Proposal: MTL & NASHVILLE

[Mtler in Toronto]

Forsberg is streakier than generic Windex but the Preds still say no.

 

[Deam78]

Just thinking out loud here:

I'd obviously take Forsberg before Drouin, but I'm not quite there in terms of Domi-Arvidsson, I still prefer Domi.
I was higher than most on Tomasino in his draft year and still am, but Caufield is still the most valuable asset.
I wouldn't mind a Caufield-Tomasino swap if it meant upgrading the roster at one spot. I'd be okay with Caufield+Drouin vs Tomasino+Forsberg, but I would understand Preds not being on board.
So all in all I'd give the OP a long and strong consideration but I'd ultimately turn it down as it doesn't solve our main needs, but I don't think value is that far off!

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

At best this seems like Deck Chairs for the Preds... I won't get into whether I think our players are better or not... but... even if they were all basically the same, I don't see how it really helps anybody here? Forsberg and Arvidsson are good players with good contracts, and I don't see any real motivation to trade them across the aisle for different flavors at this point.

 

[Blaine8797]

MTL : Domi + Drouin + Caufield
vs
NASH : Arvidsson + Forsberg + Tomasino

I don’t think nashville touches this

 

[Blaine8797]

Just thinking out loud here:

I'd obviously take Forsberg before Drouin, but I'm not quite there in terms of Domi-Arvidsson, I still prefer Domi.
I was higher than most on Tomasino in his draft year and still am, but Caufield is still the most valuable asset.
I wouldn't mind a Caufield-Tomasino swap if it meant upgrading the roster at one spot. I'd be okay with Caufield+Drouin vs Tomasino+Forsberg, but I would understand Preds not being on board.
So all in all I'd give the OP a long and strong consideration but I'd ultimately turn it down as it doesn't solve our main needs, but I don't think value is that far off!

The value of tommy+fors for caufield and drouin is off by miles it’s way to in favour of mtl

 

[Deam78]

The value of tommy+fors for caufield and drouin is off by miles it’s way to in favour of mtl

And I said the Preds wouldn't go for it, so what's your point?

 

[Bouboumaster]

Too many pieces.

Let's cut to the meat:

Forserg + ? for Domi and Drouin?

Forsberg is, obviously, the best player here, but they get two really good pieces in return. Dromi + Drouin is, of course, > Forsberg, so, what's the missing piece?

 

[Cenzo_]

nashville says no.

forsberg is the best player in the deal and it isnt close. Arvidsson having a down year but was a pretty consisten 30/30 ish guy despite minimal pp time. He is probably worth domi. at the end of the day despite caufield being > tomasino, Forsberg >>> Drouin

lol Domi, a center, who has outscore Arvidsson, a winger, in the last two year while being younger and bigger but hey, they have similar value...

 

[DinosaurBones]

MTL : Domi + Drouin + Caufield
vs
NASH : Arvidsson + Forsberg + Tomasino

Honestly I see pretty decent and equal value going both ways but with all the Hype behind Caufield, and how important Domi is to the environment, it could potentially be Bergevins job making this deal. Saying see ya to Forsberg is scary, and Tomasino is a hell of a prospect for the organization.

So value I actually see being fairly close but I can see a trigger being pulled

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I think we all agree on this one, Both teams say Hell No.

 

[TGWL]

lol Domi, a center, who has outscore Arvidsson, a winger, in the last two year while being younger and bigger but hey, they have similar value...

Well, when you put it like that... I mean, nobody would consider that Domi dropped back down to being a 50 point player, while really this is the only season Arvidsson went backwards? Even last season he was on pace for 67'ish points/60. So, the abnormal high season for Domi, or the abnormal low season for Arvidsson? In either way, I don't think this season helped the value for either player. I'd probably take the goal scorer going forward if I were a team struggling to put pucks in the net.

I don't think Montreal is going to give up their prospect so it's not happening from their standpoint, and it's not happening from the Preds.

 

[Conbon]

Montreal fans massively overvaluing their players here. Unless Caufield is a sure fire superstar, I don't see how Montreal's players are more valuable.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I think the main problem here is just that this is still a "change of scenery" trade. It doesn't address needs for either team. Teams don't often make big multi-player trades that are only shuffling the deck a little.

I happen to think the Nashville players are slightly better, but that could be bias. Even if they weren't, they're signed for a wee bit over $10M. Domi's next contract probably means the MTL duo are > $12M? I don't see any reason to pay more on the cap for what is not any clear upgrade, nor addresses any particular needs.

 

[jfhabs]

Well, when you put it like that... I mean, nobody would consider that Domi dropped back down to being a 50 point player, while really this is the only season Arvidsson went backwards? Even last season he was on pace for 67'ish points/60. So, the abnormal high season for Domi, or the abnormal low season for Arvidsson? In either way, I don't think this season helped the value for either player. I'd probably take the goal scorer going forward if I were a team struggling to put pucks in the net.

I don't think Montreal is going to give up their prospect so it's not happening from their standpoint, and it's not happening from the Preds.

It's too bad Domi doesn't have the opportunity to play with better players. Not necessarily elite players, but let's just say the same level of players Arvidsson has been playing with. Lekhonen, Armia, Weal, Cousins, Hudon, Byron aren't legit top 6 players and he didn't find chemistry like he did with Shaw last season. He had a good stretch mid season when playing with Suzuki, but they decided Suzuki would center his own line. He's a good player, but he isn't put in a position to meet expectations. Put him with 2 other top 6 wingers and I'm sure he would be back to 70pts.

 

[TGWL]

It's too bad Domi doesn't have the opportunity to play with better players. Not necessarily elite players, but let's just say the same level of players Arvidsson has been playing with. Lekhonen, Armia, Weal, Cousins, Hudon, Byron aren't legit top 6 players and he didn't find chemistry like he did with Shaw last season. He had a good stretch mid season when playing with Suzuki, but they decided Suzuki would center his own line. He's a good player, but he isn't put in a position to meet expectations. Put him with 2 other top 6 wingers and I'm sure he would be back to 70pts.

His 3rd quartet was also with Suzuki and that was his worst quarter. I agree he'd probably be better with 2 solid top 6 players, but Arvidsson is still more proven when it comes to putting pucks in the net. Obviously if this trend continues Arvidssons value will sink fast.

 

[TGWL]

It's too bad Domi doesn't have the opportunity to play with better players. Not necessarily elite players, but let's just say the same level of players Arvidsson has been playing with. Lekhonen, Armia, Weal, Cousins, Hudon, Byron aren't legit top 6 players and he didn't find chemistry like he did with Shaw last season. He had a good stretch mid season when playing with Suzuki, but they decided Suzuki would center his own line. He's a good player, but he isn't put in a position to meet expectations. Put him with 2 other top 6 wingers and I'm sure he would be back to 70pts.

His 3rd quartet was also with Suzuki and that was his worst quarter. I agree he'd probably be better with 2 solid top 6 players, but Arvidsson is still more proven when it comes to putting pucks in the net. Obviously if this trend continues Arvidssons value will sink fast.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Assuming there is a buyout allowance without a cap penalty:

Nashville offers the Habs: 1st round pick

Habs give Nashville: Weber. Nashville buys out Weber. (this is a requirement)

This eliminates the re-capture penalty

Habs then re-sign Weber at 3 x years 7M AAV.

Weber wins as he gets the buyout money plus the addition money from his new contract with the Habs.
Habs win as they get Weber at a lower AAV and a 3 year term.
Preds win as they escape cap re-capture penalty which is inevitable as Weber would retire prior to his contract expiring.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Assuming there is a buyout allowance without a cap penalty:

Nashville offers the Habs: 1st round pick

Habs give Nashville: Weber. Nashville buys out Weber. (this is a requirement)

This eliminates the re-capture penalty

Habs then re-sign Weber.

That reads like... we trade a 1st round pick for nothing. That's not going to happen, sorry.

Of course, there aren't going to be compliance buyouts anyways, so it's kind of a moot point. But even in the hypothetical, Nashville is already safe from the re-capture, so there's no reason to go there.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

That reads like... we trade a 1st round pick for nothing. That's not going to happen, sorry.

Of course, there aren't going to be compliance buyouts anyways, so it's kind of a moot point. But even in the hypothetical, Nashville is already safe from the re-capture, so there's no reason to go there.

Nashville is not safe from re-capture. The re-capture penalty is ugly.

Weber wins as he gets the buyout money plus the addition money from his new contract with the Habs.
Habs win as they get Weber at a lower AAV and a 3 year term.
Preds win as they escape cap re-capture penalty which is inevitable as Weber would retire prior to his contract expiring.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Nashville is not safe from re-capture.

Weber wins as he gets the buyout money plus the addition money from his new contract with the Habs.
Habs win as they get Weber at a lower AAV and a 3 year term.
Preds win as they escape cap re-capture penalty which is inevitable as Weber would retire prior to his contract expiring.

Ok, no need to re-hash that here, but you won't get us agreeing to it, since none of us believes the re-capture will apply. If you want to make the hypothetical assumption that it does apply - why, not since you're taking the approach that compliance buyouts might be a thing too - then, ok, fill your boots.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Ok, no need to re-hash that here, but you won't get us agreeing to it, since none of us believes the re-capture will apply. If you want to make the hypothetical assumption that it does apply - why, not since you're taking the approach that compliance buyouts might be a thing too - then, ok, fill your boots.

1. I do think compliance buyout will be implemented to help with cap management after the inevitable cap-lowering (or artificial flat cap scenario). But that's another argument for another day. Let's assume it happens.

2. As of now, the re-capture penalty stands. Other teams have been hit with re-capture due to early retirement of a player therefore the precedent is there and it is written into the CBA. It would be unfair to those teams who were hit with re-capture, to have the Preds escape it.

So yeah, its a viable situation IMO.

 

[mouser]

Assuming there is a buyout allowance without a cap penalty:

Nashville offers the Habs: 1st round pick

Habs give Nashville: Weber. Nashville buys out Weber. (this is a requirement)

This eliminates the re-capture penalty

Habs then re-sign Weber at 3 x years 7M AAV.

Weber wins as he gets the buyout money plus the addition money from his new contract with the Habs.
Habs win as they get Weber at a lower AAV and a 3 year term.
Preds win as they escape cap re-capture penalty which is inevitable as Weber would retire prior to his contract expiring.

The NHL wouldn't allow it. They blocked some similar attempted shenanigans with Lecavalier back in 2013.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The NHL wouldn't allow it. They blocked some similar attempted shenanigans with Lecavalier back in 2013.

What is the basis of not allowing it? Did Lecavalier's situation include cap-recapture penalties?

If anything, this gives the league a chance to "bail-out" the Preds on cap-recapture in the future.

 

[TT1]

dont see why Nashville does this

 

[mouser]

What is the basis of not allowing it? Did Lecavalier's situation include cap-recapture penalties?

If anything, this gives the league a chance to "bail-out" the Preds on cap-recapture in the future.

According to reports at the time, Tampa intended to trade Lecavalier to Toronto. The Leafs would then buy out Lecavalier and he would re-sign with Tampa at a lower cap number. The NHL notified teams they would consider any such re-signing as cap circumvention and reject the contract. Tampa later ended up buying out Lecavalier themselves.

https://nypost.com/2013/06/26/nhl-trips-up-buyouts/