Proposal: Morgan Rielly+Kapanen+1st for McDonagh

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cwede

Registered User
Sep 1, 2010
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Due to age and contract, Rielly has more value than Mcd currently.

If you say so
As NYR fan, i don't want McD going anywhere anyway

But jeez is the Cap situation in 3 years always more important than having a much better team?

Easily saying no to a 28 minute per game #1 D begs the question what are you rooting for, playing for, this year ...

Not making this about you in particular,
I just see that argument here @HFB so often

And sooner than many expected, the Leafs are already on the brink of truly contending.
Seems to me, Add McD, all your D get slotted down a spot and the D, an area of concern, is deeper and better

Anyway McD isn't moving.

But really happy for my Leafs fan friends, who have their most exciting and competive squad in quite a while
 

Dustin

Registered User
Sep 24, 2014
5,001
1,346
Correct, I meant from Toronto's perspective.

Just wanted to make sure. Too often in these threads the most common reply is bashing the other player. I really like what McDonagh has done so far in his career but it's just not worth messing up our cap situation and giving up on Rielly just to get better for the next couple of years, hopefully.
 

LoovTrain

Stanley... Come Home
May 6, 2015
636
143
Toronto
If you say so
As NYR fan, i don't want McD going anywhere anyway

But jeez is the Cap situation in 3 years always more important than having a much better team?

Easily saying no to a 28 minute per game #1 D begs the question what are you rooting for, playing for, this year ...

Not making this about you in particular,
I just see that argument here @HFB so often

And sooner than many expected, the Leafs are already on the brink of truly contending.
Seems to me, Add McD, all your D get slotted down a spot and the D, an area of concern, is deeper and better

Anyway McD isn't moving.

But really happy for my Leafs fan friends, who have their most exciting and competive squad in quite a while

Adding McD at the expense of Rielly does not slot any of our D down a spot.

It leaves us with the same hole and no first or top prospect to try and address it.
 

Dustin

Registered User
Sep 24, 2014
5,001
1,346
If you say so
As NYR fan, i don't want McD going anywhere anyway

But jeez is the Cap situation in 3 years always more important than having a much better team?

Easily saying no to a 28 minute per game #1 D begs the question what are you rooting for, playing for, this year ...

Not making this about you in particular,
I just see that argument here @HFB so often

And sooner than many expected, the Leafs are already on the brink of truly contending.
Seems to me, Add McD, all your D get slotted down a spot and the D, an area of concern, is deeper and better

Anyway McD isn't moving.

But really happy for my Leafs fan friends, who have their most exciting and competive squad in quite a while

Well cap is kind of important these days and seeing the AAV of some of these new contracts such as McDavid and Draisaitl, it makes you pause before you just decide to bring anyone in.

That being said, the question is what will McDonagh be asking for and if so is the difference better than Rielly, our first next year and KK in 2 years. Rielly, KK and the pick will be making less than McDonagh so it's a legitimate question.
 

Michel Beauchamp

Canadiens' fan since 1958
Mar 17, 2008
22,970
3,189
Laval, Qc
Explain to me how the OP posting in the Montreal Canadians "positivity thread" that "Lehkonen will be our best player" means he's not a Hab fan?

:blush:

Ooopsie !

I should have learned by now not to spit in the wind...

Got mixed up with another thread where a poster suggested that the Leafs Big 3 should accept contracts in the range of 5-5-7 (IIRC) for the good of the team.

That poster was not a Leafs fan.

As for the OP of this thread, he should be put on waivers before the beginning of the season.

He's got an irrational hate for Pacioretty.

And his suggestion, to put it midly, is ridiculous.

Rielly will be a good one, a Top 2 or Top 3 dman on a good team.
 

DontLaughAtThat

Registered User
Apr 12, 2017
170
172
Leafs fans will hate this deal and as a Ranger fan, I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up McD and assume that you can build a blue line around Brady Skjei. He's only a sophomore in addition to that, I am personally not too high on Morgan Reilly.
 

broc

Registered User
Dec 20, 2010
1,653
699
2 years of McDonagh before he either walks for nothing, or asks for 9.5-10 mil a year?

Leafs gettin ripped.
Add me to the group who think Rielly signed for 5 more years at 5 mil has more trade value alone than McD.

A lot of ppl on these boards don't put enough factor into contracts, and just think "ZOMG McD is so much better !"
 

Dustin

Registered User
Sep 24, 2014
5,001
1,346
Leafs fans will hate this deal and as a Ranger fan, I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up McD and assume that you can build a blue line around Brady Skjei. He's only a sophomore in addition to that, I am personally not too high on Morgan Reilly.

The Leafs value Rielly more than Skjei so there's that.

Who knows if Rielly can ever become as good a player as McDonagh but even if he can't, the Leafs will look to win games by defensive committee from a solid top 4. Trading Rielly for McDonagh makes the Leafs better today, but almost certainly has a negative effect in 2 years when his contract is up and that's not even including what the 1st pick could be or what kind of player KK turns into.
 

StevenB

Registered User
Oct 7, 2014
1,831
1,063
North York
Came into this thread expecting a bit of normalness, saw that it would take Matthews let alone a + for McDonuts, then contemplated drinking bleach. Just another normal day on hf lmao
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
If you say so
As NYR fan, i don't want McD going anywhere anyway

But jeez is the Cap situation in 3 years always more important than having a much better team?

Adding McD while subtracting Rielly, Kapanen and a 1st doesn't make the Leafs a better team, let alone a much better team. With that trade they might be slightly better next season, while the team is still pretty early in the rebuild, but the loss of Kapanen would make them a worse team by the following year (when it is likely that at least a couple of JVR, Bozak, and Komarov are gone) and then it is downhill fast afterward. Not that it matters because no GM would ever consider it for a second and Lou certainly will not.

Easily saying no to a 28 minute per game #1 D begs the question what are you rooting for, playing for, this year ...

McD played 28 minutes 3 times this year.

Their ES ATOI last year was 18:48 for MR and 18:53 for RM
Their PK ATOI last year was 2:21 for MR and 2:21 for RM
Their PP ATOI last year was 0:58 for MR and 3:05 for RM

So, essentially the exact same, except for McD playing far more the PP. The Leafs have zero need for PP help. Is McD the better D at this time? Yes. Is he a good fit for the Leafs? No. Would he be more valuable over the next two years than Rielly will be for the next 5 years? Not a chance.

Seems to me, Add McD, all your D get slotted down a spot and the D, an area of concern, is deeper and better

Despite many Leafs fans being obsessed with acquiring a #1 D, or at least another top 4D, it seems pretty likely that the Leafs management has decided they are not going to trade significant assets for a D. The shopped around and found the price far too high (and that was situations that were far, far, far, far more reasonable than the trade suggested in the OP). That ship has sailed and is why they signed Hainsey to play on the top 4. They will develop from within. They are a high scoring team, with decent goaltending, and they can still be a playoff team as their D prospects mature over time. Of course, I could be wrong, and perhaps they will trade assets for a #1D who will stick around for a year or two, but that goes against what management has said they are going to do.
 

LoovTrain

Stanley... Come Home
May 6, 2015
636
143
Toronto
Adding McD while subtracting Rielly, Kapanen and a 1st doesn't make the Leafs a better team, let alone a much better team. With that trade they might be slightly better next season, while the team is still pretty early in the rebuild, but the loss of Kapanen would make them a worse team by the following year (when it is likely that at least a couple of JVR, Bozak, and Komarov are gone) and then it is downhill fast afterward. Not that it matters because no GM would ever consider it for a second and Lou certainly will not.



McD played 28 minutes 3 times this year.

Their ES ATOI last year was 18:48 for MR and 18:53 for RM
Their PK ATOI last year was 2:21 for MR and 2:21 for RM
Their PP ATOI last year was 0:58 for MR and 3:05 for RM

So, essentially the exact same, except for McD playing far more the PP. The Leafs have zero need for PP help. Is McD the better D at this time? Yes. Is he a good fit for the Leafs? No. Would he be more valuable over the next two years than Rielly will be for the next 5 years? Not a chance.



Despite many Leafs fans being obsessed with acquiring a #1 D, or at least another top 4D, it seems pretty likely that the Leafs management has decided they are not going to trade significant assets for a D. The shopped around and found the price far too high (and that was situations that were far, far, far, far more reasonable than the trade suggested in the OP). That ship has sailed and is why they signed Hainsey to play on the top 4. They will develop from within. They are a high scoring team, with decent goaltending, and they can still be a playoff team as their D prospects mature over time. Of course, I could be wrong, and perhaps they will trade assets for a #1D who will stick around for a year or two, but that goes against what management has said they are going to do.


Well said.

Ever consider joining Leafs Nation?

We could use more like you.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
5,520
Buffalo
Well said.

Ever consider joining Leafs Nation?

We could use more like you.

This is going to sound a little stupid....but I didn't even know what Leafs Nation was until you mentioned it. I am a new fan to the Leafs, brought over early last season by the excitement of their big 3 rookies and my admiration of how well the team is currently being run.
 

LoovTrain

Stanley... Come Home
May 6, 2015
636
143
Toronto
This is going to sound a little stupid....but I didn't even know what Leafs Nation was until you mentioned it. I am a new fan to the Leafs, brought over early last season by the excitement of their big 3 rookies and my admiration of how well the team is currently being run.


Welcome aboard... glad to have you!
 

rent free

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
20,427
6,114
Last year, Gardiner had more goals, more points, and a better plus/minus (despite the Leafs having a much lower goal differential).

Gardiner is ridiculously underrated. People will take more notice of him this year though when the Leafs are one of the top teams in the East.

Gardiner can also dominate in the playoffs (especially if the games go into OT and 2OT, etc.)... and he will get to showcase that this year during our cup run.

By the end of the year, it will be obvious to everyone that Gardiner is better than McDonagh.

edit: did a quick google search for a list of the best NHL defensemen ... and McDonagh came in at 23 with Gardiner at 24. Not saying this list is gospel or anything... but according to this list, they are basically the same at the moment.

https://www.nhl.com/news/fantasy-hockey-top-50-defenseman-rankings-for-2017-18/c-282830728


Parayko is 34 and gardiner is 24

Gardiner> parayko?
 

DJN21

Registered User
Aug 8, 2011
9,424
2,566
Rochester
Last year, Gardiner had more goals, more points, and a better plus/minus (despite the Leafs having a much lower goal differential).

Gardiner is ridiculously underrated. People will take more notice of him this year though when the Leafs are one of the top teams in the East.

Gardiner can also dominate in the playoffs (especially if the games go into OT and 2OT, etc.)... and he will get to showcase that this year during our cup run.

By the end of the year, it will be obvious to everyone that Gardiner is better than McDonagh.

edit: did a quick google search for a list of the best NHL defensemen ... and McDonagh came in at 23 with Gardiner at 24. Not saying this list is gospel or anything... but according to this list, they are basically the same at the moment.

https://www.nhl.com/news/fantasy-hockey-top-50-defenseman-rankings-for-2017-18/c-282830728

I raise you the poll on the main board where Gardiner isn't yet even nominated and won't crack the top 60...
 

Incetardis

Registered User
Sep 17, 2013
1,487
80
NYR takes this and runs. McD is basically a top 20 defender in the league? Rielly will be that and soon. Noe that the team has some stability they'll find a partner for him and he will excel. No way the Leafs make this deal.
 

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
14,727
3,779
Adding McD while subtracting Rielly, Kapanen and a 1st doesn't make the Leafs a better team, let alone a much better team. With that trade they might be slightly better next season, while the team is still pretty early in the rebuild, but the loss of Kapanen would make them a worse team by the following year (when it is likely that at least a couple of JVR, Bozak, and Komarov are gone) and then it is downhill fast afterward. Not that it matters because no GM would ever consider it for a second and Lou certainly will not.



McD played 28 minutes 3 times this year.

Their ES ATOI last year was 18:48 for MR and 18:53 for RM
Their PK ATOI last year was 2:21 for MR and 2:21 for RM
Their PP ATOI last year was 0:58 for MR and 3:05 for RM

So, essentially the exact same, except for McD playing far more the PP. The Leafs have zero need for PP help. Is McD the better D at this time? Yes. Is he a good fit for the Leafs? No. Would he be more valuable over the next two years than Rielly will be for the next 5 years? Not a chance.



Despite many Leafs fans being obsessed with acquiring a #1 D, or at least another top 4D, it seems pretty likely that the Leafs management has decided they are not going to trade significant assets for a D. The shopped around and found the price far too high (and that was situations that were far, far, far, far more reasonable than the trade suggested in the OP). That ship has sailed and is why they signed Hainsey to play on the top 4. They will develop from within. They are a high scoring team, with decent goaltending, and they can still be a playoff team as their D prospects mature over time. Of course, I could be wrong, and perhaps they will trade assets for a #1D who will stick around for a year or two, but that goes against what management has said they are going to do.

this guy gets it

this should be a pinned post on any Rielly/Marner/Nylander + thread for a top 4 dman
 

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
14,727
3,779
Rielly has been pretty disappointing after all the hype

Except when it counts

MVP for Canada at the WC last year
top dman for team NA in september
best leaf not named matthews in the playoffs

22 year old kid asked to not only provide offense, but shut down the other teams top lines. I would say he has done alright. He is still younger than a guy like Parayko, even those many seem to think he is already well into his prime
 

loyaltotheend

Registered User
May 5, 2016
1,254
411
St. John's
I raise you the poll on the main board where Gardiner isn't yet even nominated and won't crack the top 60...

I have no issue if you want to debate with that poster on if Gardiner is better/worse than McD. But citing an HF poll? Give me a break. This site is overflowing with terrible opinions. There are tons of great, and smart posters here from many fan bases, but they are drowned out by a sea of nonsense.
 

Halla

Registered User
Jan 28, 2016
14,727
3,779
If you say so
As NYR fan, i don't want McD going anywhere anyway

But jeez is the Cap situation in 3 years always more important than having a much better team?

Easily saying no to a 28 minute per game #1 D begs the question what are you rooting for, playing for, this year ...

Not making this about you in particular,
I just see that argument here @HFB so often

And sooner than many expected, the Leafs are already on the brink of truly contending.
Seems to me, Add McD, all your D get slotted down a spot and the D, an area of concern, is deeper and better

Anyway McD isn't moving.

But really happy for my Leafs fan friends, who have their most exciting and competive squad in quite a while

well thats nice and all but the team is a year removed from being the worst team in the NHL. giving up their best dman, a 1st and top prospect for a guy that is further along doesnt make much sense

Mcdonaugh is better than RIelly, yet they have similar trade value based on age, contract etc
 

Man Bear Pig

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
30,995
13,739
Earth
I know leafs fans love to overestimate their players (who doesnt) but Im confused. We can all agree McD is alot better than Rielly, right? And that gap is greater than a prospect like Kapanen. Thats just my opinion from a neutral fan. I would never hesitate doing this trade were I the Leafs. You guys need to watch McD and appreciate what he brings. Hes a legit #1D.
While I wouldn't have an issue with dealing those players, I would hope we could get a younger Dman. That's my issue with it. McDonagh isn't an old man but I'd prefer someone closer to the age of our core who's cost controlled. I'd rather do a Johansen/Jones type of move. And McDonagh is elite, no doubt about it.
 
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