Most Overrated Prospects

[Sammy*]

Ranking prospects isn't just about comparing numbers, it's about projecting into the future. I don't care that Milan Michalek was injured for this entire season, he's a top 10 prospect regardless.

Difference is Michaleks injury didnt almost cause him to die & in the context of playing hockey in the future , was signifigantly less severe.

 

[Epsilon]

Well the fact that he didnt play last year, and is pointless so far this year, should(and hopefully will) be factored into the rankings this year.

Has anyone implied that he's going to rank top 10 this year? Because I don't see any indication that's the case.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I do think he was a good pick.

And I always, always love your opinion Vlad, because mostly I find they are accurate and pretty damn good.

 

[Chaos]

Has anyone implied that he's going to rank top 10 this year? Because I don't see any indication that's the case.

Im saying he's overrated because he somehow managed to get to #7 last year.

 

[King'sPawn]

Which is the main reason a lot of people are taking cheap shots at him.

I usually like a lot of what you say, Epsilon, but remarks like this truly ruin the spirit of threads such as this one. It detracts from the discussion as to why prospect X is underrated/overrated.

Instead of focusing on defenses which appear indignant, just counter the points like you politely educated me last night. That's what these boards are about: discussion and education.

Anyhow, onto the sake of discussion, where do you see Grigorenko, overall? Top 10? Top 25? 50? 100? Do you think his injury and his performance so far should have a big impact on where he's rated?

Maybe this thread would be better served if we waited till the top 50 comes out. I'm sure we'll be revisiting this thread (or, as usual, just creating a new thread with the exact same question).

 

[Epsilon]

I usually like a lot of what you say, Epsilon, but remarks like this truly ruin the spirit of threads such as this one. It detracts from the discussion as to why prospect X is underrated/overrated.

Instead of focusing on defenses which appear indignant, just counter the points like you politely educated me last night. That's what these boards are about: discussion and education.

Anyhow, onto the sake of discussion, where do you see Grigorenko, overall? Top 10? Top 25? 50? 100? Do you think his injury and his performance so far should have a big impact on where he's rated?

Maybe this thread would be better served if we waited till the top 50 comes out. I'm sure we'll be revisiting this thread (or, as usual, just creating a new thread with the exact same question).

That comment wasn't actually referring to you, but to the people who will immediately claim that any Wings prospect looked at favorably is because the Wings picked him, like Chaos did immediately upon entering this thread. The truth, much as some of the Wings bashers might hate to admit it, is that no one was calling Grigorenko a steal when the Wings drafted him, nor did he get any extra attention because they are the ones who picked him. He burst onto the scene in North America by coming over to Canada and owning every player on every other team during the WJCs; he was pretty much unstoppable during that tournament. Then he finished 2nd in the RSL in goals, a remarkable number for a player his age. That's why he started getting press.

I also love how MacIssac declares Grigorenko "undersized" at 5'10 200+ lbs, then complains whenever anyone says the same thing about Parise.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

That comment wasn't actually referring to you, but to the people who will immediately claim that any Wings prospect looked at favorably is because the Wings picked him, like Chaos did immediately upon entering this thread. The truth, much as some of the Wings bashers might hate to admit it, is that no one was calling Grigorenko a steal when the Wings drafted him, nor did he get any extra attention because they are the ones who picked him. He burst onto the scene in North America by coming over to Canada and owning every player on every other team during the WJCs; he was pretty much unstoppable during that tournament. Then he finished 2nd in the RSL in goals, a remarkable number for a player his age. That's why he started getting press.

I also love how MacIssac declares Grigorenko "undersized" at 5'10 200+ lbs, then complains whenever anyone says the same thing about Parise.

I never once said Parise wasn't undersized. I know he is small but atleast he is staying productive at the moment which Grig isn't. Size is only a liability if you let it be a liability.

 

[leafaholix*]

Ouch Leafs, Burns? WTF? No one thinks this kid was worth the pick but, as we all know, WE AREN'T COACHES OR OWNERS OR TALENT SCOUTS that see things in players that we don't see.

Burns has already had 7 shots and 1 goal in the AHL in two games. That's pretty good. He wasn't shooting as much as a forward and I hope that those shots will be turned into assists and goals but the main thing is, he's at least shooting the puck and trying to score or create an opprotunity.

If Burns is overrated I think Carlo is too.

From the times I've seen him play (few times in NHL and during the WJC) he hasn't done a thing to impress. And the main difference between my opinion and yours is that I've seen Brent Burns play more than you've seen Colaiacovo. You're just taking a shot at a Leaf prospect because I said Brent Burns is overrated.

 

[leafaholix*]

That was before the accident. Injuries affected his play and skills, which should drop him a large amount. Right now he is an undersized 21 year old who according to hockeydb has 0 points in his first 11 games with an undicipline 31 PIM in that period.

He was "undersized" when he scored 29 points at age 19. Grigorenko hasn't played in over a year, he's adjusting and it'll probably take some time before he's back to his old self.

And 5'10, 200+ pounds isn't exactly "undersized".

 

[Rabid Ranger]

It looks like many people are forgetting the idea that just because a prospect is "overrated", that doesn't mean he won't be good. The one thing I've learned in this folder is no one is capable of being truly objective about their own team's prospects, and lack the insight to comment with authority about most if not all other team's prospects. That's why I take most comments with a grain of salt and rely on PROFESSIONAL SCOUTS to get an accurate rendering of a player's potential. Instead of trying to determine what individual player is overrated, I would be more interested in getting everyone's take on what type of player is most prone to being overrated. IMO it's those "average" size snipers like, well every team has them, and who are all projected to be Bure clones. Do we realize how few really turn out?

 

[King'sPawn]

That comment wasn't actually referring to you, but to the people who will immediately claim that any Wings prospect looked at favorably is because the Wings picked him, like Chaos did immediately upon entering this thread.

Oh, I know it wasn't in reference to me I was saying you don't need to stoop to the level of "He's a prospect of *insert team here*, so obviously people will (take cheap shots at, praise) him." You make good points just by sticking to the topic, like when you corrected me about why Grigorenko was touted highly before the accident. That's all I was saying.

And I agree, 5'10, 200 is not undersized.

 

[borro]

Oh, I know it wasn't in reference to me I was saying you don't need to stoop to the level of "He's a prospect of *insert team here*, so obviously people will (take cheap shots at, praise) him." You make good points just by sticking to the topic, like when you corrected me about why Grigorenko was touted highly before the accident. That's all I was saying.

And I agree, 5'10, 200 is not undersized.

Some observations...

Carlo Coaiacovo is not overrated. He controlled play against the Pirates whenever he was on the ice. I listened to 2 games and you could tell he was a really good player. AHL is not the NHl, but I heard NOTHING to validate such a claim.

Beech on the other hand has pretty much proven himself soft year after year. He may still make a third line player but will never be a key piece.

On the other hand, please show me anything that indicates Whitney will be a disappointment. All his stats seem to show he is on track and a possible #1 dman. I would snap Whitney or Colaiacovo up in a heartbeat!

It helps if you give reasons why a guy will fail. I think a good general rule is a Top5 pick should play for you first year. a 6-20 should take ~1 year to contribute. A 21-40 should take 2-3 years. a 41-60 3 or more years. Add 1 year for a defender nd 3 for a goalie. That should be a goal. If a guy can't play for you after a year, he may not be top20 material. Style is another reason. Some guys work better in certain systems. It's not a hard and fast rule. Maybe a good guideline.

 

[Coffey77]

Oh, I know it wasn't in reference to me I was saying you don't need to stoop to the level of "He's a prospect of *insert team here*, so obviously people will (take cheap shots at, praise) him." You make good points just by sticking to the topic, like when you corrected me about why Grigorenko was touted highly before the accident. That's all I was saying.

And I agree, 5'10, 200 is not undersized.

Grigorenko isn't doing too well in Russia but it's early. It takes time for some players to recover from injury, especially as bad as his. I've heard ACL injuries can take a year to recover and that's far less serious than what happened to Igor.

Having said that, his rookie rating should drop. He may have been a top prospect but he'll have to prove again he's at that level. Until then, he shouldn't be on the top 50 prospect list.

It's starting to annoy me where a team prospects get slammed just because they belong to that team. If a Red Wing player gets a high rating some people will whine and complain they got there because of bias or homer Wing fans. Even if the survery or list was created by a predominantly non-Red Wing group or by a magazine like McKeen's or The Hockey News you will still get the "he's there because he's from Detroit". I'm sure I'm going to hear something like that if someone like Evan McGrath continues to play the way he is right now.

 

[thestonedkoala]

From the times I've seen him play (few times in NHL and during the WJC) he hasn't done a thing to impress. And the main difference between my opinion and yours is that I've seen Brent Burns play more than you've seen Colaiacovo. You're just taking a shot at a Leaf prospect because I said Brent Burns is overrated.

And yet you haven't seen him play defense, HIS NATURAL POSITION.

I was making the comment on Carlo because of you always saying people are biased against him and that both Burns and Carlo are blueliners.

How many times have you seen Burns play defense? How many times have you heard him comment about him playing RW at the end of the year?

 

[Nikk]

Must be nice to contradict everything i said yet you have no substance to your argument. Over-rated does NOT mean untalented. When i say Crosby is over rated or even Kovalchuck is over rated...that is not me saying "That player is an untalented player", i'm saying theres a big buzz around the guy when there's no reason for it. (NO i don't think Corsby is over rated i was making a point). Lots of people are saying that Talbot has a real future, and have been mentioning him a lot around the boards. I can't even see the guy make the NHL.

Looks like your sticking your nose and places where you're not wanted. Before you say something why don't you read back a couple of threads. I can probably pop up 50 Talbot threads praising him.

Everybody likes and dislikes certain players for their own reasons and that's OK.
I've seen Talbot play juniors for a couple of years and perhaps he does not have the talent of Crosby but what he has with his own talent like his drive, his determination to win, appearing at 100% every game, and his excellent leadership skills. He is also well known for his penalty killing skills. He can also play both sides of the ice. That is why he should be playing in the future in the NHL, for the whole package he has to offer any NHL team.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

He was "undersized" when he scored 29 points at age 19. Grigorenko hasn't played in over a year, he's adjusting and it'll probably take some time before he's back to his old self.

And 5'10, 200+ pounds isn't exactly "undersized".

An unhonest 5`10 isn't exactly that big either. I am not debating that Grigorenko wasn't a great prospect. I seen him with my own eyes in Sydney. He was great. Untill he regains that form I don't think he merits the attention that he gets as a prospect.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I cant see how Getzlaf, Koivu and Leclaire are overated... Most of poeples think they will be bust!!!

Wow, obviously those people haven't much of Getzlaf then.

I'd take him on my team in an instant, he's a fantastic prospect.

 

[leafaholix*]

An unhonest 5`10 isn't exactly that big either. I am not debating that Grigorenko wasn't a great prospect. I seen him with my own eyes in Sydney. He was great. Untill he regains that form I don't think he merits the attention that he gets as a prospect.

What exactly is "an unhonest" 5'10?

 

[RazorRamon12]

Malkin and Komisarek are the two most overrated prospects, no doubt.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

What exactly is "an unhonest" 5'10?

maybe Burns is dishonest about his size?

 

[leafaholix*]

An unhonest 5`10 isn't exactly that big either. I am not debating that Grigorenko wasn't a great prospect. I seen him with my own eyes in Sydney. He was great. Untill he regains that form I don't think he merits the attention that he gets as a prospect.

Having seen Grigorenko and Parise just on TV during the WJC, if Igor's an "unhonest" 5'10, Parise at 5'11 is a joke.

 

[Reilly311]

size isn't an issue for a player who weighs 200 pounds

 

[Coffey77]

Wow, obviously those people haven't much of Getzlaf then.

I'd take him on my team in an instant, he's a fantastic prospect.

Me too. I don't know what some people may think of him but he looks like a pretty good prospect to me. Not the greatest but the potential to be at least a solid 2nd liner.

 

[leafaholix*]

size isn't an issue for a player who weighs 200 pounds

Unless his name is Andrei Medvedev.

 

[Epsilon]

Unless his name is Andrei Medvedev.

Damn, you beat me...