Mrazek starts @ Minnesota Sunday Nyquist sent down

Jul 30, 2005
17,659
4,588
I mean, what is location, really
You may have difficulties because they can't keep up with you but I don't think anyone ever dumbs their game down to a bad teammates level.

I've heard of raising your teammates games with your talent level...but it should never work the other way.
I think it's different for a flashy playmaker. Nyquist, a little bit like Datsyuk or Zetterberg, makes those nifty passes that come out of nowhere. If a teammate doesn't see that option, he won't be able to get the pass. After a while, that can get frustrating and you stop making that pass because you know they won't be able to handle it.

That's what I mean.
 

JmanWingsFan

Your average Jman
Aug 18, 2011
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@EZbake You keep spewing this crap about developing bad habits. You never provide any examples. Heck, Nazem Kadri hasn't played much and he comes up full time and looks pretty darn good.
 

WingedWheel1987

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
13,315
897
GPP Michigan
Nyquist getting sent down shows how desperate this management team is. They are seriously worried about missing the playoffs (rightfully so) but it would seem they are missing the point here, namely, that they are sacrificing the future of the team for a 1st or 2nd round exit.

The streak being maintained will allow management to trick the ignorant fanbase into believing they are still contenders.
 

CloneHakanPlease*

Guest
@EZbake You keep spewing this crap about developing bad habits. You never provide any examples. Heck, Nazem Kadri hasn't played much and he comes up full time and looks pretty darn good.

You really have never played a sport, have you slugger? There are a myriad of examples in all sports about this happening. It isn't a foreign theory that can be proved with statistics, it's a commonly accepted fact. You questioning it honestly feels like the equivalent of asking someone to prove gravity is real, and then refusing to believe in it because the person explaining sucks at physics and can't give a detailed explanation. If you really want examples look no further than Jakub Kindl, who looked much worse after getting called up after long stints in the AHL than he had in his initial callup. Look at players who return from playing in the Europe. Jiri Hudler's struggles that year weren't just from adjusting to the smaller ice surfaces he played in less than a year earlier bud. You ever hear of Patrick O'Sullivan? PLAYING AGAINST WORSE PLAYERS EVENTUALLY MAKES YOU REGRESS. YOU GET TIRED OF DOMINATING THE PEERS AND YOU GET BAD HABITS AS THE SAME LEVEL OF EFFORT AND SKILL ARE NOT NEEDED TO WIN, SO YOU UNKNOWINGLY ADAPT. IT IS HUMAN NATURE IN ALMOST ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE TO ADAPT TO THE SITUATION. Don't bother arguing the semantics of my examples because I literally have hundreds more I could interchange them with. There are some things that can be debatable through statistics. This is not one of them.

It's also funny when you talk about preponderance of evidence when 90% of your posts are unintelligible ******** with no merit to their claims. "THE WINGS SHOULD BE UP 100-0" after a period where we got outshot 6-13. "All you fans are spoiled" when none of the people you claim have ever given up as easily on GDTS as you have on a constant basis. Even the Kadri comparison is in no way relevant, as his stints were for longer than one game each, much younger, and has made a progressively upward trend, whereas it is clear Nyquist has not looked as comfortable this season due to confidence issues and not being used to the speed of the NHL game. COMPLETELY different situations.
 
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Aug 6, 2012
10,752
5
I play tennis at a pretty high level. When I consistently play with players who are considerably worse than me its VERY easy to develop bad habits. I'm not sure if its the same in hockey, but I wouldn't be surprised.
 

FlashyG

Registered User
Dec 15, 2011
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Toronto
Nyquist getting sent down shows how desperate this management team is. They are seriously worried about missing the playoffs (rightfully so) but it would seem they are missing the point here, namely, that they are sacrificing the future of the team for a 1st or 2nd round exit.

I think the sign of desperation on Management's part would be waiving guys on 1 way deals to make room for the kids.

If anything I feel like Management isn't desperate enough...they appear to be going with the same line-up they started the year with as people come back from injury.
 

CloneHakanPlease*

Guest
I think the sign of desperation on Management's part would be waiving guys on 1 way deals to make room for the kids.

If anything I feel like Management isn't desperate enough...they appear to be going with the same line-up they started the year with as people come back from injury.

I agree, and this is a big reason why I actually think it will be better long term if we miss the Playoffs this year. Management has become too complacent and stagnant. I wouldn't be as mad as if I knew most of the problem players will be here next year too, and if I didn't have the feeling Datsyuk is dipping back to the motherland after this season.
 
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Jul 30, 2005
17,659
4,588
I mean, what is location, really
I think ultimately we only need to be pretty bad for 2 or so seasons, and not awful either. Pick in the top 12 or so 2 years in a row and I think this team could be very good in no time. The prospect pool has excellent depth and a ton of complimentary players, but lacks the top end guys that they would get.
 

TheMoreYouKnow

Registered User
May 3, 2007
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I think the sign of desperation on Management's part would be waiving guys on 1 way deals to make room for the kids.

If anything I feel like Management isn't desperate enough...they appear to be going with the same line-up they started the year with as people come back from injury.

I think you disregard that management thinks the line-up that started the year is the best line-up and the kids aren't good enough generally. To them, playing the kids means giving up on the year and they aren't willing to do it. They'd rather stick with the "old horses" because those guys might claw their way to a 6th seed.

They might well be right in their evaluation, for what it's worth, but the question is whether giving up on the year may not be the better approach in the long run given how unlikely a Cup is for this group.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,200
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crease
I play tennis at a pretty high level. When I consistently play with players who are considerably worse than me its VERY easy to develop bad habits. I'm not sure if its the same in hockey, but I wouldn't be surprised.

As the saying goes, iron sharpens iron.
 

JmanWingsFan

Your average Jman
Aug 18, 2011
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If you keep saying the same thing over, it's not going to make it true. So I'll say it again: 40 some odd games is not going to teach people bad habits. This guy is a professional and is payed to play the game. Part of the job is being able to adjust to new environments, systems, different teams and competitions, ect... That's why you see many free agents make seamless transitions from one system to another without much notice. 47 games is too short an interval to grow accustomed to that kind of competition. He spent 50 games last year in the AHL, came up, and looked fine and dandy. He hasn't even played as many games this year in the AHL as last year, but he's playing under Blashill, who is a better coach at developing young talent than Fraser ever will be. I don't see any reason to subscribe to this archaic myth that Nyquist will be damaged goods playing parts of two seasons in the AHL. Smith's played parts of three season in the AHL, he's looked fine outside of the typical rookie mistakes.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
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I play tennis at a pretty high level. When I consistently play with players who are considerably worse than me its VERY easy to develop bad habits. I'm not sure if its the same in hockey, but I wouldn't be surprised.

He is not in ECHL or any other beer league last time I checked.

People are overreacting for this believed "prospect killing" like nuts.
 

Mort Divine

Registered User
Jun 12, 2012
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Fargo, ND
He is not in ECHL or any other beer league last time I checked.

People are overreacting for this believed "prospect killing" like nuts.

They're really not, when you can't progress you only stagnate and stagnation can Pejorative Slur forward progress when he is in the league full time
 

CloneHakanPlease*

Guest
If you keep saying the same thing over, it's not going to make it true. So I'll say it again: 40 some odd games is not going to teach people bad habits. This guy is a professional and is payed to play the game. Part of the job is being able to adjust to new environments, systems, different teams and competitions, ect... That's why you see many free agents make seamless transitions from one system to another without much notice. 47 games is too short an interval to grow accustomed to that kind of competition. He spent 50 games last year in the AHL, came up, and looked fine and dandy. He hasn't even played as many games this year in the AHL as last year, but he's playing under Blashill, who is a better coach at developing young talent than Fraser ever will be. I don't see any reason to subscribe to this archaic myth that Nyquist will be damaged goods playing parts of two seasons in the AHL. Smith's played parts of three season in the AHL, he's looked fine outside of the typical rookie mistakes.

You wanted examples, I gave you examples. And your counter examples arent really relevant since pretty much everyone agrees Smith is behind his projected development. He isn't 19, he is 24. That may seem young, but Sam Ganger is younger has been in the league 6 years. Ilya Kovalchuk, who many consider a true veteran, is a whopping 5 years older than him. Does that put things in perspective? And quit putting words in my mouth. I never said the regression would be permanent or that he was damaged goods. Simply that you can't expect him to adjust well if you give him the odd one game callup and demote him without room to make mistakes. No one is doubting his professionalism either, it's just a fact of life. No matter how hard you try, you can't get used to the NHL game by playing at AHL speed.


Also, I can't be the only one who lold at the irony and wording of the bolded part. You have a rare knack for this kinda stuff.
 
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JmanWingsFan

Your average Jman
Aug 18, 2011
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They're really not, when you can't progress you only stagnate and stagnation can Pejorative Slur forward progress when he is in the league full time

2 years in the AHL with a couple of callups=/= stagnation. If playing 2 years in the AHL killed your growth, there wouldn't be many players in this league.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
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Altering a player's developmental path alters the finished product.

If they put Kindl up sooner and actually let him play through his mistakes, I guarantee he would be a much better player now than he is today, and would end up being a better player as well.

Can't see the argument that keeping players in the AHL that are ultra-talented is a good thing, or alternatively, that it is constructive in any way. With tatar they wanted to see his production increase. With Nyquist his production has been there since day 1. Guy needs to get used to playing against the best players, and the speed and skill of the NHL. He knows he can play in the AHL, he knows he can be one of the top scorers in the AHL, he knows he doesn't belong there. He could be learning from Pavel and Henrik right now. That is invaluable.
 
Aug 6, 2012
10,752
5
He is not in ECHL or any other beer league last time I checked.

People are overreacting for this believed "prospect killing" like nuts.

It doesn't matter what level. Its human nature.

Playing against lesser talent could result in a lot of bad habits. Nyquist could maybe start playing weak along the boards or perimeter hockey because it works in the AHL or he doesn't want to get injured.

Will he? Its anyone's guess, but its a definite possibility.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,682
2 years in the AHL with a couple of callups=/= stagnation. If playing 2 years in the AHL killed your growth, there wouldn't be many players in this league.

Can't think of any other teams that would have someone top 10 in scoring in the AHL their first 2 years, and wouldn't have them on their NHL roster by now either.
 

polymath

Registered User
Feb 15, 2013
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JmanWingsFan

Your average Jman
Aug 18, 2011
4,461
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Somewhere
Altering a player's developmental path alters the finished product.

If they put Kindl up sooner and actually let him play through his mistakes, I guarantee he would be a much better player now than he is today, and would end up being a better player as well.
How do you know? Why are you so certain?

Can't see the argument that keeping players in the AHL that are ultra-talented is a good thing, or alternatively, that it is constructive in any way. With tatar they wanted to see his production increase. With Nyquist his production has been there since day 1. Guy needs to get used to playing against the best players, and the speed and skill of the NHL. He knows he can play in the AHL, he knows he can be one of the top scorers in the AHL, he knows he doesn't belong there. He could be learning from Pavel and Henrik right now. That is invaluable.

Different organizations have different ways of bringing up their rookies. most rookies play their first games between the ages of 20-23. It's the same throughout the history of the NHL. You get the same curve. The Wings aren't any different.
 

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