Line Combos: Montreal Future

[ECWHSWI]

Dont see any issue with that, especially considering have have 2 other Finnish on the team...

so, the reason Armia wants to stay a Hab is whole career is fact CH has 2 Finns on the team ? that's it ?

(it's 3 by the way, not 2)

 

[Goldenhands]

so, the reason Armia wants to stay a Hab is whole career is fact CH has 2 Finns on the team ? that's it ?

(it's 3 by the way, not 2)

Niemi is UFA at the end of the year, they likely wont re-sign him and give Lindgren the backup job... Yeah, thats a pretty good reason if the money is there, having 2 young Finns on the team including a young rising star should matter, Julien uses him alot too and there is no reason to think he is unhappy here and as I said he is RFA, not UFA, the odds he stays here are pretty good at this point IMO, he brings something we are lacking when he is not there, size and possession, Bergevin will surely try hard to keep him here, especially considering he traded for him and looks pretty proud of that trade (rightfully)...

 

[ECWHSWI]

Niemi is UFA at the end of the year, they likely wont re-sign him and give Lindgren the backup job... Yeah, thats a pretty good reason if the money is there, having 2 young Finns on the team including a young rising star should matter, Julien uses him alot too and there is no reason to think he is unhappy here and as I said he is RFA, not UFA, the odds he stays here are pretty good at this point IMO, he brings something we are lacking when he is not there, size and possession, Bergevin will surely try hard to keep him here, especially considering he traded for him and looks pretty proud of that trade (rightfully)...

you should look at the number of teams with two or more Finns...


sure they're good, Habs have other Finns on the team you know...

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lol..Price and Weber..cup contention with our group. Keep dreaming girl.

For that to happen...we need all our 5~6 best prospects to reach their potential. I'll wait to see it happen before making it an expectation.

Well you thought we sucked and were a bottom 5 team before this season started to go figure. It's always the super negative approach and sorry.. I am not fan of "we can't" mentality.

Romanov has a message for you after noticing your pessimistic comments towards our prospects ... "hold my beer"

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm still not convinced about Domi. I just dont see him as that legit #1.
Kotka is great..so was Galch...I wont get my Hopes up that high again.

- I have Domi on the LW (Domi / Poehling / Drouin). I sort of agree with you on the #1C potential but I don't see the Habs getting a Hughes type unless we rebuild and have more tank years and it's not looking like the plan. Kotkaniemi/Domi/Poehling/Danault/Olofsson/Evans can get the job done up the middle. We just need to have a darn good team D in front of Price and a decent PP. Time will tell

- Kotkaniemi vs Galchenyuk. I also agree it's the same type of hope but there are differences. Galchenyuk was not committed to a complete game (offense only) and Kotkaniemi is showing his potential at the position we drafted him... center, at age 18 which is rare in today's NHL. Same type of hope but one plays a much more mature 200' game at age 18. One is more coachable vs the other.

 

[torniojaws]

Niemi is UFA at the end of the year, they likely wont re-sign him and give Lindgren the backup job...

Well, Niemi has been a serviceable backup in his time with the Habs: 13-9-0-5, 3.23, .905
Where his GAA is low due to the games vs. Tampa Bay and Minnesota, before the Dallas match, where the team collectively shat the bed (7 and 6 goals against) after playing well for most of the game.

Whereas Lindgren wasn't that impressive yet, even in Laval.

 

[Deebs]

- I have Domi on the LW (Domi / Poehling / Drouin). I sort of agree with you on the #1C potential but I don't see the Habs getting a Hughes type unless we rebuild and have more tank years and it's not looking like the plan. Kotkaniemi/Domi/Poehling/Danault/Olofsson/Evans can get the job done up the middle. We just need to have a darn good team D in front of Price and a decent PP. Time will tell

- Kotkaniemi vs Galchenyuk. I also agree it's the same type of hope but there are differences. Galchenyuk was not committed to a complete game (offense only) and Kotkaniemi is showing his potential at the position we drafted him... center, at age 18 which is rare in today's NHL. Same type of hope but one plays a much more mature 200' game at age 18. One is more coachable vs the other.

Agree....Kotka is light years ahead of Chucky at this point in their career.

 

[Kriss E]

Semantics. Last year we were horribad with 71 points. This year we are 2 games over .500 at the 40 game mark, on pace for 96 points. This puts us strongly in the playoff hunt, as teams over .500 usually make the playoffs.

This means we are better than last year, so the direction has been right, meaning up, and it is obvious.

Obviously we are headed in the right direction.

What Kriss is saying is that it is not obvious that we will automatically, without thought, plan or effort, continue to move up the standings next year.

He's right. Continued building of the team is possible, particularly if the glaring holes at LD are filled. However, this is not automatic or guaranteed.

Headed in the right direction, to me, means continued improvement, on a road where you know you will end up, ie contention.
That is not our case.
We had a good summer, that's all there is to it.

 

[Kriss E]

We are the youngest team in the league and have one of the top prospects pool in the league not including Kotka who is 18 yrs old already playing in the big league, if you cant figure all the potential of this franchise going foward, I dont know what it takes... We also have 3 vets that still have high value despite their contracts in Price Weber Petry, you put those names on the trade market and you obviously get ton of calls, just eat a part of their salary and they are easily tradables..

I explained why, maybe you should read my post again. One of the top prospect pools, ya, I would assume that much when the team has finished in the bottom 10 for 2 out of the 3 years. Talking about it like this was some kind of planned strategy though is quite the twist of reality.
We did not get ''one of the top prospect pool'' by shrewd moves and planning. It came from the management's failure, the same management that is still leading us...But sure man, we are headed in the right direction....
Come on dude.

 

[Kriss E]

Well you thought we sucked and were a bottom 5 team before this season started to go figure. It's always the super negative approach and sorry.. I am not fan of "we can't" mentality.

Romanov has a message for you after noticing your pessimistic comments towards our prospects ... "hold my beer"

And if it weren't for the big surprise that Domi has been, we would be at the bottom right where I thought we'd be.
All you guys coming back now with this ''I called it'' attitude when none of you predicted Domi's insane start is honestly quite funny. But hey it's all good.

Can't wait to compete for the cup in 3 years. That's what you're saying right? Oh..and with ???? as our #2?

 

[Kriss E]

- I have Domi on the LW (Domi / Poehling / Drouin). I sort of agree with you on the #1C potential but I don't see the Habs getting a Hughes type unless we rebuild and have more tank years and it's not looking like the plan. Kotkaniemi/Domi/Poehling/Danault/Olofsson/Evans can get the job done up the middle. We just need to have a darn good team D in front of Price and a decent PP. Time will tell

- Kotkaniemi vs Galchenyuk. I also agree it's the same type of hope but there are differences. Galchenyuk was not committed to a complete game (offense only) and Kotkaniemi is showing his potential at the position we drafted him... center, at age 18 which is rare in today's NHL. Same type of hope but one plays a much more mature 200' game at age 18. One is more coachable vs the other.

In the end, it's very similar and unless those prospects pretty much all reach their ceilings, we aren't going to contend for a thing.

That line up is incomplete, even the guy who created the thread said so himself. But God forbid I say it looks like a rebuilding roster...too sensitive for some to admit it seems.

 

[ArtPeur]

How many people had Scherbak in their top6 until last September in their future roster?

Asking for a friand

Some players just can't translate their game to the NHL even though they have succesful junior days. I was once very optimistic with prospects, now it's much less

 

[Habs Halifax]

And if it weren't for the big surprise that Domi has been, we would be at the bottom right where I thought we'd be.
All you guys coming back now with this ''I called it'' attitude when none of you predicted Domi's insane start is honestly quite funny. But hey it's all good.

Can't wait to compete for the cup in 3 years. That's what you're saying right? Oh..and with ???? as our #2?

Compete for a cup in 3 years? It's possible but hard to predict how much better we can get from where we are now. Don't you realize that we have a very good prospect pool and we also have the cap space to make other moves? Probability says we improve from where we are today. That's how I see it and I do think we can get inside that top 10 cup contender group. Top 5? Well now that might be a stretch but I think I'll be happy if we are contending for a cup for several years.

Preds are considered cup contenders with RyJo, Turris, Bonino, Jarnkrok as their center depth. Pretty sure Kotkaniemi, Domi, Poehling, Danault, Evans, Olofsson measure up. The center depth for the Habs has been address. Make no sense complaining that we don't have Crosby/Malkin or Matthews/Tavares/Kadri. The key is how does the entire line-up looks and what are the holes in 3 years.

 

[Habs Halifax]

How many people had Scherbak in their top6 until last September in their future roster?

Asking for a friand

Some players just can't translate their game to the NHL even though they have succesful junior days. I was once very optimistic with prospects, now it's much less

I can put Ylonen in our future line-up as a potential. Most realistic future predictions are just simple projections. We all understand the hit/bust factor and how prospects struggle once they turn pro. Pretty sure most who penciled in Scherbak in their top 6 were not dancing around in circles saying he is a game changer like Suzuki could be

 

[Habs Halifax]

In the end, it's very similar and unless those prospects pretty much all reach their ceilings, we aren't going to contend for a thing.

That line up is incomplete, even the guy who created the thread said so himself. But God forbid I say it looks like a rebuilding roster...too sensitive for some to admit it seems.

The formula of your future potential is flawed. Just like how you used last year position in the standings to project into this year. You overlooked injuries to key players for a long period of time and how young players can improve.

You: Bottom 5 team for sure this year. Our roster is crap.
Me: We will be a middle of the pack team and fight for a playoff spot if we are healthy. Pride/Rebound year

At the moment, you are off by almost 10 spots in the standings and I'm almost spot on

You: We will not be a cup contender in 5 years. We need all of our prospects to turn into Crosby
Me: We can improve from where we are today (Fringe playoff team). We have plenty of current players 25 and under and we also have very good prospects who are trending very well in their draft +1 and +2 devevelopment years. We also have cap space to go after an impact UFA at some point.

I'm understanding what you are saying. You want a legit cup cup contending team on the rise like the Leafs are. But there are many ways to build a cup contender and the Habs have the assets and cap space to make our team much better than what it is today. We are trending in the right direction. Preds came out of nowhere into cup contenders a few seasons ago. I'm pretty sure other teams will also be getting into the top 10 cup contender group in the next few seasons. Habs can be one of them cause we have the tools in the toolbox to build it

 

[Kriss E]

Compete for a cup in 3 years? It's possible but hard to predict how much better we can get from where we are now. Don't you realize that we have a very good prospect pool and we also have the cap space to make other moves? Probability says we improve from where we are today. That's how I see it and I do think we can get inside that top 10 cup contender group. Top 5? Well now that might be a stretch but I think I'll be happy if we are contending for a cup for several years.

Preds are considered cup contenders with RyJo, Turris, Bonino, Jarnkrok as their center depth. Pretty sure Kotkaniemi, Domi, Poehling, Danault, Evans, Olofsson measure up. The center depth for the Habs has been address. Make no sense complaining that we don't have Crosby/Malkin or Matthews/Tavares/Kadri. The key is how does the entire line-up looks and what are the holes in 3 years.

Probability also says Weber and Price will see big drops in performances. So ya, give and take, can't be all of one without the other. Laws of average also points towards Domi and Drouin dropping back down to their means. Probability also hints that having 5-8 of your top prospects reach their ceilings is almost impossible.
So if you want to talk about probabilities...you ain't really helping your case.

I think we have some interesting prospects, yes. I also keep in mind how Habs fans overrate their prospects..like...every year.

Preds are considered cup contenders because of their massive blue line, not because they have RyanJo and Turris as center. Most teams can compete with that, and most contenders, if not all, have that beat, but almost none can compare their blue line. You know this already anyways, not sure why you even thought to bring that up. We are nowhere near those guys.
You have two guys you could consider elite on our roster, Weber and Price, and they are on the wrong side of 30. So in 3 years...ya...we better have new elite guys otherwise it doesn't look good for us.

 

[BaseballCoach]

I explained why, maybe you should read my post again. One of the top prospect pools, ya, I would assume that much when the team has finished in the bottom 10 for 2 out of the 3 years. Talking about it like this was some kind of planned strategy though is quite the twist of reality.
We did not get ''one of the top prospect pool'' by shrewd moves and planning. It came from the management's failure, the same management that is still leading us...But sure man, we are headed in the right direction....
Come on dude.

Here is where I share #KrissE's concern. I don't trust Bergevin to make the right moves, just because a couple of his random seemingly unplanned ones worked.

 

[Kriss E]

The formula of your future potential is flawed. Just like how you used last year position in the standings to project into this year. You overlooked injuries to key players for a long period of time and how young players can improve.

You: Bottom 5 team for sure this year. Our roster is crap.
Me: We will be a middle of the pack team and fight for a playoff spot if we are healthy. Pride/Rebound year

At the moment, you are off by almost 10 spots in the standings and I'm almost spot on

You: We will not be a cup contender in 5 years. We need all of our prospects to turn into Crosby
Me: We can improve from where we are today (Fringe playoff team). We have plenty of current players 25 and under and we also have very good prospects who are trending very well in their draft +1 and +2 devevelopment years. We also have cap space to go after an impact UFA at some point.

I'm understanding what you are saying. You want a legit cup cup contending team on the rise like the Leafs are. But there are many ways to build a cup contender and the Habs have the assets and cap space to make our team much better than what it is today. We are trending in the right direction. Preds came out of nowhere into cup contenders a few seasons ago. I'm pretty sure other teams will also be getting into the top 10 cup contender group in the next few seasons. Habs can be one of them cause we have the tools in the toolbox to build it

We are here because Domi came out of nowhere as well as Tatar firing right out of the gate. Don't pretend like you knew this was going to happen. At least be honest about it.

And what I said, unsurprisingly you seem to have forgotten, was that for us to be PO bubble teams, we'd need career highs from many, which is exactly what's happened.
Now, expecting that was unrealistic, and that's why I kept my bottom 5 finish. But I did mention that.
It has nothing to do with us being healthy as we were missing Weber for the start and Price was playing like a mediocre back up goalie, yet we still got some Ws. So it really doesn't anything to do with what you said.


I also never said we need every prospect to become Crosby in 5 years for us to contend. I have no idea what that is about. For real. Don't make stuff up, it's beneath you.

 

[ArtPeur]

I can put Ylonen in our future line-up as a potential. Most realistic future predictions are just simple projections. We all understand the hit/bust factor and how prospects struggle once they turn pro. Pretty sure most who penciled in Scherbak in their top 6 were not dancing around in circles saying he is a game changer like Suzuki could be

Lots of people were high on Scherbak when he was picked up though they were saying he was raw. To me, Suzuki is still more of the same. He may have skills and vision (or IQ) but he may be no Barzal. He could end up like Tanguay or Parenteau.. or even nothing at all.

All in all, I just feel cautious when trying to pencil players on future positions

 

[Habs Halifax]

Probability also says Weber and Price will see big drops in performances. So ya, give and take, can't be all of one without the other. Laws of average also points towards Domi and Drouin dropping back down to their means. Probability also hints that having 5-8 of your top prospects reach their ceilings is almost impossible.
So if you want to talk about probabilities...you ain't really helping your case.

I think we have some interesting prospects, yes. I also keep in mind how Habs fans overrate their prospects..like...every year.

Preds are considered cup contenders because of their massive blue line, not because they have RyanJo and Turris as center. Most teams can compete with that, and most contenders, if not all, have that beat, but almost none can compare their blue line. You know this already anyways, not sure why you even thought to bring that up. We are nowhere near those guys.
You have two guys you could consider elite on our roster, Weber and Price, and they are on the wrong side of 30. So in 3 years...ya...we better have new elite guys otherwise it doesn't look good for us.

I disagree Weber and Price will see "big drops" sin performances in the next 5 years. Maybe very minuscule decline numbers and up and down years. You have been saying Weber is slowing down since he was 30 and there is zero evidence of it. Price is still one of the best in the world. He just needs to stay healthy.

Bottom 5 team for sure is the same comment as Price/Weber will see "Big Drops" in Performance: Sorry, I'm not buying it. You are on a roll with your exaggeration

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lots of people were high on Scherbak when he was picked up though they were saying he was raw. To me, Suzuki is still more of the same. He may have skills and vision (or IQ) but he may be no Barzal. He could end up like Tanguay or Parenteau.. or even nothing at all.

All in all, I just feel cautious when trying to pencil players on future positions

I think we need to be careful with people being "high" on players right after the draft. The key difference in the hope factor is to look at draft +1 and +2 years of development. Scherbak had a decent draft +1 year and the potential was there. He played 2 international games for team Russia in the U20. But once he turned pro, he got hurt in his first year and struggled off and on since. At that point, he's no longer a top 6 potential IMO. It happens but I don't think people were saying he was a for sure top 6 option. It was just a line-up projection and a possibility.

To be honest, I have just as much expectations with Scherbak as I do with Ylonen. Just because I might have him as a potential top 6 option, it don't mean I'm banking on it. The major difference between our prospect pool before and today is options and prospects who are trending very very well!

 

[Yoor]

Based on this, I feel even more justified for wanting this team to lose.

There's no real high end skill there. I'm talking players who will consistently be above a ppg.

The habs will need to land a grand slam, or acquire one somehow.

A dream off season would be landing Panarin/Stone and Duchene. Doubt Stone comes here, but you never know.

Take those 2 and then what we have and we're looking good minus an actual top pairing lhd.

I would not be surprised if the Habs sign Duchene this summer...that would make things very interesting and would certainly free up some depth to dangle for help on LD.

Drouin-Duchene-gallagher
Tatar-Domi-byron
Leks-Kotka-Armia
Agostini-Danault-shaw

Or move Domi to wing and move the parts around.

Probably forgetting someone I'm sure

 

[Habs Halifax]

We are here because Domi came out of nowhere as well as Tatar firing right out of the gate. Don't pretend like you knew this was going to happen. At least be honest about it.

And what I said, unsurprisingly you seem to have forgotten, was that for us to be PO bubble teams, we'd need career highs from many, which is exactly what's happened.
Now, expecting that was unrealistic, and that's why I kept my bottom 5 finish. But I did mention that.
It has nothing to do with us being healthy as we were missing Weber for the start and Price was playing like a mediocre back up goalie, yet we still got some Ws. So it really doesn't anything to do with what you said.


I also never said we need every prospect to become Crosby in 5 years for us to contend. I have no idea what that is about. For real. Don't make stuff up, it's beneath you.

Keep digging for reasons why your prediction was wrong and mine was right cause I was "lucky". I will remind you, the reason why we are where were are are

1) Healthy roster and no major injuries
2) Pride/Rebound year. They are too legit to be a bottom 5 team.
3) Domi, Drouin, Tatar, Danault, Shaw, Kotkaniemi, Petry, Lehkonen, Gallagher ... all having good years in the 1st half.
4) Adding Weber after a few months where ... well... Weber is Weber and I told you. I'm not worried about Weber until age 35/36

It's not just Domi and Tatar. There are many positives going in the right direction for us. It's a team game buddy and a balanced scoring approach. If the team D was better, this team would be in the top 10 mix

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would not be surprised if the Habs sign Duchene this summer...that would make things very interesting and would certainly free up some depth to dangle for help on LD.

Drouin-Duchene-gallagher
Tatar-Domi-byron
Leks-Kotka-Armia
Agostini-Danault-shaw

Or move Domi to wing and move the parts around.

Probably forgetting someone I'm sure

What happens in 2 seasons when Suzuki and Poehling are ready? I don't think Duchene is a smart move. My targets is a power forward and someone at LD.

 

[BaseballCoach]

so, the reason Armia wants to stay a Hab is whole career is fact CH has 2 Finns on the team ? that's it ?

(it's 3 by the way, not 2)

Niemi doesn't count because his name is totally subsumed within Kotkaniemi's