Montreal Expos, what's next? UPDATE 3/25 - Stephen Bronfman says “I think we’re close.”

[razor ray]

 

[razor ray]

 

[razor ray]

Montreal Official: Olympic Stadium Roof Won’t Affect MLB Pursuit

 

[ecemleafs]

just move the mets to montreal already.

 

[justafan22]

I wonder how many times they would play the jays per year assuming they're in the national league

 

[Bjorn Le]

I wonder how many times they would play the jays per year assuming they're in the national league

That's a big assumption to make. Even if they go the expansion route, it's still very possible (even likely I'd say) that they're in division with the Jays.

If they aren't, there will be a guaranteed series every year.

 

[Elliman]

just move the mets to montreal already.

No.

 

[BLONG7]

That's a big assumption to make. Even if they go the expansion route, it's still very possible (even likely I'd say) that they're in division with the Jays.

If they aren't, there will be a guaranteed series every year.

They would have to be put in the AL East...makes perfect sense...Jays/Yanks/Sox would help them draw big time...

 

[razor ray]

Montrealers weigh in on bringing back the Expos

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Manfred on the All Star Game broadcast:

"We have a real list of cities that I think are not only interested in having baseball, but are viable in terms of baseball — places like Portland, Las Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville in the United States, certainly Montreal, maybe Vancouver, in Canada,” Manfred said. “We think there's places in Mexico we could go over the long haul."

 

[No Fun Shogun]

In other words, Manfred wants some cities/potential owners to actually make steps towards building/financing an MLB-caliber ballpark. Pick a decent sized market, and they'll become the instant frontrunner on either the expansion or relocation shortlist for a team the second they have a 30,000+ seat ballpark being constructed.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

I think the Rays were always leaving based on a few folks I know down that way. It was always when not if though.

I still am skeptical that the MLB really wants to go back to Montreal. I think they were excited to see it leave and I think most players hated going there because of things like the language barrier. A fair amount of the league probably wishes with how annoying it is to travel international these days that they would lose Toronto.

 

[Bjorn Le]

I think the Rays were always leaving based on a few folks I know down that way. It was always when not if though.

I still am skeptical that the MLB really wants to go back to Montreal. I think they were excited to see it leave and I think most players hated going there because of things like the language barrier. A fair amount of the league probably wishes with how annoying it is to travel international these days that they would lose Toronto.

People are skeptical because of the way MLB operated under Selig who went out of his way to kill the original Expos. Manfred has been quite clear about his (positive) thoughts on Montreal, and it's the market size alone makes it a premier location. Don't like Selig's horrible decisions change your mind on that.

In other words, Manfred wants some cities/potential owners to actually make steps towards building/financing an MLB-caliber ballpark. Pick a decent sized market, and they'll become the instant frontrunner on either the expansion or relocation shortlist for a team the second they have a 30,000+ seat ballpark being constructed.

Well we know Montreal is making significant progress on building a MLB ballpark. The league probably wants to line up a second (or even third) team so they can move forward with expansion and relocating the Rays.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

These leagues and every city needs a team are killing the product. Theres not enough talent for 30 teams let alone 32

 

[Melrose Munch]

People are skeptical because of the way MLB operated under Selig who went out of his way to kill the original Expos. Manfred has been quite clear about his (positive) thoughts on Montreal, and it's the market size alone makes it a premier location. Don't like Selig's horrible decisions change your mind on that.



Well we know Montreal is making significant progress on building a MLB ballpark. The league probably wants to line up a second (or even third) team so they can move forward with expansion and relocating the Rays.

Vancouver needs to wise up, this is their chance to put themselves on the sporting map here.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Vancouver needs to wise up, this is their chance to put themselves on the sporting map here.

Unfortunately the chances of a stadium getting built in Vancouver are minimal. If it was entirely or mostly funded privately, maybe, but I don't see it.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

isn't there a Vancouver thread that essentially states it is more inconviencing the MLS Whitecaps than it is attracting league baseball, and if the Canucks/Orca Bay aren't a part of it, who would it be.

 

[Fenway]

Jack Todd in the Montreal Gazette makes a good point

Jack Todd: Leave AL East to the Yankees; NL is the place for the Expos

I am as guilty as most people who want to see Major League Baseball return to this city.I thought instant rivalries with the Toronto Blue Jays, Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees made it a no-brainer for the Expos to play in the AL East.

Upon further reflection, I’ve concluded for prospective owners Mitch Garber and Stephen Bronfman, the AL East should be a deal-breaker.

Here’s the thing: On June 5 this year, I happened to notice the well-heeled Blue Jays had already lost their 34th game of the season. How long, I wondered, would it take the Yankees and Red Sox to reach that level? I guessed it would be around three weeks, meaning the Jays were, in effect, three weeks behind.

So here it is July 22 and as of this writing, the Yankees (who have been struggling of late) have exactly 34 losses, while the mighty Red Sox are still at 31 losses. The Blue Jays, coming off a modest two-game winning streak, have 52 losses and are 22.5 games out. Their season was over by Canada Day.

Even the Jays can point down in the standings to the once-proud Baltimore Orioles, who went into play Sunday with a record of 28-71, 40.5 games out in July — and in a move reminiscent of Claude Brochu and his fire sales, the Orioles have dealt their best player, Manny Machado, to the high-rent Los Angeles Dodgers. That’s the reality of the AL East.

You want the Expos to play in this division? Seriously? To be doomed to an eternal effort to grab the second wild-card spot, this season in competition with the 59-40 Seattle Mariners out West?

 

[BigMac1212]

Here's a baseball expansion idea for 2018 I would like to share. WARNING! The Google Map is still a work in progress (WIP), and some of my thoughts might be unorthodox for 2018.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Jack Todd in the Montreal Gazette makes a good point

Jack Todd: Leave AL East to the Yankees; NL is the place for the Expos

I am as guilty as most people who want to see Major League Baseball return to this city.I thought instant rivalries with the Toronto Blue Jays, Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees made it a no-brainer for the Expos to play in the AL East.

Upon further reflection, I’ve concluded for prospective owners Mitch Garber and Stephen Bronfman, the AL East should be a deal-breaker.

Here’s the thing: On June 5 this year, I happened to notice the well-heeled Blue Jays had already lost their 34th game of the season. How long, I wondered, would it take the Yankees and Red Sox to reach that level? I guessed it would be around three weeks, meaning the Jays were, in effect, three weeks behind.

So here it is July 22 and as of this writing, the Yankees (who have been struggling of late) have exactly 34 losses, while the mighty Red Sox are still at 31 losses. The Blue Jays, coming off a modest two-game winning streak, have 52 losses and are 22.5 games out. Their season was over by Canada Day.

Even the Jays can point down in the standings to the once-proud Baltimore Orioles, who went into play Sunday with a record of 28-71, 40.5 games out in July — and in a move reminiscent of Claude Brochu and his fire sales, the Orioles have dealt their best player, Manny Machado, to the high-rent Los Angeles Dodgers. That’s the reality of the AL East.

You want the Expos to play in this division? Seriously? To be doomed to an eternal effort to grab the second wild-card spot, this season in competition with the 59-40 Seattle Mariners out West?

He's right, and everyone knows it as well.

 

[KevFu]

I don't understand why it's a "no brainer" to put MON the AL for rivalries with TOR/BOS (or a potential Portland or Vancouver team in the AL), when the AL & NL operated on the exact opposite plan for 125 years, and only the stupidity of 30 teams (which they accidentally found themselves in with zero intention of expanding to 30) led them to move Houston to the AL.

Prior to that...
NYM/NYY
CHC/CWS
LAD/LAA
SFG/OAK
STL/KC
HOU/TEX
WAS/BAL
MIA/TB
CIN/CLE
MON/TOR

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I don't understand why it's a "no brainer" to put MON the AL for rivalries with TOR/BOS (or a potential Portland or Vancouver team in the AL), when the AL & NL operated on the exact opposite plan for 125 years, and only the stupidity of 30 teams (which they accidentally found themselves in with zero intention of expanding to 30) led them to move Houston to the AL.

Prior to that...
NYM/NYY
CHC/CWS
LAD/LAA
SFG/OAK
STL/KC
HOU/TEX
WAS/BAL
MIA/TB
CIN/CLE
MON/TOR

Kev:

Houston wasn't switched because of that, care to explain why Milwaukee was switched to the NL after the 6 division alignment was created.... remember the Brewers being a part of the AL East for years long before TB, SAME COULD BE SAID for Cleveland, it was simply to balance the conferences the same thing the NHL is trying to do with Vegas and Seattle logistically to balance the conferences out at 16-16... that's why you're not ever going to see a Western team be relocated East, unless there's a full-scale realignment to no longer have 2 8 team divisions in each NHL Conference and why Toronto, Detroit and Columbus won that right to switch conferences/divisions.

 

[KevFu]

Kev:

Houston wasn't switched because of that, care to explain why Milwaukee was switched to the NL after the 6 division alignment was created.... remember the Brewers being a part of the AL East for years long before TB, SAME COULD BE SAID for Cleveland, it was simply to balance the conferences the same thing the NHL is trying to do with Vegas and Seattle logistically to balance the conferences out at 16-16.

Houston was switched because:
- Scheduling was a nightmare with a 4-5-5, 5-6-5 alignment. THAT was what they wanted to fix.
- MLB has a rule that gives each team VETO POWER on a league switch. The Astros were for sale, so MLB could say “Switch leagues or we don’t approve the sale” and avoid the Veto.
- Texas had been the only Central Time team in the AL West for 15 years, they were highly interested in switching from 36 games in Seattle/California to 27.
- Everyone was used to interleague by now, so daily interleague wasn’t a big deal. (When Milwaukee was switched to the NL for 1998, interleague was radical and blasphemous).

And any comparisons to hockey end right here: The NHL plays 82 games in 180 days. You CAN HAVE an odd-number of NHL, NBA, NFL teams. MLB plays 162 games in 190 days. You can’t have an odd number of baseball teams.


But the root cause of all of this is Tampa.

14 AL Teams, 12 NL teams in 1988. Over the next six years:
- The White Sox were getting no traction on a new stadium, so they started negotiating a move to Tampa.
- Illinois caved and approved New Comiskey Park at the last minute, so Sox back out on Tampa.

- NL said they were going to expand to 14; Tampa applied.
- Tampa Bay BUILT THE STADIUM (The reason the Rays’ stadium is awful is because it was designed in 1986).
- NL awarded expansion teams to Miami and Denver, ignoring Tampa.

- Tampa owner bought the San Francisco Giants to move to Tampa.
- The owners vetoed the sale/relocation.

- Tampa was LIVID and the Florida politicians called for Congressional Hearings to strip MLB of it’s anti-trust exemption.
- MLB gave Tampa an expansion team to get Congress off their backs.

Who joins with Tampa? White Sox owner (also owns NBA Chicago Bulls), calls his friend Jerry Colangelo (owns the NBA Phoenix Suns). He says: Sure, he’ll take an MLB team in Phoenix… if it’s in the National League.

The AL wanted the new expansion teams, because the NL just expanded and the AL hadn’t since 1977. The NL just got Miami, the AL gets Tampa. But Colangelo wouldn’t budge “rivalry with Dodgers, not paying a DH; NL or I don’t buy.” MLB has to agree.

MLB talked about radical realignment and the owners saw dollar signs. But every fan freaked out: don’t mess with 120 years of tradition.

So they said “fine, Arizona in the NL, Tampa in the AL, 5x5x5 in each league. Everyone wins.”
Schedule makers said “We can’t schedule this, unless there’s interleague play. Owners said voted to introduce LIMITED interleague.

Still didn’t solve the problem. NO ONE wanted to switch leagues. So Bud Selig, the acting commission who turned control of the Milwaukee Brewers over to HIS DAUGHTER when he became commissioner, volunteered the Brewers to switch so baseball didn’t implode.


Now, where we are today… MLB wants to expand because (A) expansion dollars are fun to get and (b) year-round interleague IS STILL A MESS TO SCHEDULE. It’s better that the 1998-2012 convoluted mess, but 32 teams is perfect symmetry and can easily be scheduled.


Also, remember that the AL and NL were not “conferences” of MLB. The AL and NL were separate business waaaaaaay back in the day, who crafted an agreement to work together in 1903. “MLB” was only that piece of paper until 1999, when they merged the two league offices into Major League Baseball. (that’s why expansion was always “each league adds 2” until 1998, and why the vote on San Francisco’s move to Tampa involved the AL owners).

And by the way, the merging of that document with the NL and AL constitutions into the MLB constitution is why Oakland can’t get a new stadium in Santa Clara. They screwed it up, and accidentally gave Santa Clara as exclusive Giants territory in the process; the Giants and A’s were both sold midway through the process and the new owners didn’t notice the change.


Sorry that’s so long. But that’s what happened.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Houston was switched because:
- Scheduling was a nightmare with a 4-5-5, 5-6-5 alignment. THAT was what they wanted to fix.
- MLB has a rule that gives each team VETO POWER on a league switch. The Astros were for sale, so MLB could say “Switch leagues or we don’t approve the sale” and avoid the Veto.
- Texas had been the only Central Time team in the AL West for 15 years, they were highly interested in switching from 36 games in Seattle/California to 27.
- Everyone was used to interleague by now, so daily interleague wasn’t a big deal. (When Milwaukee was switched to the NL for 1998, interleague was radical and blasphemous).

And any comparisons to hockey end right here: The NHL plays 82 games in 180 days. You CAN HAVE an odd-number of NHL, NBA, NFL teams. MLB plays 162 games in 190 days. You can’t have an odd number of baseball teams.


But the root cause of all of this is Tampa.

14 AL Teams, 12 NL teams in 1988. Over the next six years:
- The White Sox were getting no traction on a new stadium, so they started negotiating a move to Tampa.
- Illinois caved and approved New Comiskey Park at the last minute, so Sox back out on Tampa.

- NL said they were going to expand to 14; Tampa applied.
- Tampa Bay BUILT THE STADIUM (The reason the Rays’ stadium is awful is because it was designed in 1986).
- NL awarded expansion teams to Miami and Denver, ignoring Tampa.

- Tampa owner bought the San Francisco Giants to move to Tampa.
- The owners vetoed the sale/relocation.

- Tampa was LIVID and the Florida politicians called for Congressional Hearings to strip MLB of it’s anti-trust exemption.
- MLB gave Tampa an expansion team to get Congress off their backs.

Who joins with Tampa? White Sox owner (also owns NBA Chicago Bulls), calls his friend Jerry Colangelo (owns the NBA Phoenix Suns). He says: Sure, he’ll take an MLB team in Phoenix… if it’s in the National League.

The AL wanted the new expansion teams, because the NL just expanded and the AL hadn’t since 1977. The NL just got Miami, the AL gets Tampa. But Colangelo wouldn’t budge “rivalry with Dodgers, not paying a DH; NL or I don’t buy.” MLB has to agree.

MLB talked about radical realignment and the owners saw dollar signs. But every fan freaked out: don’t mess with 120 years of tradition.

So they said “fine, Arizona in the NL, Tampa in the AL, 5x5x5 in each league. Everyone wins.”
Schedule makers said “We can’t schedule this, unless there’s interleague play. Owners said voted to introduce LIMITED interleague.

Still didn’t solve the problem. NO ONE wanted to switch leagues. So Bud Selig, the acting commission who turned control of the Milwaukee Brewers over to HIS DAUGHTER when he became commissioner, volunteered the Brewers to switch so baseball didn’t implode.


Now, where we are today… MLB wants to expand because (A) expansion dollars are fun to get and (b) year-round interleague IS STILL A MESS TO SCHEDULE. It’s better that the 1998-2012 convoluted mess, but 32 teams is perfect symmetry and can easily be scheduled.


Also, remember that the AL and NL were not “conferences” of MLB. The AL and NL were separate business waaaaaaay back in the day, who crafted an agreement to work together in 1903. “MLB” was only that piece of paper until 1999, when they merged the two league offices into Major League Baseball. (that’s why expansion was always “each league adds 2” until 1998, and why the vote on San Francisco’s move to Tampa involved the AL owners).

And by the way, the merging of that document with the NL and AL constitutions into the MLB constitution is why Oakland can’t get a new stadium in Santa Clara. They screwed it up, and accidentally gave Santa Clara as exclusive Giants territory in the process; the Giants and A’s were both sold midway through the process and the new owners didn’t notice the change.


Sorry that’s so long. But that’s what happened.

never buying that party line, sorry

 

[KevFu]

never buying that party line, sorry

That's most definitely NOT the party line.

Do a little googling.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...62d-90c7-c875f440c38b/?utm_term=.c58daa9f60f9