MTS Center Arena Capacity

[puckhead103*]

according to some critics, the MTS center is too small for NHL hockey.....

at 15k plus, its very small compared other arenas having capacity over 16k....

the new capacity requirement for a NHL styled arena is now 17.5k

however, the supporters of bringing hockey back to winnipeg suggest MTS center is not small...

these supporters back up their data by using NHL's attendance problems....

some US arenas are not filling up the capacity...

places like new jersey and st.louis have crowds of 12,000 or less......

these supporters dispute the critics opinion that MTS center is too small.....if you have certain markets having 12,000 or less fans in the stands, why on the other hand say MTS center is small but in other words MTS center is somewhat larger compared to less attended arenas....

from my view, i believe MTS center is too small for NHL hockey....the revenue generated will only reach a break even level....the revenue factor is greater if MTS center was designed 17K or larger....

i know this topic has been discussed before....for those who get sick and tired of this topic....don't reply....

Click to read more...

 

[MacDaddy TLC*]

Winnipeg couldn't put 15000 into a building at anytime during the Jets existence on a consistent basis.

The MTS is NOT up to NHL standards!

The myth of Winnipeg being a great hockey city has been overblown. A Winnipeger here posted that the only way people took in Jets games is if the Manitoban's favourite word was attached to the tickets: Free.

It is time to put Winnipeg to bed. There are at least 6 more deserving cities, some with NHL quality arenas.

 

[saskganesh]

capacity doesn't matter. ticket ($) revenue plus suite sales ($) do. seating is just a rough indicator of what gate could be.

at its best, its probably a break even economic proposition, which isn't good enough to attract serious investors.

 

[GKJ]

The arena would be fine so long as corporate sponsors say it is.

 

[derbyfan]

Can the MTS Centre be expanded to meet NHL requirements, or is 15,000 as big as it gets?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

There is no official requirement for seating for an NHL arena - there are suggested minimum seating capacity numbers, but if the Rangers wanted to build a new 12,000 seat arena, they could and the league couldn't do anything about it.

It's not a question of just "is a 15,000 seat arena too small for an NHL team" - it's a question of, "if the arena is packed every night, will the team generate enough revenue to have a reasonable chance to be self-sufficient?" If that team can command $75 ticket prices on average and still sell out, seating won't be an issue. If the team is going to only average 13,000 a night, it wouldn't matter if the arena was 15,000 seats or 21,000 seats.

Remember how the Boston Red Sox talked about a new stadium because they needed more seating to stay competitive? They're still there at Fenway Park and there's no plans for a new stadium - they added maybe 1,000 seats to the current structure but hiked ticket prices up because of demand, and they're generating more revenue now than they ever have. Look at how many new MLB stadiums are smaller than the ones they replaced - why? Because if demand stays the same, fewer seats will allow the team to push ticket prices up and increase revenues as a result. In almost every new stadium (save Pittsburgh and Milwaukee as notable exceptions), this is exactly what happened.

So ... it's not necessarily the size of the arena that's the issue - it's whether that arena will be filled most nights and whether the team will generate enough revenue as a result to not be in the "we need money from revenue sharing" line every year.

 

[Wetcoaster]

The problem is that the economics even in the "New NHL" do not work for Winnipeg and a move back there would be contrary to Bettman's master plan of an expanding US market (and national US TV contract). Moving back to Winnipeg does not "grow" the game in Bettman-speak.

Here is what Mark Chipman who runs the Manitoba Moose had to say on the economics of the "New NHL" and the return of the NHL to Winnipeg when interviewed by Ken Wiebe of the Winnipeg Sun in January 2006. And since then the salary cap is expected to take another jump. One would expect Chipman to be in the best position to judge the economics of the NHL returning to Winnipeg.

"People should understand now that if this were ever possible, it wouldn't be possible at the upper end of that salary range," said Chipman. "You're going to have a team that, at best, is at the mid-range or lower."

"What's starting to reveal itself now is that the economics of this new world order, so to speak, aren't that different. Players salaries have gone down very nominally and it's still a very expensive league to operate in. What they've done is level the playing field. But there are still lots of teams at or very close to the payrolls they were working with before the lockout."

Here is Gary Bettman on a possible return to Winnipeg during a CBC Townhall during the lockout:

Peter Mansbridge: Gary, do you see the NHL returning to Winnipeg?

Bettman: Not in the foreseeable future. (Translated from lawyerspeak - Not a chance in "HE double hockey sticks".)

Given the lack of large corporate sector which is what the NHL looks for - not Joe Average fan and the need for new fans and new markets Winnipeg does not fit the NHL.

Winnipeg simply does not work on so many levels for the NHL. Sad but true.

 

[Gnashville]

It's not that the MTS center is too small seating wise it has too few luxury suites. Owners sell those at 75K to 200K a pop who cares if they go unused when the money is already in the bank. A full house looks good on TV but not to the owner's pockets when he is getting lower revenue than one his counterparts at 60% capacity.

 

[allin4466]

Also, when they built the MTS Centre, it was apparently designed so that they could add extra seating capacity(make it up to 18 000 or something) without having to demolish the whole building

 

[hexrae]

Also, when they built the MTS Centre, it was apparently designed so that they could add extra seating capacity(make it up to 18 000 or something) without having to demolish the whole building

I've heard talk like this but nothing really concrete. In order to add those extra 3,000 seats another level would be required. So, if they do expand in that regard, they might as well add more luxury suites and club seats while they're at it.

I believe and want the Jets back, but I understand that Winnipeg isn't ready yet.

 

[jamiebez]

Also, when they built the MTS Centre, it was apparently designed so that they could add extra seating capacity(make it up to 18 000 or something) without having to demolish the whole building

It's been said by a poster here who took a media tour during construction of the building that they were told it is possible to raise the roof and get the capacity up to 17,500. I've also heard from other credible sources that the number of seats is maxed out (with the possibility of maybe squeezing in 500 or so more), but that another 12 luxury suites can be added below the existing row of press boxes.

Personally, I believe the latter (it seems more feasible from looking the the building) but draw your own conclusions as you wish.

 

[Resolute]

I have heard from several people that the arena cannot be expanded. Those that suggest it can, say only at prohibative cost. If you've actually driven by the arena, you would realize real quickly that there is nowhere to expand. That building simply is not getting any bigger.

Winnipeg built an arena sized for concerts in Winnipeg. It wisely didn't bother with pipe dreams and faint hopes.

As far as the argument mentioned by the OP goes, the fact that the only argument Winnipeg has is "we would draw better than the worst teams do" shows that it has no real hope of succeeding. The only thing replacing a bottom feeding team attendance wise with Winnipeg will accomplish is to make Winnipeg a bottom feeding team attendance wise.

A reborn Jets would sellout for a couple years, but once the novelty wears off if the team isnt winning, Winnipeg will be right at the bottom of the league.

Its a pipe dream... Enjoy the Moose, because that is the best level of hockey Winnipeg is likely to see.

 

[mr gib]

with jerry bruckheimer , mark cuban , leslie alexander , and boots in san jose regardless of the arena where with alls in winnipeg its just never gonna happen - having said that my friends in the peg would love to have a team - at 150 a ticket and losing for a few years gee i dunno - they'd have to sell out and hit a home run corporate wise and that is very doubtful -

 

[puckhead103*]

I have heard from several people that the arena cannot be expanded. Those that suggest it can, say only at prohibative cost. If you've actually driven by the arena, you would realize real quickly that there is nowhere to expand. That building simply is not getting any bigger.

Winnipeg built an arena sized for concerts in Winnipeg. It wisely didn't bother with pipe dreams and faint hopes.

As far as the argument mentioned by the OP goes, the fact that the only argument Winnipeg has is "we would draw better than the worst teams do" shows that it has no real hope of succeeding. The only thing replacing a bottom feeding team attendance wise with Winnipeg will accomplish is to make Winnipeg a bottom feeding team attendance wise.

A reborn Jets would sellout for a couple years, but once the novelty wears off if the team isnt winning, Winnipeg will be right at the bottom of the league.

Its a pipe dream... Enjoy the Moose, because that is the best level of hockey Winnipeg is likely to see.

tell that to darren ford...lol...

 

[krudmonk]

I think the NHL should acknowledge its current state and accept an arena of that size.

 

[GSC2k2*]

I think the NHL should acknowledge its current state and accept an arena of that size.

Its current state is just fine. Are you suggesting otherwise?

 

[Resolute]

I think the NHL should acknowledge its current state and accept an arena of that size.

Even if the arena was sold out every night, Winnipeg would only rank 23rd in the league in attendance. I suspect you have little clue what the NHL's "current state" is.

 

[saska sault]

Well looks like the MTS Center is good enough to be the home of an NHL team.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Can the arena be expanded?

 

[Hugh Mann*]

Can the arena be expanded?

What an original question.

 

[LeftCoast]

I think given the fact that there is now an NHL tenant for MTS Centre, it is appropriate to allow a 3 year old thread to be bumped.

 

[DrVanntastic]

according to some critics, the MTS center is too small for NHL hockey.....

at 15k plus, its very small compared other arenas having capacity over 16k....

the new capacity requirement for a NHL styled arena is now 17.5k

however, the supporters of bringing hockey back to winnipeg suggest MTS center is not small...

these supporters back up their data by using NHL's attendance problems....

some US arenas are not filling up the capacity...

places like new jersey and st.louis have crowds of 12,000 or less......

I stopped reading when I got there. St. Louis had bad crowds for 2.5 seasons, at most; for the most part due to ownership issues. The team had great attendance for the last 2.5 years, in fact filling to capacity this season (I actually think the team fudged the numbers a bit in this regard). You should do some cursory research before trying to make a point.

 

[King_Stannis]

The MTS is NOT up to NHL standards!

.

Gary Bettman says otherwise!

Don't bother listening to him, though, it's not like he's the Commissioner of the NHL or anything.

 

[barneyg]

I stopped reading when I got there. St. Louis had bad crowds for 2.5 seasons, at most; for the most part due to ownership issues. The team had great attendance for the last 2.5 years, in fact filling to capacity this season (I actually think the team fudged the numbers a bit in this regard). You should do some cursory research before trying to make a point.

you too I guess, the message you're replying to was posted in December 2006.

 

[LeftCoast]

I stopped reading when I got there. St. Louis had bad crowds for 2.5 seasons, at most; for the most part due to ownership issues. The team had great attendance for the last 2.5 years, in fact filling to capacity this season (I actually think the team fudged the numbers a bit in this regard). You should do some cursory research before trying to make a point.

The original thread / post is from 2007.

Going forward, I think it is a valid question if MTC Centre has enough capacity. Certainly 13,000 season ticket holders, as they mentioned in the press conference, would be more than many NHL cities. It really just means the venue has to be sold out.

However, before we start comparing Winnipeg to Phoenix, Columbus, NY Islanders, or whatever comparable you want to use, you have to recognize that TNSE owns, manages and controls the facility and all parking around it, and currently, with an AHL team as the major lease tenant, runs it at a profit.