Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
If that's the case, may as well load up and go all in. Keep Mike Green as well.
Speculation: Mrazek trade to FLA?
- Thread starter BinCookin
- Start date
If that's the case, may as well load up and go all in. Keep Mike Green as well.
Shaman464
No u
Defense is fine, but that top 9 is ugly, the first line has a 2nd line center, and two third line wingers on it.
ShelbyZ
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2015
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Attaching value to goalies seems to be a crapshoot these days.
Mike Smith just played an ASG and Calgary essentially got him for a conditional pick in this summers draft that will fall somewhere between #47-61 if the Flames make the playoffs, or #62-77 if they miss, and a college prospect that seemed keen on finishing his senior year and hitting the NHL UFA market.
It's possible that given the costs(both current and future)/risks/etc. associated with both goalies, other GM's might not want to take either one of the Wings goalies on at the TDL unless it's for an absolute bargain.
I think Howard ends up being easier to move this offseason when he has one year left at an actual salary over $1M less than his cap hit, and there's no restriction on where he can be sent since his NTC comes off completely on 7/1/18.
50-0% percent retention on Howard for 18/19 will make his cap hit anywhere from 2.64M-5.291M, while the actual salary would fall at 2.125M-4.25M. There might be more value there for a team that might have a hard time attracting UFAs, throwing out the kind of money guys like Chad Johnson/Bernier/Mason got on the UFA market last summer and/or might not be one of the 10 teams on Howards accepted list.
Even if you don't think Mrazek is "the goalie of the future", why not keep him for the time being until this "goalie of the future" appears? I'm not really sure where you think this goalie will come from. FA signing? Forget about it, no top goalie hits the UFA market anymore, so unless you consider a Ryan Miller type of goalie, as a goalie of the future, it's not through free agency. Prospects? Nobody is giving up on top goalie prospects. Trade? Lol not with Ken Holland around..
Even if we decide to draft the goalie of the future this year, that's still minimum 4 years until he plays. Petruzzelli and Larsson are complete wildcards.
Redder Winger
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- May 4, 2017
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Because the only way they can keep Mrazek is if they can find someone to take Howard. They can't bring back both again next season. They can walk away from Mrazek this offseason and free up $4 million in cap space to help sign players like Larkin, Mantha and Athanasiou.
unless you think ken holland has intentionally saddled this team with crippling untradeable contracts, then you MUST believe he can trade one of howard, helm, nielsen, ericsson, abby
you dont trade away youth when you're rebuilding for the sole purpose of the cap
Ha, Mrazek's contract is also crippling and untradable. He was paid to be the starter, remember? Remember when he was an early Vezina finalist? Remember this offseason when no one wanted him for free? His play the last two seasons is one of the reasons this team is garbage.
I also don't consider Mrazek "youth" anymore so I don't really care what they do with him.
he is 25
the DRW are a rebuilding team
goalies almost always peak later then skaters do
the difference between his bad contract and all the ones i mentioned is simple, age
you wanna save cap space or open up space, great idea. but be smart about it and dump the more expensive short/long term contracts first
you wanna get more assets for the rebuild, great idea.. but be smart about it and move the contracts you can afford(not young) to move that will bring in that desired return
waltdetroit
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- Jul 20, 2010
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I think it's disingenuous to think the if either goalie gets hot, GM's will miraculously make offers. The GM's (and/or their staffs) have watched Mrz & Howie much more than most of us have over the years and have already made their opinion. IMO- Unless there are big injuries to a playoff team, there's just a slim chance that either get traded. Also it doesn't make sense that if a GM wants Mrz on the hope of competing for a position to offer anything when he can wait until the post season and get him a lower salary
He’ll be 26 in two weeks and be a free agent next offseason. If mangement isn’t prepared to commit a multi-year deal to him by now how can you suggest he’s part of the plan going forward as a rebuilding team?
They’ll be right back where they were with Howard and will have no room for any young goalie coming through the system like Larrson or Petruzelli
There’s only four ways to solve the goaltending situation this offseason:
1. Trade Jimmy Howard
2. Trade Petr Mrazek
3. Don’t qualify Petr Mrazek
4. Buy out Jimmy Howard
That’s it. Both aren’t coming back.
Redder Winger
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I sure as hell hope they don't come back.
But don't be so sure.
Reportedly, there's no love lost between these two. So that doesn't help matters either.
Henkka
Registered User
I don't think Jimmy Howard has trade value at this season. But he could have it at next, because it's his last year. Multi-year-deals are pretty much untradeable, especially in case like this.. At next season the situation is totally different.
I think the best bet is to extend Mrazek for 4 years, with cheaper caphit than his qualifying offer. Like 3M.
4 seasons could give enough time wait for our next goaltending core to develop.
Keep Howard as a backup, play him against easier opponents to get shiny looking stats, and then sell him at the 2019 deadline with max 50% retention.
This is funny situation, my opinion changes every how to do it. But switch the value somehow to future.
I think the best bet is to extend Mrazek for 4 years, with cheaper caphit than his qualifying offer. Like 3M.
4 seasons could give enough time wait for our next goaltending core to develop.
Keep Howard as a backup, play him against easier opponents to get shiny looking stats, and then sell him at the 2019 deadline with max 50% retention.
This is funny situation, my opinion changes every how to do it. But switch the value somehow to future.
He also won't have a NTC in his final year. I personally think he gets moved this offseason with $1.5 million retained.
HIFE
Registered User
Count me as a fan who's lost all faith/hope that Mrazek is a legitimate starting goalie. Not trying to attack those who are excited by his game but even with his shutouts and last two wins I'm not seeing it. The same flaws other members like tsweeny have pointed to in the past are not magically patched up. Mrazek is erratic- the same huge rebounds while consistently flailing far out of his net.
I keep thinking of Neuvirth, the expectation he was the answer for Washington several years back. He flirted with the starting role a few times with different clubs but ultimately has become an acceptable backup. We don't know these guys' trajectory. Possibly Mrazek goes to Europe, to the NHL, AHL, before showing back up and winning the Vezina. Seriously, after Thomas anything is possible.
IMO right now Howard is in another league of stability, positioning, calmness, etc. I guess I've been stunned with how solid he's been. We all carry different opinions but I still think he's been our MVP so far.
This is a great topic, considering what's best for the future while the Wings rebuild. I can understand the logic of getting rid of either... or both. It's a tough call and am curious what direction the team goes.
Henkka
Registered User
I believe that that alien that has been impersonating Mrazek has been recalled to the mothership and our Petr is back. Therefore trade Howard and Green(both with 50% retention) to the Islanders for Halak(cap dump) + 2018 1st(higher of Calgary/NYI) + 2018 2nd(higher of Calgary/NYI).
The Isles do this for immediate help in goal, on the blue line and improving a mediocre PP. Can't see how both Howard and/or Green can't even but help the league's 30th ranked PK. Howard( a New York state native) at 50% retention makes his cap hit very affordable next season along with Griess. As the Isles have both their own and Calgary's 2018 first and second rd. picks, they can afford the price the Wings are asking while still keeping a pick in both rounds.
Detroit does this to clear cap space, add picks and give Mrazek rest of season to prove himself(which I am confident that he will do)
The Isles do this for immediate help in goal, on the blue line and improving a mediocre PP. Can't see how both Howard and/or Green can't even but help the league's 30th ranked PK. Howard( a New York state native) at 50% retention makes his cap hit very affordable next season along with Griess. As the Isles have both their own and Calgary's 2018 first and second rd. picks, they can afford the price the Wings are asking while still keeping a pick in both rounds.
Detroit does this to clear cap space, add picks and give Mrazek rest of season to prove himself(which I am confident that he will do)
I disagree. It is not ideal to have 9 million on your goalies, but it is doable for one more year.
kliq
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- Dec 17, 2017
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They do, but 2 (Bertuzzi/Frk) are not going to command anything significant. They will have about 15mil to spend (7mil from the rising cap, 6 mil from Green, 700K from Booth, and 1mil in relief from Weiss).
If they could move Howard though, that would make things ALOT easier. I could also see Holland trying to move AA for a cheaper young D (similar to what Yzerman did with Drouin/Sergachev).
The cap is going up. Also, Mantha's second half slump is lowering his next contract. Mantha and AA will sign bridge deals. Larkin will sign a longterm deal. Bertuzzi and Frk will cost roughly 1 mil each. They also have other areas to potentially shed salary. Kronwall LTIR is what I am hoping for. If not, try to do something with Ericsson/Helm/someone else.
Yes they are in a cap crunch, but Holland/ whoever is in charge will have to get creative. You don't let a talented RFA goalie walk for nothing, or trade him for a 5th round pick.
I think you’re on the right track here talking about an extension, I’m just not sure either side would be looking at four years. Mrazek can be a non-qualified FA this summer or a UFA next summer. In either scenario he is in position to decide where he wants to play -- whether it's a choice between two bad offers, five good offers, or Europe -- which is what a lot of those promoting the idea of a QO don’t fully appreciate. Mrazek, if he's playing well, is inevitably going to control the situation. Let's assume he gets qualified and has a good start to next season. In order to keep Mrazek the Wings would have to make him a multi-year extension offer prior to the 2019 TDL (based on about 40 games) that is good enough to discourage him from becoming a FA, or offer him the best deal in free agency that summer. For a goaltender that won’t be needed for a long playoff run, perhaps not even a single playoff game, for a good chunk if not the entirety of his contract. This is pretty high on the scale of bad ideas for a rebuilding team that could use all the Cap space it can get.
The way Mrazek is playing he is likely to have more trade value now than he would next year as an expensive pending UFA. There is some added value in the fact an acquiring team will have a window to offer him an extension prior to the QO deadline. This is what happened with Mason at the 2013 Deadline. Thanks to Mason's agent being given permission to talk to other teams, Philadelphia knew they could extend him at a significant discount ($1.5M, signed a week after the TDL trade) to his QO ($3.2M) and considered him a potential long-term solution, so they gave up a third-round pick and a backup goaltender. A year from now, even if Mrazek is playing well his trade value will depend on circumstances beyond anyone’s control. As Tampa Bay found out last year, if no one is in dire need of a good but expensive pending FA goaltender, there is no trade market.
It’s possible that Mrazek’s recent heavy usage is connected to either contract extension talks or trade interest. Last year, Brendan Smith got more ice time in his final seven games before the TDL (21-plus minutes per game) than any seven-game stretch in his Red Wings career; four games of those seven he had 30-plus shifts after getting just one 30-shift game the entire season to that point. There were contract extension talks prior to him being traded, with his trade value perhaps connected to the Rangers scouting him heavily at that time and wanting to see him given plenty of ice time given the role they projected for him.
What’s a good extension offer? I think more along the lines of two years (last RFA season, first UFA season) at $2.5M. The problem facing Mrazek is that his current hot streak will probably end, as they all do, and the Wings could play worse as standings reality sets in and Green and perhaps a few other players are traded. He could end the season in Pavelec territory statistically and this summer be looking at a $1.25-2M one-year offer as a backup. With Mrazek under contract for two years the Wings can move Howard as soon as his NTC expires, or even a week earlier at the Draft when he would probably waive the clause. Mrazek playing well at $2.5M and locked up through 2019-20 season becomes an attractive trade asset, and gives everyone (including perhaps a new GM) two more years to see if it's worth Mrazek staying beyond that.
But right now this team doesn’t need to commit more long-term money, or any long-term money, to a goaltender. They don’t need it for competitive reasons and there are plenty of cheap alternatives every year that can contribute to higher lottery picks.
kliq
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Correction, its supposed to rise at least 3.6, possibly 7.
Rise in salary cap good news for Oilers, Leafs - Article - TSN
Dotter
THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
I hope with the better and more consistent he plays, the trade return starts increasing. Few months ago I would have taken a 4th. Now I am leaning towards a 2nd rounder.
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