Moving affiliates closer to parent

offkilter

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
1,320
301
Tampa - Orlando and Panthers - Estero makes sense BUT how many more loyal AHL markets are be sent to the scrap pile? Logic would dictate that Vancouver would be far better off in Abbotsford than Utica.

The core problem is the NHL parent teams look at the ECHL as a feeder to the AHL team but not the parent club. For fans in former AHL cities that now have the ECHL it is a TOUGH sell.

There are whispers that Manchester is looking hard at getting a team in the QMJHL and that could be a good fit.
Who ever told you they're looking at the QMJHL is full of it. The team is heading for a rebrand.
 

Centrum Hockey

Registered User
Aug 2, 2018
2,089
727
Who ever told you they're looking at the QMJHL is full of it. The team is heading for a re brand.
the rumor was awhile back that Manchester would re brand as The bruins if Boston affiliates with Manchester the Owner of the p bruins would veto anything with Worcester and Portland may still have some bad blood for Jacobs bacause of the AHL Mariners
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
Springfield Thunderbirds yearly attendance at hockeydb.com
The AHL personally intervened with Springfield after the falcons owner ran the team into the ground. the echl would be a new low for Hartford they would be better off with a junior team if the rangers leave
false, who bought the Falcons, js, the parent club....it's a different ownership group in Springfield, just as it was when the Falcons were created in a side transaction when Worcester acquired the original Springfield franchise
 

Centrum Hockey

Registered User
Aug 2, 2018
2,089
727
false, who bought the Falcons, js, the parent club....it's a different ownership group in Springfield, just as it was when the Falcons were created in a side transaction when Worcester acquired the original Springfield franchise
i was referring to the Thunderbirds .a AHL team probably would not be in Springfield without Dave Andrews i probably could have explained it better
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
i was referring to the Thunderbirds .a AHL team probably would not be in Springfield without Dave Andrews i probably could have explained it better
the Thunderbirds are a relocated franchise, twice, as a matter of fact, if you had done research you would know that
 

LadyStanley

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
105,742
18,865
Sin City
LA Kings have made a change with their affiliate.

The Ontario Reign still play in Ontario at the Citizens Business Bank Arena, but their housing and practice facility is in El Segundo, at/near the LA Kings' practice facility.

It's about 60 miles between the two, so more like an away game for the kids, but no housing changes and a call up is just a walk across the building.
 

PCSPounder

Stadium Groupie
Apr 12, 2012
2,852
564
The Outskirts of Nutria Nanny
Las Vegas is opening new minor league ballpark next year. Should have all the bells and whistles for MLB Oakland's kids.
By all rights, by all the stats and the eye test, as long as nothing replaced Cashman Field, Vegas may have most deserved to lose that AAA team...







...except the league mostly flies Southwest Air. Vegas is a major hub. That saves a lot of bucks for both team and call-up travel. So the above was never going to happen.

I suspect the new park will help for more than one reason.
 

PCSPounder

Stadium Groupie
Apr 12, 2012
2,852
564
The Outskirts of Nutria Nanny
Cashman will host Lights FC soccer team.
Cashman hosted them last year... they're kind of a loud franchise.
  • Tendency to have colorful characters as coaches (El Chelis last season, Eric Wynalda next year)
  • The uniforms: black and neon
  • Having llamas in the team photo
  • That cash drop promotion
(Noticed that more than one Timbers Army regular has asked about whether Timbers2 will go to Vegas early next season, since the big team probably won't have a home game until May or even June due to stadium renovations.)

The notion of metal seats for the Vegas climate and baseball is, er, curious. Having fans that stand as often as they sit might be a bit smarter in that park, plus the seating angles are a lot better for soccer than in most baseball-oriented stadiums.

But it should be noted that the A's would have probably stayed with Sacramento in perpetuity were it not for the Giants pulling a power play. Baseball had started a trend where minor league teams were starting to locate closer to their parents (of note; I think there's one exception to the Baltimore organization's entire minor league system being located in Maryland). That has changed a bit, and with baseball, there are factors such as training facilities within the ballpark and ease of transportation and playing surfaces and the like... and there's kind of a hierarchy among the major league clubs. Minor league teams want to be with the good teams if they don't have a strong-enough tie-in with the closest MLB team. It makes for some interesting silly seasons when affiliations rotate. I'm not sure hockey is in the same place.
 

Spirit of 67

Registered User
Nov 25, 2016
7,061
4,938
Aurora, On.
Vancouver and Tampa Bay are mulling their future affiliation locations. Why? Some teams have really long tethers for call ups.

So, Florida and Tampa might want to have a mini clump of AHL teams in Florida, and Vancouver might consider moving their franchise west.

As of the start of the 18-19 season, here are the (approximate) distances between parent and affiliate

Distances kinda calculated as arena-to-arena

San Jose Sharks/Barracuda and Winnipeg Jets/Manitoba Moose = 0 miles
Toronto Maple Leafs/Marlies = 2.5 miles
Montreal Canadians/Laval Rocket = 15 miles

The above could definitely induce folks to live in one place between teams.

Los Angeles Kings/Ontario Reign = 45 miles (but up to 90 minutes away)
Colorado Avalanche/Colorado Eagles = 50 miles (but 60+ minutes)
Boston Bruins/Providence Bruins = 51 miles (but easily 60+ minutes)
Philadelphia Flyers/Leigh Valley Phantoms = 68 miles
New York Islanders/Bridgeport Soundtigers = ~70 miles
Buffalo Sabres/Rochester Americans = 76 miles
Chicago Blackhawks/Rockford Hogs = 89 miles
Anaheim Ducks/San Diego Gulls = 90 miles

Now we're up to more in the range of "easy call up", but not necessarily conducive to sleeping in your own bed range.

New York Rangers/Hartford Wolf Pack = 120 miles
Ottawa Senators/Bellville Senators = 127 miles
Arizona Coyotes/Tuscon Roadrunners = 131 miles
Washington Capitals/Hershey Bears = 134 miles
Columbus Blue Jackets/Cleveland Monsters = 144 miles
Detroit Red Wings/Grand Rapids Griffins = 158 miles
Carolina Hurricanes/Charlotte Checkers = 163 miles
New Jersey/Binghampton Devils = 168 miles
Dallas/Texas Stars = 182

2-3 hours travel time, not counting traffic or weather.

Minnesota/Iowa Wild = 246
Pittsburgh/WBS Penguins = 270

Long day of travel by car. Flying faster.

Nashville Predators/Milwaukee Admirals = 567
St Louis Blues/San Antonio Rampage = 900
Tampa Bay Lightning/Syracuse Crunch = 1268
Calgary Flames/Stockton Heat = 1294
Florida Panthers/Springfield Thunderbirds = 1391
Edmonton Oilers/Bakersfield Condors = 1742
Vegas Golden Knights/Chicago Wolves = 1758
Vancouver Canucks/Utica Comets = 2903

The last are gotta-fly-crazy-to-drive up to full-day-of-travel.
Airports matter too.

One issue the Leafs had with their team on The Rock is every road trip they made started with a flight to Toronto apparently.

Some teams may do better, if they can't be close, to have them close to major hubs so there's no connecting flight situation.
Not idea but could cut down on commute time.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
Airports matter too.

One issue the Leafs had with their team on The Rock is every road trip they made started with a flight to Toronto apparently.

Some teams may do better, if they can't be close, to have them close to major hubs so there's no connecting flight situation.
Not idea but could cut down on commute time.

uh, then why is Toronto realigned with Newfoundland, the only reason the Marlies went to where they are is because Edmonton's affiliation was playing in their backyard.....

Tampa nor Florida are interested in having affiliations closer to them, I just don't see Vancouver pulling a Calgary type of move
 

Spirit of 67

Registered User
Nov 25, 2016
7,061
4,938
Aurora, On.
uh, then why is Toronto realigned with Newfoundland, the only reason the Marlies went to where they are is because Edmonton's affiliation was playing in their backyard.....

Tampa nor Florida are interested in having affiliations closer to them, I just don't see Vancouver pulling a Calgary type of move
It's an ECHL team and you don't bring players up from the ECHL typically.
And I know at one time the Leafs were trying to do right by St. Johns for moving the team. Also, they'd probably like to have a presence there.
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
11,841
Durham, NC
Cashman hosted them last year... they're kind of a loud franchise.
  • Tendency to have colorful characters as coaches (El Chelis last season, Eric Wynalda next year)
  • The uniforms: black and neon
  • Having llamas in the team photo
  • That cash drop promotion
(Noticed that more than one Timbers Army regular has asked about whether Timbers2 will go to Vegas early next season, since the big team probably won't have a home game until May or even June due to stadium renovations.)

The notion of metal seats for the Vegas climate and baseball is, er, curious. Having fans that stand as often as they sit might be a bit smarter in that park, plus the seating angles are a lot better for soccer than in most baseball-oriented stadiums.

But it should be noted that the A's would have probably stayed with Sacramento in perpetuity were it not for the Giants pulling a power play. Baseball had started a trend where minor league teams were starting to locate closer to their parents (of note; I think there's one exception to the Baltimore organization's entire minor league system being located in Maryland). That has changed a bit, and with baseball, there are factors such as training facilities within the ballpark and ease of transportation and playing surfaces and the like... and there's kind of a hierarchy among the major league clubs. Minor league teams want to be with the good teams if they don't have a strong-enough tie-in with the closest MLB team. It makes for some interesting silly seasons when affiliations rotate. I'm not sure hockey is in the same place.

That'd be mostly correct. Baltimore's farm system consists of:

Complex Rookie - GCL Orioles (Sarasota, FL) & DSL Orioles (Boca Chica, DR)
Short Season A - Aberdeen IronBirds (Aberdeen, MA)
Low A - Delmarva Shorebirds (Salisbury, MD)
Advanced A - Frederick Keys (Frederick, MD)
Double-A - Bowie Baysox (Bowie, MD)
Triple-A - Norfolk Tides (Norfolk, VA)
 

Centrum Hockey

Registered User
Aug 2, 2018
2,089
727
Cashman hosted them last year... they're kind of a loud franchise.
  • Tendency to have colorful characters as coaches (El Chelis last season, Eric Wynalda next year)
  • The uniforms: black and neon
  • Having llamas in the team photo
  • That cash drop promotion
(Noticed that more than one Timbers Army regular has asked about whether Timbers2 will go to Vegas early next season, since the big team probably won't have a home game until May or even June due to stadium renovations.)

The notion of metal seats for the Vegas climate and baseball is, er, curious. Having fans that stand as often as they sit might be a bit smarter in that park, plus the seating angles are a lot better for soccer than in most baseball-oriented stadiums.

But it should be noted that the A's would have probably stayed with Sacramento in perpetuity were it not for the Giants pulling a power play. Baseball had started a trend where minor league teams were starting to locate closer to their parents (of note; I think there's one exception to the Baltimore organization's entire minor league system being located in Maryland). That has changed a bit, and with baseball, there are factors such as training facilities within the ballpark and ease of transportation and playing surfaces and the like... and there's kind of a hierarchy among the major league clubs. Minor league teams want to be with the good teams if they don't have a strong-enough tie-in with the closest MLB team. It makes for some interesting silly seasons when affiliations rotate. I'm not sure hockey is in the same place.
The Texas rangers turned down San Antonio in favor of Nashville even though it was farther away. Most major league teams use the closest team for rehab assignments fans in Fresno probably Will not get to see rehabbing nationals players since harrisburg pa is far closer
 

PCSPounder

Stadium Groupie
Apr 12, 2012
2,852
564
The Outskirts of Nutria Nanny
I think it's a little more complicated than mileage. Unless you're sharing a city with your AHL team, it has more to do with your AHL team's proximity to a major airport than can get a guy not only to your home city, but a potential road call-up.

Based on mileage, VGK's affiliation stinks. However, I'd bet a lot of money they're a top affiliation based on prospect ease of access to games. If Vancouver found a way to affiliate with Gwinnett/Atlanta, they'd almost instantly improve, even versus affiliating with a team in a closer city like Boise. It's a lot easier to get to Vancouver (or any other NHL city) from Atlanta than it is from Boise.

I had to go back to this one. The notion of Vancouver-Atlanta (knowing that Delta does sort of reach into Canada) amuses me. By this standard, I'd argue Hamilton would be a better spot for Vancouver. Air Canada has more than one direct flight to Toronto in a given day, after all.

Seattle spending a year without a direct affiliate might be enough time to determine how much trouble the Silvertips and Thunderbirds will be facing from the Metrosquatch. I can't see the WHL maintain all its territories through this issue and the CHL lawsuit issue. Heck, it might happen in reverse from my original conception, as the Winterhawks may be forced to move out of Oregon and thus the Thunderbirds suddenly lose their muse.
 

BattleBorn

50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
Feb 6, 2015
12,069
6,017
Bellevue, WA
I had to go back to this one. The notion of Vancouver-Atlanta (knowing that Delta does sort of reach into Canada) amuses me. By this standard, I'd argue Hamilton would be a better spot for Vancouver. Air Canada has more than one direct flight to Toronto in a given day, after all.

Seattle spending a year without a direct affiliate might be enough time to determine how much trouble the Silvertips and Thunderbirds will be facing from the Metrosquatch. I can't see the WHL maintain all its territories through this issue and the CHL lawsuit issue. Heck, it might happen in reverse from my original conception, as the Winterhawks may be forced to move out of Oregon and thus the Thunderbirds suddenly lose their muse.
It's definitely worth remembering that half of a team's games aren't in their home city and connectivity to the rest of the league may be just as important as the AHL team's proximity to home.

For that reason, Atlanta would make a lot of sense for any team. If you're going to locate an affiliate somewhere with call ups/scout access as the main concern, there aren't many places better than Atlanta since ATL has such a huge route network with Delta and other airlines. Trying to get from Hamilton to a game in LA or San Jose would most definitely be a lot more difficult than getting to LA or SJ/SF from Atlanta whether the player leaves from Hamilton or they get him a ride to Toronto to get on a plane.

I'm predicting that we're a decade or less from regularly putting call ups/assignments on a team private jet or private jet share service to get them where they're needed anyway, so it may not be a huge concern for much longer.
 

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