barrie. It sounded like that was never an option though when Kadri was shopped. They, leafs management, decided he had to go and the best offer was from the Flames for Brodie and a forward but Kadri wouldn't go there for whatever reason. I dont think teams were lining up to deal Dubas a young top 4 for him.

Kadri had a NMC/NTC?

 

[dangomon]

I agree but isn’t that bad asset management? Kadri is really valuable and on a great deal. I’m not a leafs fan but I think in hindsight they’d like to keep Kadri or trade him for a younger cost controlled defenseman.

Depends how you look at it. They traded a cost-controlled 2C (who wasn't getting enough opportunity to optimize his production) for an extremely cap-friendly Top-4 RHD, plus a Top-9 C/W. For a team trying to win, that trade makes sense. In terms of cap management. Kadri at his $$ is a great deal, but a 3C at Kadri's $$ is average or bordering on too high for a team with Toronto's cap structure.

I'd ask you this. Which cost-controlled young D could that have got for Kadri that would be a significant upgrade over what they have? Those d-men are hard and expensive to acquire.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

I agree but isn’t that bad asset management? Kadri is really valuable and on a great deal. I’m not a leafs fan but I think in hindsight they’d like to keep Kadri or trade him for a younger cost controlled defenseman.

Young cost controlled defenceman don't come cheap. The best we could've gotten for Kadri might've been something like Montour, maybe Severson. Nothing like Pesce or Andersson. One guy who I wish Dubas would've made a push to get was Savard, he's signed for one more year than Barrie, and fits our needs much more. Maybe Columbus didn't want Kadri, but that would've been a better trade IMO

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Kadri had a NMC/NTC?

Partial NTC. List of 10 teams he could veto a trade to. Calgary was one.

 

[SI90]

Depends how you look at it. They traded a cost-controlled 2C (who wasn't getting enough opportunity to optimize his production) for an extremely cap-friendly Top-4 RHD, plus a Top-9 C/W. For a team trying to win, that trade makes sense. In terms of cap management. Kadri at his $$ is a great deal, but a 3C at Kadri's $$ is average or bordering on too high for a team with Toronto's cap structure.

I'd ask you this. Which cost-controlled young D could that have got for Kadri that would be a significant upgrade over what they have? Those d-men are hard and expensive to acquire.

I’m just saying asset management in the long run. Barrie most likely won’t be in TOR next year and Kerfoot is a good middle 6 forward but I don’t think 1 year of Barrie + Kerfoot is worth Kadri.

I’m not saying TOR should have or could have kept Kadri but I feel they could have possibly done better with their return. I don’t know who or what was available the time but Kadri even coming off of a less productive year is still worth a young 2nd pairing defenseman 1 vs 1 imo.

 

[snowkiddin]

I know, but the implication was Matthews wanted to get walked to free-agency when he infact came to the table seeking an 8 year term.

As per the Leafs intermission, word is they're close on a Muzzin extention with it looking like a 4 year term.

That highlights another one of Dubas’s mistakes. He bit and offered Tavares too much money when he really didn’t need him. They weren’t able to sign Matthews long term and are in danger of losing him in five seasons.

 

[SI90]

Young cost controlled defenceman don't come cheap. The best we could've gotten for Kadri might've been something like Montour, maybe Severson. Nothing like Pesce or Andersson. One guy who I wish Dubas would've made a push to get was Savard, he's signed for one more year than Barrie, and fits our needs much more. Maybe Columbus didn't want Kadri, but that would've been a better trade IMO

Severson would have been a good fit. Don’t know if he was available but that would have made sense.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

That highlights another one of Dubas’s mistakes. He bit and offered Tavares too much money when he really didn’t need him. They weren’t able to sign Matthews long term and are in danger of losing him in five seasons.

5 seasons is a long time. NHL is gonna be completely different five years from now.

 

[SI90]

Partial NTC. List of 10 teams he could veto a trade to. Calgary was one.

Didn’t know that. Thank you.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Didn’t know that. Thank you.

No problem.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Partial NTC. List of 10 teams he could veto a trade to. Calgary was one.

Even if Dubas didn't trade for Barrie I think keeping Kadri would have been awkward since he tried to trade him to Calgary.

I agree but isn’t that bad asset management? Kadri is really valuable and on a great deal. I’m not a leafs fan but I think in hindsight they’d like to keep Kadri or trade him for a younger cost controlled defenseman.

I know Dubas never admitted this but I think part of the reason Kadri got traded was those back to back suspensions in the 2018 and 2019 playoffs. So if Toronto makes them again he doesn't want to risk seeing that happen a third straight time.

 

[SI90]

Sbisa Koivula and?

 

[Cotton]

That highlights another one of Dubas’s mistakes. He bit and offered Tavares too much money when he really didn’t need him. They weren’t able to sign Matthews long term and are in danger of losing him in five seasons.

Well no, they arent in danger of losing him - this isn't Winnipeg. And yes, they were able to sign him long term but chose not to in order to sign several other players.

But yes, Dubas has certainly made mistakes.