It's not even a question of who is better. It's about who holds more value. It takes age and contract into consideration. Weber is still a better player in my eyes, but PK holds a lot more value.
Confirmed Trade: [MTL/NSH] PK Subban for Shea Weber - Pt. 2
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It's not even a question of who is better. It's about who holds more value. It takes age and contract into consideration. Weber is still a better player in my eyes, but PK holds a lot more value.
Here I Pageau Again
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All that really shows is that Weber and Subban are pretty damn close.
Personally I think Weber is better right now, but Subban will take over in the future. Weber is old fashioned D man that everyone seems to love.
At first the trade really made no sense to me. Trading a #1 guy for an older #1 guy. But looking at it, it does make some sense.
Montreal isn't going to be firing Therrien and PK didn't really fit his coaching style. Weber is a better fit. But I don't think he really helps the Habs biggest issue which is offense (except maybe on the PP but I think the Habs pp had more issues than just Subban).
Either way it's a bit of an odd trade but I don't think any team got fleeced. Although in 3 years, we may be singing a different tune.
I'd bet the playoffs had as much to do with that as the trade. That pole was from early April.
I could buy that.
I really think this trade was one of fit more than one player being better than another. Laviolette wants to play an up-tempo, push the puck style. Subban's a much better fit. That's not Shea's game.
That said, there have been some legit concerns about Weber's play in the last season. Even before the trade there were lots of folks discussing it on the Preds board (even a fairly lengthy one as to whether or not we should leave Weber open in the expansion draft).
If you get the Weber that we saw for most of the past 7+ years, then Montreal won't regret this one bit. If you get the Weber from 15-16, there might be some heartache.
David Suzuki
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fwiw people are forgetting a HOF career because of one bad playoff series for Weber.
David Suzuki
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Oh sweet stats without context
congrats to the Nashville Predators on winning the Statistics cup!
King In The North
Sean Bennett
Oh sweet stats without context
congrats to the Nashville Predators on winning the Statistics cup!
Now on to the Stanley Cup
Agreed.
I also don't get the "slow defenseman" stuff. Weber, while maybe not as fast as he was when he was 26, still isn't slow and still moves well for a big physical guy.
Really he had one bad game, Josi did too but only Weber gets blasted for it.
SeenSchenn2
Itchin' For Mitch
Oh sweet stats without context
congrats to the Nashville Predators on winning the Statistics cup!
How much more context is needed when the stats are showing what is happening at even strength?
I was implying horror somehow?
Not to be contentious, but this will give you the results, and represent the date more accurately. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2046825
kingdok
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Questionning Habs trying to see a positive in their turmoil is pretty lame if you ask me.
But I see it's important for you to shed light on Habs fans hypocrisy. Nice goal to have here. Especially today.
My 2 cents as a Habs fan :
Subban is younger, more dynamic, an advanced stats beast and a marketing goldmine. He shows up every goddamn game and can play 30 minutes of relentless hockey. His problem is clearly his attitude and the multiple interviews with NSH and MTL players since yesterday show more than ever how little respect he gets in the league. None of his teammates showed up for his big announcement last year, Therrien did not make a case for him to be on Team Canada's roster and at the lowest point of our season last year he implied he was doing his job because his stats were good... I guess he sounds kinda ******* at times and he certainly did not show leadership to help the team go through last year's No-Carey-Price crisis. On the other hand, isn't it Michel Therrien's job to manage players's temper?? PK Subban was by far our best player last year yet the coach just could not deal with his extrovert attitude... then again we've seen that before with Therrien. I feel sad things end like this with a guy who clearly wanted to be here but was not showing it the right way.
Now we get Weber, an 8 time Norris top 5, leadership god, Team Canada first pairer, better goal scorer and much more reliable defensively. Yes he is 3 years older and I believe he has a minimum of 2-3 years of prime years left but he will bring a lot to a young defensive corps and will certainly help forge Paccioretty's captain character. His contract is not so bad either : because of the huge AAV vs Cap Hit gap, the Preds will get all of the cap recapture if he retires 5 years from now. I believe we are a better team until then.
Bergevin is betting that we will win a Cup soon, if we don't we will regret this for a long time.
Subban is younger, more dynamic, an advanced stats beast and a marketing goldmine. He shows up every goddamn game and can play 30 minutes of relentless hockey. His problem is clearly his attitude and the multiple interviews with NSH and MTL players since yesterday show more than ever how little respect he gets in the league. None of his teammates showed up for his big announcement last year, Therrien did not make a case for him to be on Team Canada's roster and at the lowest point of our season last year he implied he was doing his job because his stats were good... I guess he sounds kinda ******* at times and he certainly did not show leadership to help the team go through last year's No-Carey-Price crisis. On the other hand, isn't it Michel Therrien's job to manage players's temper?? PK Subban was by far our best player last year yet the coach just could not deal with his extrovert attitude... then again we've seen that before with Therrien. I feel sad things end like this with a guy who clearly wanted to be here but was not showing it the right way.
Now we get Weber, an 8 time Norris top 5, leadership god, Team Canada first pairer, better goal scorer and much more reliable defensively. Yes he is 3 years older and I believe he has a minimum of 2-3 years of prime years left but he will bring a lot to a young defensive corps and will certainly help forge Paccioretty's captain character. His contract is not so bad either : because of the huge AAV vs Cap Hit gap, the Preds will get all of the cap recapture if he retires 5 years from now. I believe we are a better team until then.
Bergevin is betting that we will win a Cup soon, if we don't we will regret this for a long time.
Yeah why don't read the post I was responding to instead of flying off into theatrics?
I've extended my condolences to hab fans.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
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It also shows that only a hundred people voted. There are tens of thousands of accounts on HF Boards.
Stephaaane
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What was shown in the graph is a real good indication, not the full picture... Just a little exemple:
Giveaway per 60 Min in 15-16:
Subban = 3.55
Weber = 1.18
AtlantaWhaler
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Good post. Tough to disagree with any of it, except for the cap recapture stuff. I honestly don't see that being as big a deal as things will change.
WesMcCauley
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Am i the only one thinking that hall+4th and maybe a little more for Subban would have been a much better deal for both Montreal and Edm than what they both did?
Hall+4th+ 2nd rounder+Ference(cap dump) for Subban
Drai+Yak for Larsson+2nd rounder?
Lucic-Mcdavid-Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-?
Klefbom-Subban
Sekera-Larsson
Hall+4th+ 2nd rounder+Ference(cap dump) for Subban
Drai+Yak for Larsson+2nd rounder?
Lucic-Mcdavid-Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-?
Klefbom-Subban
Sekera-Larsson
honestly I don't fully understand the cap recapture stuff myself, i took the info from this article : http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/will-canadiens-rue-the-day-they-traded-p-k-subban/#more-63252
WesMcCauley
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Its easy. If he retires before the contract is done, Nashville will get a cap hit of 24,5 mill divided by the years left on his deal.http://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/...Weber-Nashville-Predators--Flyers-Offer-Sheet
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