Moore v Bertuzzi

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PhillyNucksFan

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Also, i want to quote from this news
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~84~2718230,00.html

driving his face into the ice. Bertuzzi was preparing to strike the unconscious Moore yet again when his effort was halted by the intervention of other players."

He is using an unproven premise to devise an unoccured consequence as one of his argument???

Weak. It is like saying, I have a gun in my hand, I hold it up, someone held me back and someone on street is claiming i was pointing the gun at him.
He does realize that the law here is "Innocent until proven guilty". I dont see how the "intention" is proven.

In addition,

The suit said Bertuzzi verbally threatened Moore in the Vancouver game, then described the attack this way: "Bertuzzi attempted to confront Moore, but Moore skated away.

Is Moore really a NHL player? He never heard trash talk?

Heck, NFL players should be millions now because they trash talk all the time. How about NBA players?? What a joke
 

LazRNN

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PhillyNucksFan said:
Welcome to the life of an enforcer.

Live with it.

He doesnt have the talent to be top players, so he suits up as an enforcer.

Bad things happen when 2 250 pounders fight each other.

Live with it.


That is the career he chose.

This is like saying, I want to join boxing, but I dont want to get hurt to not box ever again?

See the paradox here?

You’ve proven you’re ignorance by stating that Moore was an enforcer. He was a 4th line grinder, and that’s not the same thing. You know how many fights Moore got in his short career? One. And no, Bertuzzi’s assault on him doesn’t count. He fought Matt Cooke the same game Bertuzzi came at him FROM BEHIND and started beating the back of his head into the ice. According to “the code”, that’s should have been the end of it. Moore made an in game hit on their star, they waited for him to come to their arena, and they picked a fight with him. And he won. That was a problem for the Canucks, so they figured if they can’t take him on fair, they’ll take him from behind. If you really think every hockey player should accept the risk of being attacked from behind without any chance to defend themselves, you’re a pathetic moron of a human being. That wasn’t a fight… it was an assault, plain and simple, and there should be no tolerance of it in hockey. Bertuzzi deserves everything coming to him and then some…
 

PhillyNucksFan

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darkboy said:
You’ve proven you’re ignorance by stating that Moore was an enforcer. He was a 4th line grinder, and that’s not the same thing. You know how many fights Moore got in his short career? One. And no, Bertuzzi’s assault on him doesn’t count. He fought Matt Cooke the same game Bertuzzi came at him FROM BEHIND and started beating the back of his head into the ice. According to “the codeâ€, that’s should have been the end of it. Moore made an in game hit on their star, they waited for him to come to their arena, and they picked a fight with him. And he won. That was a problem for the Canucks, so they figured if they can’t take him on fair, they’ll take him from behind. If you really think every hockey player should accept the risk of being attacked from behind without any chance to defend themselves, you’re a pathetic moron of a human being. That wasn’t a fight… it was an assault, plain and simple, and there should be no tolerance of it in hockey. Bertuzzi deserves everything coming to him and then some…

Why dont you put this case in comparison with the cases that were handed out previously in 1975 and 1977, (link posted) and then come back.

This is all you can attack on my points? About my misunderstanding that Moore was not an enforcer, but rather, he was a productive 3rd liner?? :joker:

69 games 3 seasons with 12 points. Quite productive, huh?
 

Pure Slaughter Value

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Moore could/should get as much as 3.5/4 mill, based on a 7 year, 500k annual salary. Bertuzzi got what, 20 some-odd games and a lot of ribbing by non-hockey fans since the act was stupid and barbaric, maybe losing a mill in the process?

Why are people making it seem like the Canucks organization shouldn't be included in the lawsuit?

1. Burke and his public comments towards Moore after his LEGAL hit on Naslund.
2. Crawford with his clapping, which is one of the most idiotic things I've seen perfect-hair ever do
3. Bertuzzi with his gutless attack, which is what...his 4th or 5th offense in 10 years (and those prior events will definitely be brought up in Court, helping Moore in the process).

That's the GM, Coach and Star Player...pretty much the integral parts of the Canucks, which Moore is suing.
 

Drake1588

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This is fairly cut and dry. The assault has prevented Moore from continuing his NHL career. The Canucks organization is included in the suit because of the almost universal belief that the team players were encouraged, or at the very least not counseled to restrain themselves, from physically targeting Moore in this game, be that the coach, the GM, or what have you. It was premeditated, it occurred in the home building, and it occurred after the score was well out of hand. Moore is going to win and he'll probably reap several million dollars out of it.

I'm not a huge fan of litigious action and even less so in a sports context, but I can't say I have any problem with this. This incident went far beyond the norms of the game and few outside of Vancouver disagree.
 

PhillyNucksFan

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Pure Slaughter Value said:
Moore could/should get as much as 3.5/4 mill, based on a 7 year, 500k annual salary. Bertuzzi got what, 20 some-odd games and a lot of ribbing by non-hockey fans since the act was stupid and barbaric, maybe losing a mill in the process?

Why are people making it seem like the Canucks organization shouldn't be included in the lawsuit?

1. Burke and his public comments towards Moore after his LEGAL hit on Naslund.
2. Crawford with his clapping, which is one of the most idiotic things I've seen perfect-hair ever do
3. Bertuzzi with his gutless attack, which is what...his 4th or 5th offense in 10 years (and those prior events will definitely be brought up in Court, helping Moore in the process).

That's the GM, Coach and Star Player...pretty much the integral parts of the Canucks, which Moore is suing.

how much did moore make last year??
 

PhillyNucksFan

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Pure Slaughter Value said:
No clue. Didn't he become a full time player for the Avs? If so, you'd think he'd get 500k at least.


not sure, but I dont think so (as in Moore a full time player on the Avs with their deep line)

2001-02 COLO, NHL 8 0 0 0 4 -4 0 0 0 5 0.00
2001-02 HERS, AHL 68 10 17 27 31 -3 0 1 0 119 8.40
2002-03 COLO, NHL 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00
2002-03 HERS, AHL 58 10 13 23 41 -14 0 0 0 140 7.14
2003-04 COLO, NHL 57 5 7 12 37 -5 0 0 1 52 9.62
2003-04 HERS, AHL 13 4 4 8 6 10 1 0 1 32 12.50

thats his stat, also

12 poitns in 69 games over the last 4 years in the NHL/AHL. -9 and 57 shots.

Statistically speaking, he doesnt seem to be a full time player.

But, lets say he is, it is still a big assumption that he makes the cut every year and that signed at the same amount, making the same amount (without getting sent to AHL, which would be a 2 way contract I assume).

Also, he is on his way to 27 years old and last year was the first year he really did something, by having forsberg injury on the team AND stayed only 13 games at AHL, instead of usually 13 games in NHL previously.

Also, the CBA is pending, and I'd doubt his future signing would be even more, given the current NHL economic climate.
 

Pure Slaughter Value

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"That is the career he chose.

This is like saying, I want to join boxing, but I dont want to get hurt to not box ever again?

See the paradox here?"

That's a little ignorant, don't you think? You don't think a boxer would sue if he was hit in the back of the head, driven down into the ring and then couldn't box again? That's NOT a part of the sport, much like Bertuzzi's cowardly act is not part of the sport.
 

ResidentAlien*

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Pure Slaughter Value said:
"That is the career he chose.

This is like saying, I want to join boxing, but I dont want to get hurt to not box ever again?

See the paradox here?"

That's a little ignorant, don't you think? You don't think a boxer would sue if he was hit in the back of the head, driven down into the ring and then couldn't box again? That's NOT a part of the sport, much like Bertuzzi's cowardly act is not part of the sport.

It is were I grew up
 

Mr.Brownov*

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Pure Slaughter Value said:
That's NOT a part of the sport, much like Bertuzzi's cowardly act is not part of the sport.


And Moore's hit on Naslund wasn't cowardly?Intent to injure a star player in my eyes.Which I hope they show in court!
 

RorschachWJK

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PhillyNucksFan said:
Welcome to the life of an enforcer.

Live with it.

He doesnt have the talent to be top players, so he suits up as an enforcer.

Bad things happen when 2 250 pounders fight each other.

Live with it.


That is the career he chose.

This is like saying, I want to join boxing, but I dont want to get hurt to not box ever again?

See the paradox here?

Last I checked hockey and boxing were too separate sports. Also, sucker punching from behind and then falling on top of the other guy doesn't sound like boxing either.
 

Pure Slaughter Value

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Mr.Brownov said:
And Moore's hit on Naslund wasn't cowardly?Intent to injure a star player in my eyes.Which I hope they show in court!

Yeah, I could see that....Naslund and Campbell both testifying that the hit was legal and no punishment was necessary though Bertuzzi's required an immediate suspension and having to apply to the NHL again.

That would really, really help Bertuzzi...
 

ResidentAlien*

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Pure Slaughter Value said:
Yeah, I could see that....Naslund and Campbell both testifying that the hit was legal and no punishment was necessary though Bertuzzi's required an immediate suspension and having to apply to the NHL again.

That would really, really help Bertuzzi...

They're are going to have to show it, in order for the "long arm" aspect of CO law to be realized.
 

PhillyNucksFan

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Pure Slaughter Value said:
"That is the career he chose.

This is like saying, I want to join boxing, but I dont want to get hurt to not box ever again?

See the paradox here?"

That's a little ignorant, don't you think? You don't think a boxer would sue if he was hit in the back of the head, driven down into the ring and then couldn't box again? That's NOT a part of the sport, much like Bertuzzi's cowardly act is not part of the sport.


I am sorry you dont find the sarcasism in this.

In case you were wondering, it was meant to be funny, not meant to be a point to be explored, as the format of the post has implied. I began with "its like"..<-- informal...

god.
 

PhillyNucksFan

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Boucicaut said:
Last I checked hockey and boxing were too separate sports. Also, sucker punching from behind and then falling on top of the other guy doesn't sound like boxing either.


lol

I guess you guys dont take any critical reasoning practices?

It was meant to be funny and if it were a point that I'd to discuss, i would put this right after my main point and start with probably " for example, xxxx is xxxxx"..

read previous post

it was sarcastically speaking
 

davemess

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This should be a slam dunk case for Moore...... i cant see anyway in the world that he could lose the case.

If Bertuzzi and the Canucks where smart they would get this settled out of court ASAP.
 

PhillyNucksFan

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davemess said:
This should be a slam dunk case for Moore...... i cant see anyway in the world that he could lose the case.

If Bertuzzi and the Canucks where smart they would get this settled out of court ASAP.


The question is "how much".

Moore did not disclose the amount, which is a smart move.

The only reason I see Moore winning and his strongest case is that Bertuzzi has pled guilty at civil court, which plays, probably, the biggest factor in this.

All of the other above "hitting from behind, moral, evidence of premeditated etc" are worthless IMO. Emotional hockey games, ppl always say I have to stand behind my teammate and etc etc.
 

I Hate You All*

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davemess said:
This should be a slam dunk case for Moore...... i cant see anyway in the world that he could lose the case.

If Bertuzzi and the Canucks where smart they would get this settled out of court ASAP.
If Bertuzzi gets Johnny Cochrane, Steve Moore gets nothing... zero... zilch.
 

Pure Slaughter Value

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PhillyNucksFan said:
I am sorry you dont find the sarcasism in this.

In case you were wondering, it was meant to be funny, not meant to be a point to be explored, as the format of the post has implied. I began with "its like"..<-- informal...

god.


My apologies. I usually do find sarcasm in posts, just missed the net on this one!
 

Pure Slaughter Value

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PhillyNucksFan said:
?

what is chewbacca defense

It's from a SOuth Park episode. Cochrane's hired and spends a couple of minutes explaining how a Chewbacca doll doesn't make sense and if it doesn't make sense you have to acquit. Eventually the jury is so confused one of their heads pop off.

Just a silly South Park reference.
 
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