Murphy vs Hamilton

[msv957]

The first point you make about a player either having it or not, in terms of being tough and playing physical....... I somewhat agree...... I think there are aggressive personality types and personality types that prefer to shy away from contact... But, when you are talking about kids of this age bracket, they start growing into their frames, they get stronger and larger, and thus more comfortable with the physical side of the game....

A kid like Hamilton is just starting to fill out... I believe he is 2 or 3 inches taller than he was 18 months ago..... So as he gets more comfortable in his body, and adds weight to that 6'4 frame, I think the physicality will come with the increased comfortability and confidence in his size... As he realizes the size advantage he has (especially when he adds weight), and with proper coaching, he with use his size to his advantage more.


As far as Hamilton's stats not screaming of an offensive player...... The kid has over 50 points... Was only 9 points shy of a PPG average, all the while being one of the better defensive defensemen in the league.... I think his stats show he could be a very good offensive contributor...... The days of Paul Coffey, Bourque, Potvin and defensemen in general scoring 90, 100 points are long gone... Not many forwards get that many points anymore..... If you have a defenseman that scores between 40-50 points now, that is a damn good offensive D-man.

Good post and I do agree somewhat. However, guys like Phaneuf, Jovanovski, Scott Stevens just came in the league and were tough. It was in their DNA. This does not seem like Hamilton. This growing into his body and etc is iffy at best.. I don't think Scott Stevens cared about growing into his body. He was tough from the beginning.

Perhaps, Hamilton develops into a Marc Staal type of NHL defenseman? Same size at 6'4", with decent toughness and offense potential of around 30-35 points per season?

I am interested to see what Marc Staal's juniors stats were and compare to Hamilton

 

[McDoused]

I am starting to feel the same way... I love the big 3 forwards along with Strome and Hubedeau, but this team is so much more loaded at forward and badly needs help on defense... I just posted something along those lines in the Isles Draft discussion..

Hamilton for me. As good as murphy is at controlling the puck and as good as he is offensively I can't pass on Hamilton. The kid plays un upwards of 40 minutes a night where Murphy is a niche player.

I like Murphy and think he could be the next Visnovsky but Hamilton has all the tools.

 

[Confound]

I'd take Hamilton, guy is solid all around.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Hamilton for me. As good as murphy is at controlling the puck and as good as he is offensively I can't pass on Hamilton. The kid plays un upwards of 40 minutes a night where Murphy is a niche player.

I like Murphy and think he could be the next Visnovsky but Hamilton has all the tools.

Murphy is not a niche player. He drives the enitre Kitchener game. What besides size does Hamilton have that Murphy doesn't?

People need to watch Murphy to know what he is.

 

[Ward Cornell]

People need to watch Murphy to know what he is.

I sincerely believe ppl make judgments on players just by reading other ppl opinions on them without actually seeing them for themselves.
I've seen Hamilton play about 5 times but still don't make judgement on him....oh well.
While I would feel very comfortable in drafting Murphy in any spot in the top 10.
Murphy isn't a "niche" player or any sort of gamble.

 

[mm11]

Good post and I do agree somewhat. However, guys like Phaneuf, Jovanovski, Scott Stevens just came in the league and were tough. It was in their DNA. This does not seem like Hamilton. This growing into his body and etc is iffy at best.. I don't think Scott Stevens cared about growing into his body. He was tough from the beginning.

Perhaps, Hamilton develops into a Marc Staal type of NHL defenseman? Same size at 6'4", with decent toughness and offense potential of around 30-35 points per season?

I am interested to see what Marc Staal's juniors stats were and compare to Hamilton

I happened to agree with this, Im pretty sure Rich Pilon for example never cared about growing into his body. Personally I have played enough puck in my day and when someone is tough they are tough already. I have never encountered someone evolving. However I could be wrong and there probably are spot cases but in general you have it or you dont.

 

[islandermaniac]

I happened to agree with this, Im pretty sure Rich Pilon for example never cared about growing into his body. Personally I have played enough puck in my day and when someone is tough they are tough already. I have never encountered someone evolving. However I could be wrong and there probably are spot cases but in general you have it or you dont.

people do that around here all the time. for one reason or another, posters fall in love with a prospect and then make up a series of excuses for "their" player. the "growing into his body" excuse is what people will say for dougie hamilton's lack of physical play. the fact is, hamilton is not going to be the physical guy that one might expect given his size. i don't think he ever will be. that is not a knock on the lad, just a fact. anyone expecting this kid to all of sudden start pulverizing oncoming forwards on a regular basis (like a stevens or even a rich pilon) is going to be sorely disappointed. that's just not what he does. so, don't count me as a believer in the "he'll get more physical once he gets comfortable with his body" club.

 

[mm11]

people do that around here all the time. for one reason or another, posters fall in love with a prospect and then make up a series of excuses for "their" player. the "growing into his body" excuse is what people will say for dougie hamilton's lack of physical play. the fact is, hamilton is not going to be the physical guy that one might expect given his size. i don't think he ever will be. that is not a knock on the lad, just a fact. anyone expecting this kid to all of sudden start pulverizing oncoming forwards on a regular basis (like a stevens or even a rich pilon) is going to be sorely disappointed. that's just not what he does. so, don't count me as a believer in the "he'll get more physical once he gets comfortable with his body" club.

very true indeed, anyway, we go back to the original question then, since your obviously a NYI fan like myself. who are you leaning towards? Possible Eric Brewer or a possible Bryan Leetch? no question I'll go with Leetch. Now this is just my humble opinion of these two fine prospects pinnacle potential and they will probably fall way short but it may be time the NYI gamble with the pick and take Murphy...

 

[islandermaniac]

very true indeed, anyway, we go back to the original question then, since your obviously a NYI fan like myself. who are you leaning towards? Possible Eric Brewer or a possible Bryan Leetch? no question I'll go with Leetch. Now this is just my humble opinion of these two fine prospects pinnacle potential and they will probably fall way short but it may be time the NYI gamble with the pick and take Murphy...

while i don't claim to have watched these players as much as an nhl scout, i think murphy is the guy i go with. i would take the guy who i believe is the better player, not just go with the guy who is bigger. i don't know that too many people would say that hamilton is the better and more skilled player. what they would say is that his frame MIGHT allow him to be the better in the nhl. others will disagree, but i would take the better PLAYER and let the chips fall where they may. i think that better player is murphy.

 

[Isles Drive 4 5]

I read the knock on Hamilton is he is not overly physical for a 6'4 defenseman. I think you can't teach toughness and physicallity. Either you have it or you don't.

Just looking at stats, Hamilton's stats do not scream offensive defenseman in the NHL either.

So, it is hard to gauge what Hamilton can become. A 6'4 defenseman, who is a good skater, adequate toughness and adequate offense. Does this sound like a top 5-10 pick of an NHL draft? Perhaps... However, He does sound close to being a sure bet NHL player.

Murphy seems to have offensive skills that are very rare but his size will always be a question in the NHL

This is a real tough choice. I would think the interviews and etc at the NHL combine will help clarify things more.

Very interesting and good point about the Knock on Hamilton. I think most people have the perception that this kid will be able to knock guys through the boards and score 40pts. I don't see him as that. look at Ty Wishart..can turn into an easy comparison. Thats just my gut feeling ...like everyone else I don't have a crystal ball.

Also like to make a hypothetical comparison...if we to read T. Engstom scouting report and D. Byfuglin's Scouting report everyone would say pick the the bigger guy in Byfuglin just as they are with Hamilton. Now you fast forward to both their NHL careers and you see that the Talent of Engstom as he racks in 50 pts as does Byfuglin but ..there's is absolutely no debating, questioning that Engstrom is a 10x better defensemen than Byfuglin..Engstroms with his speed and talent is constantly covering up Byfuglin's mistakes defensively. I see the same exact player in Murphy and maybe a little bit better offensively. The biggest misconception about Murphy is that he'a smurf and can't play defense....the kid's 5'10 170ibs at 17yrs old ..he will grow..maybe not into a giant...the kid is a plus 15 the last time I checked.. he can play defense but he also brings the strong potential..more so than any other d-man prospect of being an absolute incredible player..a guy that people we come to see...hamilton does not have that...period....NO question you take Murphy and laugh at all that passed on him.

 

[bluechipbonzo]

It's silly to punish Hamilton for his size, while ignoring the not small, but average sized Murphy.

It's clearly a benefit to have a defenseman as big as Hamilton is, and that still has an extremely high skill-set. What's more, it's almost as though the rest of everything Hamilton brings- the powerful skating, the offensive and defensive zone awareness, the high character...all this is being thrown out the window because he's not a head-hunter out there.

In the new NHL, the trend is to go with mobile, fleet of foot, quick thinking defensemen. This sounds like Murphy, but it also represents exactly what Hamilton can bring- plus the size. That's the first place Murphy loses.

Murphy's flashiness will not be as apparent in the NHL where the defensive systems include stronger back pressure with forwards that can wipe you out with the big hit. Murphy's game benefits from poor defensive decision making and general lack of discipline in major junior hockey.

The NHL is a different animal altogether, and Hamilton's defensive abilities tilt things in his favour.

The Islanders already have smaller puck movers like Andrew MacDonald and Calvin de Haan on the way. Mark Streit has several great seasons ahead, and Travis Hamonic brings offensive punch as well. None of these players brings the size Hamilton does, however, and behind Larsson represents the best all-around defensive prospect in the 2011 draft.

While Murphy could develop into a Mike Green clone, he'll never be known as a defensive stalwart, nor should he be confused with having the potential to be a number one defenseman in the NHL. That potential belongs to Larsson alone, with Hamilton a very close, and a much safer bet to be a top-pairing defenseman than the riverboat gambling Murphy.

 

[JMac13]

I'm a student in Niagara and see a lot of ice dog games. I'm probably not going to be well liked around here by saying this but Hamilton reminds me too much of a Jay Bouwmeester or a Braydon Cobourn. Big bodies that skate well but a) don't have elite offensive skill and b) aren't that physical for their size.

Every time I've seen Murphy the guy has amazed me. He is so much more solid in his own end than he's given credit more and he has gamebreaking ability. He is going to be a star imo.

Now don't get me wrong Hamilton is going to be a good player but I think 5 years from now if a team were to pick Hamilton over Murphy they are going to regret making the "safe" pick.

 

[Seph]

very true indeed, anyway, we go back to the original question then, since your obviously a NYI fan like myself. who are you leaning towards? Possible Eric Brewer or a possible Bryan Leetch? no question I'll go with Leetch. Now this is just my humble opinion of these two fine prospects pinnacle potential and they will probably fall way short but it may be time the NYI gamble with the pick and take Murphy...

Well, yeah, if you look at one guy's absolute best case scenario and compare it to not much better than the worst case scenario for the other guy, of course the first is going to ne preferable.

 

[Jayevs]

Murphy will be a good offensive dman who can run a good pp, and can be first pairing with a deffensive dman, like a better liles potentially, where as i see the potential and skillset for hamilton to be a #1