OT: Movies are basically flipbooks for adults (The Newly Annual Non-Pens Media Thraed)

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Brandinho

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I...want to hug you in a "Bro, finally someone gets me" type of moment.

This is exactly my biggest issue with Hollywood trying to push their narrative of more female characters and more "ethnic" characters. I want originality. There is absolutely no need to make a female version of a male character, make a ****ing female character from scratch and cast it with a female, no one is saying not to. But now Hollywood is actively ignoring male character driven anything's to keep pushing this female everything agenda, then every asian/white character is changed to a black character, why?

No, we don't need a transgender James Bond, no we don't need a black one.
Make a new character that is transgender in the James Bond world, make another agent that is black, in the James Bond world - What's that? You can have all 3 without ****ing up an iconic character? Oh ****, Hollywood...is that possible?

Also, while I like representation, especially since I am half, I like seeing more mixed ethnicity characters with mix ethnicity actors portraying them, because that is also what the world is, there are tons of people that are trying to identify with both sides, one thing I hate about Jordan Peele sometimes, is that, he ignores the fact that he's half white. I was raised to be 100% aware of both sides of my ethnicity, to not feel like I should feel closer to being black than I do for the half of my dna that isn't.

One of the big pitfalls of trying to increase representation in such a lazy way is that it sends a subtle but insidious message that there's nothing for that group to be proud of. It's kind of like how you'll see these insane Afrocentrists who argue that Mozart was black or that most of the Egyptian pharaohs were black. Why not teach a little black kid about Mansa Musa and how much of a badass he was? The richest man in history was a sub-Saharan African. Surely that will inspire more people than lying to them and waiting until they inevitably realize that Ramesses II was a ginger, Cleopatra was Greek and swarthy isn't a synonym for black.

That's also a really good point about people of mixed ethnicity having even less representation because of how reluctant anybody seems to be to acknowledge that they don't have to fit in one simple category. I'm sure that a lot of it stems from the cultural impact of the one drop rule, but it's really taken on a life of its own with the way we've circled back around to identity politics being the big thing. The problem is that identity politics involve groups of people, but one's own identity should never be subject to the opinion of anybody but themselves.

It's really hard to tell how much of this nonsense is well intentioned but misguided and how much of this is deliberately meant to undermine and antagonize people. I want more characters of every physical description, but they need to be authentic. It's the difference between writing an interesting play about the plight of a fat girl who comes from a family of fat women and is trying to break the cycle versus sticking one 200+ pound woman in an Old Navy commercial to shake for a few seconds alongside the dozens of real models that they hired.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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My real problem there was that they even had Doomsday in that movie to begin with. Let Batman vs Superman stand on it's own. And I don't think having the whole "Bucky killed my mom" was great for Civil War either.
Snyder got so horned out at the idea of having Batman and Superman in a movie that he threw in Wonder Woman and then Doomsday, then Lex, then he realized, oh shit we need a story, ah f*** it.

Just like you ignoring IM3, I choose to ignore Man of Steel, JL, BvS, and Green Lantern.

Wonder Woman & Aquaman are watchable, hopefully Shazam, Joker, and the rest continue the trend.
 
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Ogrezilla

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I think the over saturation issue is with a lot of the Marvel characters, I think we've all just seen so much of them and seen them all go about as far as we'd like them to go or can stomach, with their character arc's. I mean, how much more do you want to see these guys before they all just go the way of Stark/Thor/Starlord and all turn into sarcastic wise asses.
I want to see them focus on a different group going forward. It's definitely time. Steve and Tony's story should end with Infinity War 2.
Into The Spider-Verse is probably the best written thing Marvel has done in over a decade. A movie with Spider-Ham.
I really need to see that.
At this point, the only "world" I want to see explored more is the one in John Wick. I am actually pretty pumped about the tv show and whatever other sequels they come up with, as long as they keep doing it the proper way they are doing it - with actual work put into a good script.
I love John Wick. I hope they handle that show well.
 
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LOGiK

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One of the big pitfalls of trying to increase representation in such a lazy way is that it sends a subtle but insidious message that there's nothing for that group to be proud of. It's kind of like how you'll see these insane Afrocentrists who argue that Mozart was black or that most of the Egyptian pharaohs were black. Why not teach a little black kid about Mansa Musa and how much of a badass he was? The richest man in history was a sub-Saharan African. Surely that will inspire more people than lying to them and waiting until they inevitably realize that Ramesses II was a ginger, Cleopatra was Greek and swarthy isn't a synonym for black.

That's also a really good point about people of mixed ethnicity having even less representation because of how reluctant anybody seems to be to acknowledge that they don't have to fit in one simple category. I'm sure that a lot of it stems from the cultural impact of the one drop rule, but it's really taken on a life of its own with the way we've circled back around to identity politics being the big thing. The problem is that identity politics involve groups of people, but one's own identity should never be subject to the opinion of anybody but themselves.

I thought Pablo Escobar was the richest man ever? Dood made like 100 million dollars a day. Straight skrilla too, not that credit nonsense or stock market estimations.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
One of the big pitfalls of trying to increase representation in such a lazy way is that it sends a subtle but insidious message that there's nothing for that group to be proud of. It's kind of like how you'll see these insane Afrocentrists who argue that Mozart was black or that most of the Egyptian pharaohs were black. Why not teach a little black kid about Mansa Musa and how much of a badass he was? The richest man in history was a sub-Saharan African. Surely that will inspire more people than lying to them and waiting until they inevitably realize that Ramesses II was a ginger, Cleopatra was Greek and swarthy isn't a synonym for black.

That's also a really good point about people of mixed ethnicity having even less representation because of how reluctant anybody seems to be to acknowledge that they don't have to fit in one simple category. I'm sure that a lot of it stems from the cultural impact of the one drop rule, but it's really taken on a life of its own with the way we've circled back around to identity politics being the big thing. The problem is that identity politics involve groups of people, but one's own identity should never be subject to the opinion of anybody but themselves.

It's really hard to tell how much of this nonsense is well intentioned but misguided and how much of this is deliberately meant to undermine and antagonize people. I want more characters of every physical description, but they need to be authentic. It's the difference between writing an interesting play about the plight of a fat girl who comes from a family of fat women and is trying to break the cycle versus sticking one 200+ pound woman in an Old Navy commercial to shake for a few seconds alongside the dozens of real models that they hired.

Reminds me of a Bill Burr joke...
Bill Burr's Definition of Bravery Bill Burr's Definition of Bravery
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
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I thought Pablo Escobar was the richest man ever? Dood made like 100 million dollars a day. Straight skrilla too, not that credit nonsense or stock market estimations.

There's no definitive figure to how much Pablo Escobar made, I mean there's probably still stashes of his money buried somewhere, likely money that was destroyed because of how it was buried and no one will ever find it or be able to use it, etc.


When adjusted for inflation, Mansa Musa's wealth is believed to have been around $400 billion. The only person who comes close to Musa's wealth is John D. Rockefeller, whom economists believe amassed a worth of around $336 billion.
Meet Mansa Musa, The Richest Person In History

The guy had so much gold that he randomly gave away, he actually made the value of gold go down and f***ed up the economy. That's rich.
 

Brandinho

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I thought Pablo Escobar was the richest man ever? Dood made like 100 million dollars a day. Straight skrilla too, not that credit nonsense or stock market estimations.

Mansa Musa was so rich that nobody can even accurately estimate the extent of his wealth. When Musa took the Hajj, he passed through Egypt on his way to Mecca. His gifts of gold to the ordinary people caused the value of metal to depreciate so much that it created a financial crisis that took over a decade to fix. Pablo Escobar really can't compare to a guy who ruled an empire that stretched for 2,000 miles.
 
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LOGiK

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Reminds me of a Bill Burr joke...
Bill Burr's Definition of Bravery Bill Burr's Definition of Bravery

Got daymm I love Bill Burr. I thought of him two times the other day. Once when I got offered a cookie with my meal and the other time when I was at the grocer and there was 1 lane with 10 people waiting -OR- the self checkouts, and I thought, 'mother f***er... I don't work here, yet I have to scan all this shit or wait 30 minutes for him to do it?!' I just wanted to walk out with my stuff since nobody worked there.

Hilarious guy.
 
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Ogrezilla

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Snyder got so horned out at the idea of having Batman and Superman in a movie that he threw in Wonder Woman and then Doomsday, then Lex, then he realized, oh **** we need a story, ah **** it.

Just like you ignoring IM3, I choose to ignore Man of Steel, JL, BvS, and Green Lantern.
The DC issues all just reek of studio interference. I still don't think Snyder is a good choice of director, but even he is better than that. But you can tell they just had a check box of things they wanted to have happen, and then went backwards to make the movies. They just completely ignored the Batman character they created in BvS when they made JL.
Wonder Woman & Aquaman are watchable, hopefully Shazam, Joker, and the rest continue the trend.
As you've mentioned before, those are the two where the director was allowed to make the movie they wanted. And I would be surprised if there wasn't still some studio meddling in the ending of WW. Here's hoping they can figure out why these ones are better than the others.
 
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LOGiK

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Mansa Musa was so rich that nobody can even accurately estimate the extent of his wealth. When Musa took the Hajj, he passed through Egypt on his way to Mecca. His gifts of gold to the ordinary people caused the value of metal to depreciate so much that it created a financial crisis that took over a decade to fix. Pablo Escobar really can't compare to a guy who ruled an empire that stretched for 2,000 miles.
Oh. I'll look into this musa cat. To be fair, Pablo ruled over way more than 2,000 miles. It may have been ruling the seedy underworld, but you don't make 100 million a day (by 1970's-80's standards, would be billions today) without controlling almost everything.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
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yeah I hate that too. I don't have a problem with Idris Elba playing someone like Heimdall because it really doesn't matter what race he is

Well, if you're going to have Sif, his sister, you might want to have some continuity there you know? Or just not mention the relation at all like they did in the movies to avoid all questions about it.


but I don't really see how going out of your way to change the race of a character is better than making a new character most of the time. Same with things like Oceans 8 or the new Ghostbusters. Just make new movies with those same casts and basic characters. I remember people wanting Netflix/Marvel to cast an asian guy to play Iron Fist. At that point you aren't making Iron Fist. Being an outsider in both worlds is kind of the point.
That was my issue with it as well, if they want to make a Ghostbusters movie or an Oceans 8 movie, do it in a way that is more fresh and original than the source material you are literally copying and just making female versions of the same character. They could have made both of those movies in a way that didn't just flat out rip off previous characters and turn them into terrible versions that were female.

Iron Fist, I mean, the people whining about it didn't even know what the actual race of the character was in the damn comic book. They just wanted it so badly because it dealt with martial arts, which ok cool, I get that it's a huge thing in Asia to see that portrayed in such a way, but its about a show based on a fictional character in a comic book, pick your battles.

The things I hate are these tag lines for Black Panther or Crazy Rich Asians, about most money made by an all black cast, all asian cast, etc...how about just focusing on making a good movie, because Black Panther isn't a good movie, it's not even a top 5 movie in the Marvel universe that its a part of right now with the movies.

I haven't seen CRA, but my gf liked it a lot, I opted to not see the movie because my dumb ass thought it was some lame rip off of Coming to America.
 
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LOGiK

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Well, if you're going to have Sif, his sister, you might want to have some continuity there you know? Or just not mention the relation at all like they did in the movies to avoid all questions about it.



That was my issue with it as well, if they want to make a Ghostbusters movie or an Oceans 8 movie, do it in a way that is more fresh and original than the source material you are literally copying and just making female versions of the same character. They could have made both of those movies in a way that didn't just flat out rip off previous characters and turn them into terrible versions that were female.

Iron Fist, I mean, the people whining about it didn't even know what the actual race of the character was in the damn comic book. They just wanted it so badly because it dealt with martial arts, which ok cool, I get that it's a huge thing in Asia to see that portrayed in such a way, but its about a show based on a fictional character in a comic book, pick your battles.

The things I hate are these tag lines for Black Panther or Crazy Rich Asians, about most money made by an all black cast, all asian cast, etc...how about just focusing on making a good movie, because Black Panther isn't a good movie, it's not even a top 5 movie in the Marvel universe that its a part of right now with the movies.

I haven't seen CRA, but my gf liked it a lot, I opted to not see the movie because my dumb ass thought it was some lame rip off of Coming to America.

I have the most amazing thing I want to write here, but I'm not going to since this is exactly how I got in trouble last time... damn.
 

Brandinho

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Oh. I'll look into this musa cat. To be fair, Pablo ruled over way more than 2,000 miles. It may have been ruling the seedy underworld, but you don't make 100 million a day (by 1970's-80's standards, would be billions today) without controlling almost everything.

Escobar couldn't even maintain his hold on Colombia, a tiny island where he was beloved by the people. I think you're really overestimating his power, even though he did make a ton of money. Nobody could have touched Mansa Musa. He single-handedly controlled the gold market at a time when gold was in greater demand than cocaine. He conquered 24 cities. Just look at this magnificent bastard:

king-e1422996844217.jpg


That coin is worth as much as Medellin.
 
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LOGiK

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Escobar couldn't even maintain his hold on Colombia, a tiny island where he was beloved by the people. I think you're really overestimating his power, even though he did make a ton of money. Nobody could have touched Mansa Musa. He single-handedly controlled the gold market at a time where gold was in greater demand than cocaine. He conquered 24 cities. Just look at this magnificent bastard:

king-e1422996844217.jpg


That coin is worth as much as Medellin.

Yeah, I donno, just saying. I never met either of them.
Hey, thinking about it, my name means gold in polish. Maybe I was royalty and someone crapped it away or killed off. Who knows, but you don't get named after gold because you suck. Thats my take of it at least.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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The DC issues all just reek of studio interference. I still don't think Snyder is a good choice of director, but even he is better than that. But you can tell they just had a check box of things they wanted to have happen, and then went backwards to make the movies. They just completely ignored the Batman character they created in BvS when they made JL.

As you've mentioned before, those are the two where the director was allowed to make the movie they wanted. And I would be surprised if there wasn't still some studio meddling in the ending of WW. Here's hoping they can figure out why these ones are better than the others.

There was some meddling in WW, but with the numbers Aquaman is pulling and what WW pulled in, they're letting the directors actually do what they were hired to do.

Studio interference isn't even the right word, it was more Studio Controlling and Editing their movies. Suicide Squad was so heavily edited by the Studio, the director didn't even know what happened to most of the scenes he shot and the tone was changed. WB f***ed themselves harder than the critics and the critics took them to task HARD.

Snyder had a good idea, he just needed someone to evolve it because he clearly wasn't able to take on multiple characters - Which was insanely evident in Watchmen from the get go and even 300.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Has anyone seen the Black Mirror: Bandersnatch movie yet?

I just love that they totally took that platform and made it interactive, I mean there is a "clear" ending for it, but taking the story of the Bandersnatch within the movie and applying it in that way was really cool. I love Black Mirror so I am definitely biased, but man, the stuff they come up with and pulling from reality of the world right now, top notch stuff.
 

LOGiK

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Has anyone seen the Black Mirror: Bandersnatch movie yet?

I just love that they totally took that platform and made it interactive, I mean there is a "clear" ending for it, but taking the story of the Bandersnatch within the movie and applying it in that way was really cool. I love Black Mirror so I am definitely biased, but man, the stuff they come up with and pulling from reality of the world right now, top notch stuff.

Saw it. I donno. I don't like having to pick choices I dont want on subsequent play throughs I also dont want to do, just to see what I should have picked to get the real ending.
I think the netflix ending was the best, btw.

Watching the good place now, actually a good show yet I hate that kristen bell for some reason. Maybe its the exaggerated introversion.
 

Ogrezilla

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The things I hate are these tag lines for Black Panther or Crazy Rich Asians, about most money made by an all black cast, all asian cast, etc...how about just focusing on making a good movie, because Black Panther isn't a good movie, it's not even a top 5 movie in the Marvel universe that its a part of right now with the movies.
I disagree that Black Panther wasn't a good movie. It's not as good as people treated it imo, but it was good. I'll agree not top 5 in the Marvel universe though.
I haven't seen CRA, but my gf liked it a lot, I opted to not see the movie because my dumb ass thought it was some lame rip off of Coming to America.
Yeah I've heard it's a solid movie.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
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Saw it. I donno. I don't like having to pick choices I dont want on subsequent play throughs I also dont want to do, just to see what I should have picked to get the real ending.
I think the netflix ending was the best, btw.

Watching the good place now, actually a good show yet I hate that kristen bell for some reason. Maybe its the exaggerated introversion.
I watched that show too, haven't watched the current new season, but her character is a terrible person trying to be a better person, she was great at being an evil person in House of Lies, but she's good in rom-com's as not an annoying character you want to hate.
 

Ogrezilla

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Snyder had a good idea, he just needed someone to evolve it because he clearly wasn't able to take on multiple characters - Which was insanely evident in Watchmen from the get go and even 300.
He was good with 300 IMO (note: I haven't read the comic) because it was such a visual story and he did that well. But now he just keeps doing that same thing regardless of the story or the characters. Watchmen LOOKED great, and it's not an awful movie, but it really really missed the point of the comic.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
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I disagree that Black Panther wasn't a good movie. It's not as good as people treated it imo, but it was good. I'll agree not top 5 in the Marvel universe though.

Yeah I've heard it's a solid movie.

Not good was extreme on my part, they just flat out killed 2 very good villains when they didn't need to.

Killmonger was a fantastic villain and so was Klaue.

He was good with 300 IMO (note: I haven't read the comic) because it was such a visual story and he did that well. But now he just keeps doing that same thing regardless of the story or the characters. Watchmen LOOKED great, and it's not an awful movie, but it really really missed the point of the comic.
That's his thing, make things look good, but then fail you with actual content.

Remember, Sucker Punch was so hyped because of the trailer and the visuals, then you saw the movie and it was terrible.
 
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Ogrezilla

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Has anyone seen the Black Mirror: Bandersnatch movie yet?

I just love that they totally took that platform and made it interactive, I mean there is a "clear" ending for it, but taking the story of the Bandersnatch within the movie and applying it in that way was really cool. I love Black Mirror so I am definitely biased, but man, the stuff they come up with and pulling from reality of the world right now, top notch stuff.
I want to see it, but I haven't ever watched the show. I know they are individual stories, but should I start from the beginning?
 
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