Most important position on a team

[eco's bones]

I’m 46 and can absolutely tell you as SOMEONE WHO LIVED IT AND LOVED ZUBBY (that’s what we called him) he was in no way a top d man in the league and was behind Mess, Leetchie, Gravy ,Richter etc; etc; during that post season run

You can’t talk about it if you weren’t at least 6 or 7 for Pete’s sake. There’s no way you’d remember a thing

Even 6 or 7 is a bit much to be honest. I mean I remember JFK but talking about him or his policies is another thing. You live your time but OTOH there is good reading material on JFK and there's even some good reading material on the Rangers Stanley Cup team and Barry Meisel's book 'Losing the edge' was extraordinarily good.

Zubov mainly was on the second pair with Kevin Lowe. Leetch and Beukeboom were first pair. Offensive D paired with guys who could cover for them. Lowe was a more savvy defender than Beukeboom but Beukeboom scared people. He hit really hard and he was big and fearless and he fought really well. Lowe wasn't a walk in the park either though. He had a really nasty temper when angry. The third pair was Karpotsev (R.I.P.) and Wells though in the playoffs Karpovtsev started having a bunch of issues and was replaced I think a few games into the New Jersey series by the steadier veteran Lidster. Lidster hadn't played in like three months but he was great in every game he played and Karpovtsev never saw the ice again in that playoff run until he walked out in his civvies to raise the Cup.

 

[Savant]

Which are usually......?

I mean if you look at your post lockout Cup Winners every position is represented. Fleury is the only goalie, but Kane and Toews (until he fell off) paced Chicago. Crosby and Malkin are the Penguins (Jordan Staal was a key piece for them until he was traded for cap reasons). Ovechkin (Backstrom was only a 4th overall) with the Capitals. Doughty in LA

They didn't win but Stamkos and Hedman make a difference. Matthews and Laine has been a big part of making Toronto and Winnipeg relevant.

The important thing is just getting and securing the Talent and building around that.

 

[Lone Ranger]

I mean if you look at your post lockout Cup Winners every position is represented. Fleury is the only goalie, but Kane and Toews (until he fell off) paced Chicago. Crosby and Malkin are the Penguins (Jordan Staal was a key piece for them until he was traded for cap reasons). Ovechkin (Backstrom was only a 4th overall) with the Capitals. Doughty in LA

They didn't win but Stamkos and Hedman make a difference. Matthews and Laine has been a big part of making Toronto and Winnipeg relevant.

The important thing is just getting and securing the Talent and building around that.

This is the conundrum facing teams like the Rangers who remain consistently competitive, never are among the very worst teams in the league, and have shown no interest in tanking. The trend in the NHL seems to be that you must have elite players, players typically only drafted in the top three, to win a Cup.

 

[broadwayblue]

This is the conundrum facing teams like the Rangers who remain consistently competitive, never are among the very worst teams in the league, and have shown no interest in tanking. The trend in the NHL seems to be that you must have elite players, players typically only drafted in the top three, to win a Cup.

With the salary cap and parity in the league it is very helpful to have a game breaking talent in his prime.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I mean if you look at your post lockout Cup Winners every position is represented. Fleury is the only goalie, but Kane and Toews (until he fell off) paced Chicago. Crosby and Malkin are the Penguins (Jordan Staal was a key piece for them until he was traded for cap reasons). Ovechkin (Backstrom was only a 4th overall) with the Capitals. Doughty in LA

They didn't win but Stamkos and Hedman make a difference. Matthews and Laine has been a big part of making Toronto and Winnipeg relevant.

The important thing is just getting and securing the Talent and building around that.

And building around a franchise center is best.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

This is the conundrum facing teams like the Rangers who remain consistently competitive, never are among the very worst teams in the league, and have shown no interest in tanking. The trend in the NHL seems to be that you must have elite players, players typically only drafted in the top three, to win a Cup.

The conundrum you presented is not a trend, it’s a consistent, demonstrative fact from the history of the NHL for why the Rangers don’t have a lot of cups and why other teams keep winning them with the same type of team constructions.

Even when it wasn’t the Rangers fault pre expansion draft era for the corrupt Northern talent poaching schemes, the fact remained that the dominant center is paramount.

 

[Synergy27]

Zubov mainly was on the second pair with Kevin Lowe. Leetch and Beukeboom were first pair. Offensive D paired with guys who could cover for them. Lowe was a more savvy defender than Beukeboom but Beukeboom scared people. He hit really hard and he was big and fearless and he fought really well. Lowe wasn't a walk in the park either though. He had a really nasty temper when angry.

Lowe was definitely a better defender than Beukeboom, but I think he played on the second pair for a couple of reasons:

1. Zubov needed the babysitter much more than Leetch did. Hell, Leetch was a legit defender himself despite the HOF offense - he's probably the reason I can't deal with people trying to convince others that Shattenkirk is a good defender.

2. Handedness. L/R from to to bottom.

 

[Nopuckluck]

Lowe was definitely a better defender than Beukeboom, but I think he played on the second pair for a couple of reasons:

1. Zubov needed the babysitter much more than Leetch did. Hell, Leetch was a legit defender himself despite the HOF offense - he's probably the reason I can't deal with people trying to convince others that Shattenkirk is a good defender.

2. Handedness. L/R from to to bottom.

But but but why did Zubov need babysitting? He was a top 5 defender in the NHL!

 

[eco's bones]

Lowe was definitely a better defender than Beukeboom, but I think he played on the second pair for a couple of reasons:

1. Zubov needed the babysitter much more than Leetch did. Hell, Leetch was a legit defender himself despite the HOF offense - he's probably the reason I can't deal with people trying to convince others that Shattenkirk is a good defender.

2. Handedness. L/R from to to bottom.

I agree but would add that Brian Leetch was always a target of other teams and that's why Beukeboom was his partner. There were better fighters around than Beukeboom but not that many. You were going to pay if you screwed around with Leetch. Defensively Leetch was pretty damned good--Zubov was definitely the weaker player in that area and Lowe was just an old pro who had been through all kinds of wars and won a bunch of Cups.

I'll add on something else---in that Stanley Cup run Leetch threw some hellacious hits--him and Claude Lemieux had a real war going on in the conference finals and Lemieux was a lot bigger and stronger than a horse and one of the dirtiest players ever. Leetch absolutely flattened him several times during that series. Zubov on the other hand had a lot more difficulty taking that kind of abuse--well he was also a few years younger than Leetch and also a bit skinnier. It was his first full season.

 

[Nopuckluck]

All rankings according to NHL players and GMs in a poll
Top 5 goalies all time
Brodeur 3 cups
Roy 4 cups
Hasek 1 cup
Sawchuk 4 cups
Plante 6 cups
18 total

Top 5 centers all time
Gretzky 4 cups
Lemieux 3 cups
Beliveau 10 cups
Messier 6 cups
Esposito 2 cups
25 total cups

I may be changing my mind to say centers most importantly

 

[Filthy Dangles]

View attachment 125489

If the Rangers just sucked it up for a few more years in the New Era™ before shelling out again for all the free agents, we might have been able to get that center and get the cup with the King.

I hope they finally build this time.

Lol that's machine's music.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

All rankings according to NHL players and GMs in a poll
Top 5 goalies all time
Brodeur 3 cups
Roy 4 cups
Hasek 1 cup
Sawchuk 4 cups
Plante 6 cups
18 total

Top 5 centers all time
Gretzky 4 cups
Lemieux 3 cups
Beliveau 10 cups
Messier 6 cups
Esposito 2 cups
25 total cups

I may be changing my mind to say centers most importantly

Hasek GOAT but still couldn't make the Sabres win. '99 Sabres were probably out in 1 round or a miss without him. Sadly, goalies can be literal hockey gods and still not win it all.

Another reason I think that it's a center is because they are going to be up and down the ice and in all areas at some point or another more than wingers. You have a good center and it makes it possession hell for opposition-see CrosbyxBergeron

 

[Mikos87]

1. Dynamic Center with Size
2. Dynamic Playmaking Center
3. Real Deal Goalie
4. Offensive D-Man with PP Ability
5. Shutdown D-Man
6. Power Forward
7. Checking Line Player

You can build around that core.

1. Dynamic Center with Size- Zibs (B)
2. Dynamic Playmaking Center- None (maybe Chytil soon)
3. Real Deal Goalie- Hank (A)
4. Offensive D-Man with PP Ability- Shattenkirik (B+)
5. Shutdown D-Man- None
6. Power Forward- Kreider (B+)
7. Checking Line Player- None

And they all have to be good at what they do. If you have a bunch of A-Grades in there... then you have a good core. Even missing 1... is missing a primary minute eater by their role on a team.

 

[Machinehead]

1. Dynamic Center with Size
2. Dynamic Playmaking Center
3. Real Deal Goalie
4. Offensive D-Man with PP Ability
5. Shutdown D-Man
6. Power Forward
7. Checking Line Player

You can build around that core.

1. Dynamic Center with Size- Zibs (B)
2. Dynamic Playmaking Center- None (maybe Chytil soon)
3. Real Deal Goalie- Hank (A)
4. Offensive D-Man with PP Ability- Shattenkirik (B+)
5. Shutdown D-Man- None
6. Power Forward- Kreider (B+)
7. Checking Line Player- None

And they all have to be good at what they do. If you have a bunch of A-Grades in there... then you have a good core. Even missing 1... is missing a primary minute eater by their role on a team.

Fast definitely checks off #7