MTS Center Arena Capacity

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vivianmb

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Jan 10, 2007
2,891
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winnipeg
www.whocares.ca
the boys that own the winnipeg franchise are worth more than any other owners. and the reason for that...they are smart. this will work. as much as a lot of people around N america dont want it to.
 

JackBurton

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
464
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the boys that own the winnipeg franchise are worth more than any other owners. and the reason for that...they are smart. this will work. as much as a lot of people around N america dont want it to.

When you think about it, David Thompson is one of the few people in Canada that could buy MLSE outright, and yet he wants to invest his money in Winnipeg. That tells me that he thinks he has a damn good shot at making money there, and he's not often wrong.
 

Cooperalls

Oiler Fan!!!
Oct 5, 2010
545
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Is it true they are considering adding a third bowl with about 2,500 seats?

I'm sure alot of expansion ideas have been discussed, but nothing is in the works at the moment. Right now, they'll sell season tickets based on the current layout. I doubt we'll see any changes (or plans to change) to the MTS Centre anytime soon.
 

CarlWinslow

@hiphopsicles
Jan 25, 2010
7,734
140
Winnipeg
I'm sure alot of expansion ideas have been discussed, but nothing is in the works at the moment. Right now, they'll sell season tickets based on the current layout. I doubt we'll see any changes (or plans to change) to the MTS Centre anytime soon.

Its boxed into a very tight spaced. The only way to expand is straight up and I don't see it happening. I think the new owners are confident they can do well as is.
 

JackBurton

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Jun 30, 2010
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I suspect there may be a long-term vision in the works to play in the MTS Centre as is for the arena's lifespan (probably another 10-15 years), while the decade(s) long process of putting together a new arena deal is done quietly in the background (as everything TNSE has done so far has been).
 

PitbulI

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
415
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I believe that part of what TNSE was wanting to work out as it pertains to the MTS center and the provincial government might be that they feel that they can take baby steps at increasing capacity for the MTS Centre. I don't think they'll do it on the East side but the the West and South ends could potentially add a few more thousand seats. I say 2000-3000 at most but that wouldn't be bad.
 

GuelphMadHatter

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Mar 16, 2010
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Guelph, ON, Canada
I'm sure alot of expansion ideas have been discussed, but nothing is in the works at the moment. Right now, they'll sell season tickets based on the current layout. I doubt we'll see any changes (or plans to change) to the MTS Centre anytime soon.
Yeah, probably they'll wait a few years to determine the worth of such expansion. If the demand remains high for tickets in 3 or 4 years, it might be worth considering. I can't wait to hear what the MTS Centre sounds like on opening night. The intimacy of it should make it an insanely loud building!
 

giggleberriez

Registered User
Mar 9, 2011
2
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Winnipeg
Yes the MTS centre has the ability to add 1500 seats all in the upper bowl but the construction cost would outway the $60-70K revenue a year it would only bring in. Better option is too build another press box type area are on the west side that can be 12-13 more luxury boxes that would sell at $200-300K a year.
 

Puckschmuck*

Guest
My gut feeling is that when it comes time for a new arena (in 30-40 years) they will buy Portage Place and turn that site into a new arena, so as not to compromise the SHED district. They have the money and the will. This is a win win situation for Winnipeg, our fanbase and TNSE. I nothing but success for this franchise's future.
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,061
33,043
Here we go again... :shakehead

They announced an average ticket price of $82, which would be third highest in Canada (after Montreal and Toronto), and a few-fold higher than some US teams.

The average ticket revenue per game (with an attendance of 15,000) would be over $1.2 million, which would certainly be in the top half of the NHL. Adding another 2,500 seats at $30 per ticket would increase the per game revenue by only about $75,000, or 6%.

We will soon find out if Winnipeg is willing to pay these prices for the next 4-5 years at least.

Also, remember that TNSE has perhaps the most ideal arena situation in the league, since they own and operate the arena and also benefit with several other properties in the vicinity.

Suffice to say, if Winnipeg is not able to make it with the business plan they are laying out, there is little hope for many other NHL franchises.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
the boys that own the winnipeg franchise are worth more than any other owners. and the reason for that...they are smart. this will work. as much as a lot of people around N america dont want it to.
1. Phil Anschutz is worth about as much, if not a little more, than David Thomson in his own right. Mark Chipman is not competitive financially with other NHL owners in his own right.

2. "the reason for that...they are smart." Honestly, are you kidding? David Thomson and Mark Chipman are rich because "they are smart"? They may (or may not) be quite intelligent, but that has zip to do with why they are rich.

Evidently this has not yet sunk in for some people around N America.
 

MVP of West Hollywd

Registered User
Oct 28, 2008
3,489
950
I don't think it's too small. It's all about supply (seats) and demand (customers). The ideal arena is where they meet. Phx's arena is oversupplying the market so it's not a benefit to have more seats for them, it hurts them. IMO empty seats are far worse than not having enough tickets to sell.

If the NHL could run like other markets, empty seats would mean the supply gets downgraded until it meets the demand, so the arena gets smaller. If teams like Phoenix had a magic supply and demand genie to change their seating, they would be in a 8-9k seat arena right now. 8k would make it harder to just get in, which would increase demand for "just a seat" and the price, which would increase their revenue. Believe it or not the Coyotes would be more profitable ticket sales wise in a 8k arena until the playoffs where they'd be underselling the market again, but could still jack up the prices way higher than now

Getting a bigger arena only matters in a market like Tor or Mon, where if they played in a 17k arena they'd be undersupplying the market. In a lesser market IMO it's a benefit to have a smaller arena. You want an arena exactly as big as you're going to sell.
 
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Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
21,890
6,905
Toronto
1. Phil Anschutz is worth about as much, if not a little more, than David Thomson in his own right. Mark Chipman is not competitive financially with other NHL owners in his own right.

2. "the reason for that...they are smart." Honestly, are you kidding? David Thomson and Mark Chipman are rich because "they are smart"? They may (or may not) be quite intelligent, but that has zip to do with why they are rich.

Evidently this has not yet sunk in for some people around N America.

Many if not most lottery winners end up broke after a couple of years. It takes intelligence to keep your money, regardless how you got it.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Here we go again... :shakehead

They announced an average ticket price of $82, which would be third highest in Canada (after Montreal and Toronto), and a few-fold higher than some US teams.

The average ticket revenue per game (with an attendance of 15,000) would be over $1.2 million, which would certainly be in the top half of the NHL. Adding another 2,500 seats at $30 per ticket would increase the per game revenue by only about $75,000, or 6%.

We will soon find out if Winnipeg is willing to pay these prices for the next 4-5 years at least.

Also, remember that TNSE has perhaps the most ideal arena situation in the league, since they own and operate the arena and also benefit with several other properties in the vicinity.

Suffice to say, if Winnipeg is not able to make it with the business plan they are laying out, there is little hope for many other NHL franchises.
1. I heard them repeat the $82 average ticket number as well, but that strikes me as a little odd when you consider that you get an $82 average if you assume that there are the same numbers of tickets available in each price range (129 + 114 + 94 + 79 + 64 + 54 + 39 = 573/7 = $81.86). Looking at the ticket map, it seems patently obvious that the areas are not of equal size. i suppose it is possible that the math just happened to work out that the overall average of disparately sized sections happened to equal the overall average of the price tiers.

2. Even assuming the average ticket price of $82, you cannot multiply that number by 15,015. The fact is that 936 tickets are in the suites, and those tickets are included in the suite prices.

The correct math would be 14,079 x 82 = $1,154,478. An earlier calc than yours put the number at > $1.3M, so I thought I would show the math and let everyone know what we are talking about as a max before we started pumping up the volume.

That number is assuming that there are ZERO comps (which is not achievable under either the NHL constitution or the real world) and assuming that Mr. Chipman's earlier statements about losing some seating to accommodate camera angles is incorrect. Since there will be some comps, and since they will apparently lose some seating for cameras, adjust downward accordingly.

3. As per Mr. Chipman's previous statements, there is no possibility of expanding for additional seats.

4. Having now see the proposed pricing, can we dispense with the meme that the seats that TNSE are giving up are the "cheapest seats"? Their cheap seats are comparable to CAL and EDM. The reality is that the "missing seats", as it were, are more likely spread throughout the price categories.
 

Cullksinikers

Registered User
Aug 20, 2009
15,292
93
'Merica
Smaller arenas that are loud can be very intimidating. If they sell out and have rowdy fans, it'll be a tough barn to play in. Plus, they could always add standing room areas. Their ticket prices are the third highest of the seven NHL franchises in Canada. So, they will still get a lot of revenue and their team will have an advantage at home.
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Many if not most lottery winners end up broke after a couple of years. It takes intelligence to keep your money, regardless how you got it.
Not really. Maybe so if you are a complete neophyte who won a few mil in the lottery (anyone can run through a few mil), but if your dad sets you up with a couple of hundred mil or (in Mr. Thomson's case) a third of a $20 Billion empire run by top notch professional management, you can't really mess that up.

Long story short, both of those guys got rich via the sweat of their parents (and previous generations, in Thomson's case), not because they are or were "smart". Like it or don't like it, but the facts speak for themselves.
 

Boltz9

Registered User
Jul 3, 2009
283
0
Brandon, Manitoba
1. Phil Anschutz is worth about as much, if not a little more, than David Thomson in his own right.

Check your facts:

Anschutz - Forbes ranks him the 34th richest person in the U.S. with an estimated net worth of $7 billion.

David Thomson - Forbes ranks him the 17th richest person in the world with an estimated net worth of $23 billion.
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,061
33,043
1. I heard them repeat the $82 average ticket number as well, but that strikes me as a little odd when you consider that you get an $82 average if you assume that there are the same numbers of tickets available in each price range (129 + 114 + 94 + 79 + 64 + 54 + 39 = 573/7 = $81.86). Looking at the ticket map, it seems patently obvious that the areas are not of equal size. i suppose it is possible that the math just happened to work out that the overall average of disparately sized sections happened to equal the overall average of the price tiers.

2. Even assuming the average ticket price of $82, you cannot multiply that number by 15,015. The fact is that 936 tickets are in the suites, and those tickets are included in the suite prices.

The correct math would be 14,079 x 82 = $1,154,478. An earlier calc than yours put the number at > $1.3M, so I thought I would show the math and let everyone know what we are talking about as a max before we started pumping up the volume.

That number is assuming that there are ZERO comps (which is not achievable under either the NHL constitution or the real world) and assuming that Mr. Chipman's earlier statements about losing some seating to accommodate camera angles is incorrect. Since there will be some comps, and since they will apparently lose some seating for cameras, adjust downward accordingly.

3. As per Mr. Chipman's previous statements, there is no possibility of expanding for additional seats.

4. Having now see the proposed pricing, can we dispense with the meme that the seats that TNSE are giving up are the "cheapest seats"? Their cheap seats are comparable to CAL and EDM. The reality is that the "missing seats", as it were, are more likely spread throughout the price categories.

Either way, I expect that you will agree that the ticket revenue based on the projected arena capacity and the now publicly confirmed ticket prices would be more than enough to place Winnipeg in the upper half of ticket revenue in the NHL. If you would like to argue that the MTS Centre is too small, then you must also be prepared to argue that tickets in many other markets are too cheap.

Did you manage to see the news conference today with Chipman and Thomson and the principals in this deal from the Manitoba side? If so, then I am quite sure that their professional approach, demeanor and commitment was on full display, as was the respect that they were accorded by Bettman. Are you really intent on questioning them as a bona fide ownership group after defending first Ice Edge Holdings and then Matthew Hulsizer? Does it really gall you so much that Winnipeg evidently has such a good ownership group? Seriously, someone needs to gently remove that thorn from your paw... :)
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,061
33,043
Not really. Maybe so if you are a complete neophyte who won a few mil in the lottery (anyone can run through a few mil), but if your dad sets you up with a couple of hundred mil or (in Mr. Thomson's case) a third of a $20 Billion empire run by top notch professional management, you can't really mess that up.

Long story short, both of those guys got rich via the sweat of their parents (and previous generations, in Thomson's case), not because they are or were "smart". Like it or don't like it, but the facts speak for themselves.

Check your facts:

Anschutz - Forbes ranks him the 34th richest person in the U.S. with an estimated net worth of $7 billion.

David Thomson - Forbes ranks him the 17th richest person in the world with an estimated net worth of $23 billion.

GSC... and Anschutz was a "pauper to riches" story?
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,061
33,043
1. Phil Anschutz is worth about as much, if not a little more, than David Thomson in his own right. Mark Chipman is not competitive financially with other NHL owners in his own right.

2. "the reason for that...they are smart." Honestly, are you kidding? David Thomson and Mark Chipman are rich because "they are smart"? They may (or may not) be quite intelligent, but that has zip to do with why they are rich.

Evidently this has not yet sunk in for some people around N America.

Well, how about this? They have very successfully managed a sports and entertainment complex (MTS Centre) and a professional hockey team in the market wherein their new NHL franchise will be situated. Might that be relevant experience for their upcoming venture?

Or would you prefer a hedge fund manager from a distant city, or perhaps a group of buddies with stock market experience.

GSC, have you really decided to stop pretending that you have lost an objective perspective about the re-entry of Winnipeg to the NHL?
 

Shawa666

Registered User
May 25, 2010
1,602
3
Québec, Qc, Ca
Not really. Maybe so if you are a complete neophyte who won a few mil in the lottery (anyone can run through a few mil), but if your dad sets you up with a couple of hundred mil or (in Mr. Thomson's case) a third of a $20 Billion empire run by top notch professional management, you can't really mess that up.

Long story short, both of those guys got rich via the sweat of their parents (and previous generations, in Thomson's case), not because they are or were "smart". Like it or don't like it, but the facts speak for themselves.

See: Bronfman, Edgar Jr, Seagram, Universal.
 

LetsGoIslanders

Registered User
Mar 6, 2005
2,481
154
NYC
My problem with Winnipeg is what happens when the CAD drops to .75 or .80 against the USD. They will be paying USD$1.25 or $1.20 in player salaries on attendance and sponsorships that are paid with a weak Canadian dollar. Sure, right now, around parity the finances look okay with a 15k full building, not great. Back in the days of the Jets, most players who signed with Canadian teams were signed in Canadian Dollars, now all salaries are paid in US dollars. That's also not mentioning that Winnipeg isn't exactly the most affluent of Canadian cities. When the Canadian Dollar is struggling, smaller cities like Winnipeg get hit the hardest.
 
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