Proposal: MTL - CLB

[CBJFan827]

I'm gonna go point by point on this post, because you have a lot of things incorrect.

An upgrade on Anderson

Nope. Anderson's younger, faster, less expensive, and lacks the injury concerns of Shaw.

plays the fourth line

Anderson played a single game on our 4th line (last night) and played 4ish more minutes than the other two 4th liners who get stapled to the bench by Torts. He's been on our 3rd line averaging over 14 minutes a game otherwise, right about where he should be.

a guy that is sitting on the 4th line

See above. One game.

really should be competing for that 2RW spot instead and be a 3RW on a deep team

He has been playing 3RW other than last night. We agree that's where he should be and will continue to be for the Jackets

A 35-40pts 3C in Shaw for the next 4 years.

Shaw's injury concerns don't engender a ton of excitement for me or other CBJ fans. We already have Riley Nash, Brendan Dubinsky, Nick Foligno, and Boone Jenner in that sort of bottom six 30-ish point role. If anything, we should be trying to trade one of them for more offensive juice, not add another.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Didn’t Kypreos start a BS rumor about Anderson last season? The guy is a hack and has no clue about what’s going on with Columbus.

 

[Just Linda]

The cbj havent been able to stay healthy the past 3-5yrs so why trade a great goal scoring kid for shaw? Cap makes no sense age makes no sense and people saying 3c who does he beat out over Nash Wennberg and pld? Getting Shaw for the wing would be a downgrade... makes 0 sense

I wasn’t saying Shaw has more value, just that he doesn’t have zero value

 

[firstemperor]

OP's proposal is awful for CBJ. Don't think Anderson is anything special, but what he provides is definitely sought after and he definitely has solid value around the league. Nothing MTL gives up is even remotely enticing on the other end.

 

[xNogaitx]

OP's proposal is awful for CBJ. Don't think Anderson is anything special, but what he provides is definitely sought after and he definitely has solid value around the league. Nothing MTL gives up is even remotely enticing on the other end.

To say that "nothing MTL gives up is even remotely enticing" is in bad faith.

A forward who can play all 3 forward positions, is good at faceoffs, and signed for 4 seasons under 4M? Yeah sure with the newest cap hit that's on the high end of a 3rd liner/bottom 2nd liner, but that's not like he's overpaid by 2M AAV here, he's overpaid by a couple hundred thousand. Retention can be had easily in those kinds of deals.
People on HF put no value on those kinds of players who play a gritty, team lifting, type of game, yet reality shows trade after trade that GMs value those players highly all around the league.

Second of all, to say that a guy like Scherbak has no value is also of bad faith. If I was to tell you that a guy on the Marlies (*cough* Kapanen) is a PPG player and is having difficulties (prior to this year) cracking a roster, you'd have all of the Leafs players including him in trades involving late 1st and other pieces. To prove my point, see how many trade deals involved Kapanen on this board last year. So, not trying to compare Kapanen and Scherbak as they are two different types of players, one being a speedy guy, the other being a playmaker, but points production being fairly similar, you'd think a lot of teams would be interested in giving a guy like him a chance. His value is probably near that of a second at the moment.

As for the conditional picks, those are even more of value to Columbus, as they reflect what has been done over the past 2 years by many GMs in trades to decrease the price on acquisition over uncertainties (see players playing less than 40 games due to injuries or not cracking the lineup).


Now I get it, it's a Habs players being traded so the "perceived value" will always be lower, but sometimes you gotta look at actual #s and what's being done around the league consistently.

 

[CBJFan827]

To say that "nothing MTL gives up is even remotely enticing" is in bad faith.

A forward who can play all 3 forward positions, is good at faceoffs, and signed for 4 seasons under 4M? Yeah sure with the newest cap hit that's on the high end of a 3rd liner/bottom 2nd liner, but that's not like he's overpaid by 2M AAV here, he's overpaid by a couple hundred thousand. Retention can be had easily in those kinds of deals.
People on HF put no value on those kinds of players who play a gritty, team lifting, type of game, yet reality shows trade after trade that GMs value those players highly all around the league.

Second of all, to say that a guy like Scherbak has no value is also of bad faith. If I was to tell you that a guy on the Marlies (*cough* Kapanen) is a PPG player and is having difficulties (prior to this year) cracking a roster, you'd have all of the Leafs players including him in trades involving late 1st and other pieces. To prove my point, see how many trade deals involved Kapanen on this board last year. So, not trying to compare Kapanen and Scherbak as they are two different types of players, one being a speedy guy, the other being a playmaker, but points production being fairly similar, you'd think a lot of teams would be interested in giving a guy like him a chance. His value is probably near that of a second at the moment.

As for the conditional picks, those are even more of value to Columbus, as they reflect what has been done over the past 2 years by many GMs in trades to decrease the price on acquisition over uncertainties (see players playing less than 40 games due to injuries or not cracking the lineup).


Now I get it, it's a Habs players being traded so the "perceived value" will always be lower, but sometimes you gotta look at actual #s and what's being done around the league consistently.

The problem with your deal is it addresses no needs for Columbus. We trade our only RW with size for a player in a similar situation to Sonny Milano in Scherbak (had some success at the AHL level, doesn't seem to have shown enough to play the time/role his skillset dictates) and a player we already have several of in that role. Torts already is unwilling to play Milano (let alone a 4th line), so I don't have faith Scherbak would break our lineup.

The package of Scherbak and Shaw may have some value to another team, but it just doesn't do anything to help Columbus. It's a lateral move at best, unfortunately.

 

[firstemperor]

To say that "nothing MTL gives up is even remotely enticing" is in bad faith.

A forward who can play all 3 forward positions, is good at faceoffs, and signed for 4 seasons under 4M? Yeah sure with the newest cap hit that's on the high end of a 3rd liner/bottom 2nd liner, but that's not like he's overpaid by 2M AAV here, he's overpaid by a couple hundred thousand. Retention can be had easily in those kinds of deals.
People on HF put no value on those kinds of players who play a gritty, team lifting, type of game, yet reality shows trade after trade that GMs value those players highly all around the league.

Second of all, to say that a guy like Scherbak has no value is also of bad faith. If I was to tell you that a guy on the Marlies (*cough* Kapanen) is a PPG player and is having difficulties (prior to this year) cracking a roster, you'd have all of the Leafs players including him in trades involving late 1st and other pieces. To prove my point, see how many trade deals involved Kapanen on this board last year. So, not trying to compare Kapanen and Scherbak as they are two different types of players, one being a speedy guy, the other being a playmaker, but points production being fairly similar, you'd think a lot of teams would be interested in giving a guy like him a chance. His value is probably near that of a second at the moment.

Using the volume of trade threads the Leafs have made on certain players is a terrible barometer to judge real-life value on the team. Look at how big our fanbase is, and how extreme the opinions are. Just yesterday, we had a Trade Matthews thread on the main board.

As for Kapanen vs Scherbak, the difference is Scherbak is more of a top 6 or bust player. Kapanen's role has already been situated firmly as a PK, 2-way, middle 6 guy that prioritizes defense. The reason he's PPG is just his upside showing that he can move up in the lineup- though the sample size is too small to say anything definitive. Either way, I don't really buy the argument as I don't think Kapanen would swing the needle for Anderson either. Though I would argue he has more value because he has a defined role on a team, whether or not he fulfills his top 6 upside. He brings an element that not many players have and will be sought after- his gamebreaking wheels.

Shaw doesn't have much value to any team. He provides an edge, but his contract makes him a net negative. He also doesn't address any size/intimidation issues that teams are looking to mimic now after they saw WSH/Winnipeg take the next step last year.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

 

[ole ole]

Don't try that bull**** here. He's never managed even 30 points in a Habs uniform, and never managed 40 points ever in his career. And Anderson is a far superior goal scorer.



Are you seriously trying to sell Shaw - Andrew Shaw - as an "upgrade" on Josh Anderson? He's slower, smaller, older, much more injury prone, VASTLY more overpaid, and scores at the same rate but doesn't manage to stay healthy enough to actually have the same amount of points on the board. Indeed, that "extra 5-10 points" is pure fabricated fantasy of the most absurdly dishonest kind - Shaw has never, not once, outscored Anderson in a season since Anderson became a NHL regular. And if he was actually any use whatsoever at C he'd be playing that position. Everything he brings is already on the Jackets team - I'd say we have five more of him already, except that every single one of those examples is a clearly better player, and most of them are on better contracts. (Foligno, Jenner, Dubinsky, Anderson himself, Nash.)

Shaw has zero value to the Jackets. Zero.

So true.Shaw has not put up 30 pts while playing for the Habs. The closest he came was 29 pts in 68 games.

 

[ole ole]

original deal was
1rst (lottery protected) for 2nd (CBJ) + Shaw + Scherback.

Bad deal for MTL imo, easily. Just willing to cough up a heavy premium for additional 1rst rounders as a rebuilding team.

WHAT! Shut this down.No way in hell the Habs would give up that .

 

[Legend123]

WHAT! Shut this down.No way in hell the Habs would give up that for some random 4th liner.

That's what I said to that jackets fan. But it wasnt for Andersen it was for a 1rst alone.

 

[ole ole]

That's what I said to that jackets fan. But it wasnt for Andersen it was for a 1rst alone.

Oh ,Can't see the Jackets interested in that.