Most successful captain of the modern era

[bobholly39]

lol this is the same OP who tried to pass off Ovechkin as the best captain ever because his team had the most games won over the past 4 years at a certain point in time. Of course when you pointed out that if you looked at 5 seasons instead of 4 that this no longer held up - he didn't have a response. Here's the thread - good comic relief:

Dominant NHL "C" - Ovechkin

The most successful captain is Sidney Crosby. 3 cups, 4 finals, olympic gold, world cup, playoffs each year, etc.

 

[southernbeardown54]

Actually winning presidents trophies without cups means your captain is kinda doing a bad job.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't think you can equate Stanley Cup with Presidents Trophy.

Either way, in terms of team success, it's Jonathan Toews.

How can you even possibly argue that Toews has had more success than Crosby as a captain?

Crosby asked Toews for his permission to captain team Canada.

It's Toews

Good joke.

 

[ColbyChaos]

How can you even possibly argue that Toews has had more success than Crosby as a captain?



Good joke.

Considering it actually happened the only joke is your attempts at swiping it under the rug. There is a reason even the recent Canadian olympic team reached out to Toews and not Sid. Meanwhile everyone knew if Sid wasnt named captain in 2014 it would be a bad look for him despite Sid being fresh off tantrum meltdowns to Boston and Philly the prior seasons and losing all forms of credibility as a leader. International tournaments are almost all about just naming the best player as captain.

 

[LDF]

How can you even possibly argue that Toews has had more success than Crosby as a captain?



Good joke.

b/c each is their way provided differently than the other player.

plus Crosby was project to be a superstar which he became. Toews provide a different kind of leadership.

 

[bobholly39]

How can you even possibly argue that Toews has had more success than Crosby as a captain?

I mean to me it's 50/50. I pick Crosby because of international success and such but it's not like you can't argue Toews. It's close.

You make it sound like it's unspeakable to suggest Toews > Crosby as a captain. I think that's an extreme view

 

[Machinehead]

How can you even possibly argue that Toews has had more success than Crosby as a captain?

Just as many Cups in a shorter time, better regular season performance. It's marginal, but he's ahead of Crosby in the NHL.

If you want to take international hockey into account, that's your prerogative, but being captain of Team Canada isn't exactly an inspiring tale of leadership. They're supposed to win every tournament.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

Funny about this thread.. I am a big Sid fan and even bigger Pens fan.

But I think I look at it this way, Sid is one of the all time greats and IMO it is way easier to lead a team when you are so much better then the players on your team. Even as good as Geno is Sid is the better player and better career

Toews on the other hand, and I freaking hate his punchable face, has lead his team and he has always had two other players (Kane and Keith) who I think are better then him, but he is their leader, there has never been any question to that, I think leading when your not the best player in the world is a lot harder to do. I still would like to see his face punched though.

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

How can you even possibly argue that Toews has had more success than Crosby as a captain?



Good joke.

Yeah this makes no sense. They have just as many Cups and Crosby has way more hardware. Of the two captains, Crosby has therefore had more success. Pretty black and white.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean to me it's 50/50. I pick Crosby because of international success and such but it's not like you can't argue Toews. It's close.

You make it sound like it's unspeakable to suggest Toews > Crosby as a captain. I think that's an extreme view

There is literally nothing that puts Toews above Crsoby, so yes, it does seem unthinkable. Toews doesn't have more cups, more cup appearances, more playoff appearances,

Just as many Cups in a shorter time, better regular season performance. It's marginal, but he's ahead of Crosby in the NHL.

If you want to take international hockey into account, that's your prerogative, but being captain of Team Canada isn't exactly an inspiring tale of leadership. They're supposed to win every tournament.

If you're talking about team success, that's not even true. If you're not talking about team success, I genuinely have no clue what you're talking about.

Since the 2008-2009 season (the first season that the Hawks were good with Toews), the Penguins have 28 more regular season wins than the Hawks and 6 more playoff wins, and that's with taking out the Penguins first cup run in 2007-2008. They've made the playoffs in each of those 12 seasons, the Hawks have missed in 2 of those years.

 

[bobholly39]

There is literally nothing that puts Toews above Crsoby, so yes, it does seem unthinkable. Toews doesn't have more cups, more cup appearances, more playoff appearances,

A lot of what being a captain is intangibles that no one even sees. From the outside - we only ever get a sense, and do a lot of assuming.

Team results - 3 cups to 3 cups. It's tied. Crosby has 1 more final and no playoff misses - whereas Toews has captained his teams to president trophies. TBH none of the extra matters much to me, 3 cups = 3 cups, the rest can cancel each other out as it's not as important. Crosby has been captain on international teams, and that of course counts.

But the whole intangible is what you don't see. Considering their team success is so close - it's very plausible to suggest Toews could be a better captain.

To be clear i'm not saying i believe he is - i'm just surprised by your completely refuting the possibility. It's close enough that you could argue either way.

 

[Telos]

President's trophies are meh. The answer for the LA Kings box at least is Dustin Brown though. The answer to your overall question is likely Crosby.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A lot of what being a captain is intangibles that no one even sees. From the outside - we only ever get a sense, and do a lot of assuming.

Team results - 3 cups to 3 cups. It's tied. Crosby has 1 more final and no playoff misses - whereas Toews has captained his teams to president trophies. TBH none of the extra matters much to me, 3 cups = 3 cups, the rest can cancel each other out as it's not as important. Crosby has been captain on international teams, and that of course counts.

But the whole intangible is what you don't see. Considering their team success is so close - it's very plausible to suggest Toews could be a better captain.

To be clear i'm not saying i believe he is - i'm just surprised by your completely refuting the possibility. It's close enough that you could argue either way.

So Toews is the better captain for reasons that no one can say? It seems really clear to me. The Penguins have had the better team since the Hawks became good in 2008-2009, both in terms of regular season results (averages about 2 more wins and 3 more points per season) and playoff results (more wins and more playoff appearances with the same amount of cups). There's just nothing there that suggests Toews be above Crosby, and that's looking at a sample size that doesn't include the Penguins first cup run.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Yeah this makes no sense. They have just as many Cups and Crosby has way more hardware. Of the two captains, Crosby has therefore had more success. Pretty black and white.

Better player =/= Better leader would you say McDavid was one of the best captains in the league in 2017 because he won the Art Ross? Ovi was seen as a bad leader despite personal hardware, as was Thornton. There is a reason Sid asked for his blessing to be captain of Canada in 2014, one was just fresh off a presidents trophy and a cup while the other was throwing a temper tantrum in the ECF. Even the recent Canadian olympic team chose to talk to Toews over Sid. When it comes to international tournaments pretty much every team just names their best player even if he isnt the best person in the room.

There is literally nothing that puts Toews above Crsoby, so yes, it does seem unthinkable. Toews doesn't have more cups, more cup appearances, more playoff appearances,



If you're talking about team success, that's not even true. If you're not talking about team success, I genuinely have no clue what you're talking about.

There are you are just ignoring it since it goes against your viewpoint. Crosby had to be named captain when despite his leadership abilities being heavily questioned after he embarassed himself in the playoffs two years in a row entering into Sochi. Team success is also true more cups in a shorter time, never being pointless in a playoff series, winning the cup when the most pressure possible is on you due to the presidents trophy expectations that almost every team crumbles under.

 

[bobholly39]

So Toews is the better captain for reasons that no one can say? It seems really clear to me. The Penguins have had the better team since the Hawks became good in 2008-2009, both in terms of regular season results (averages about 2 more wins and 3 more points per season) and playoff results (more wins and more playoff appearances with the same amount of cups). There's just nothing there that suggests Toews be above Crosby, and that's looking at a sample size that doesn't include the Penguins first cup run.

You make it sound like there's some advanced stat/metric that ties the # of points to captain efficiency lol.

It's very plausible to suggest that certain captains in the NHL who have never won a single cup are better than either Crosby or Toews. Being a strong captain helps with team success but it's not a direct effect and certainly nowhere near the only criteria.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Leadership to Pokemonboy

This was the guy team Canada named captain in 2014







Sidney Crosby Cursing like a Sailor

Sidney Crosby's Heart Will Go On

Biggest whiner on the ice per the ESPN players poll (got 52% of the votes)

No wonder he had to ask for permission from Toews to be the Captain of Canada he was a joke of a leader back then. Toews, Ovi, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Selanne, Getzlaf, Lundqvist and tons of other players called him out on his diving antics over the years for a reason. He was not a great leader on the ice at all back then him being named captain of Canada in 2014 was more narrative driven than anything else.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Crosby remember he willed the win in 2016 to earn his conn smythe

Greatest 21 goal / 65 point pace as a minus player ever.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Anyway, equating team success to captain success is arbitrary.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I'll go with Crosby. He was named Captain in 2007, and since then his team has not missed the playoffs for 13 straight seasons.

Indeed Crosby's leadership is so amazing that the Penguins had their best goal differential when Crosby didn't even play 75% of the games.

You guys just can't even fathom the generational cheerleading skills that requires.

 

[SotasicA]

Denis Potvin.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

All say it again;

Crosby asked Toews for permission to captain team Canada. It was reported thru out the media. If Sidney went that far for acceptance then you have the answer to this question by Sidney himself.

Toews-" yes, son"

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

Better player =/= Better leader would you say McDavid was one of the best captains in the league in 2017 because he won the Art Ross? Ovi was seen as a bad leader despite personal hardware, as was Thornton. There is a reason Sid asked for his blessing to be captain of Canada in 2014, one was just fresh off a presidents trophy and a cup while the other was throwing a temper tantrum in the ECF. Even the recent Canadian olympic team chose to talk to Toews over Sid. When it comes to international tournaments pretty much every team just names their best player even if he isnt the best person in the room.



There are you are just ignoring it since it goes against your viewpoint. Crosby had to be named captain when despite his leadership abilities being heavily questioned after he embarassed himself in the playoffs two years in a row entering into Sochi. Team success is also true more cups in a shorter time, never being pointless in a playoff series, winning the cup when the most pressure possible is on you due to the presidents trophy expectations that almost every team crumbles under.

The question is who’s had the most success, not who the best leader is. The former can be based off of facts, and is Crosby. The latter is pure conjecture and none of us can answer this.

 

[ColbyChaos]

The question is who’s had the most success, not who the best leader is. The former can be based off of facts, and is Crosby. The latter is pure conjecture and none of us can answer this.

Most Success then would be 3 cups and a presidents trophy then... Sid doesnt get points for losing in the finals while having mental break downs. Him being named captain of Canada was as media driven as can be.

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

Most Success then would be 3 cups and a presidents trophy then... Sid doesnt get points for losing in the finals while having mental break downs. Him being named captain of Canada was as media driven as can be.

The Pens lost in the finals to a really good Detroit Red Wings team and have won every final they’ve been to since. Calling that a mental breakdown and then ignoring all of the hardware Crosby has won, as well as the thirteen straight playoff appearances when discussing which captain has had the most success makes you sound clearly biased and not genuinely open to the discussion.

 

[Clatartar]

Captain intangibles being to how to be... intangible.