HF Habs: Montreal Canadiens Draft (#3, #35, #38, #56, #62, #66, #97, #102, #122 & #128)

Status
Not open for further replies.

OB5

Registered User
May 2, 2015
5,576
3,997
Keep Zadina, trade Pacioretty for another first round pick in 2018. Then put Weber on the market and get an additional first round pick for 2019.

I think trading Pacioretty for a C or D is a better bet for them, they need an established player or a sure-thing prospect in return for him, no?
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
25,915
East Coast
Absolutely not.

The whole point of being in the upper echelon in the draft if to walk away with the type of player that Zadina is. I'd rather one great player over two good ones.

Except there is no guarantees that all prospects are more valuable in order of how they are drafted. McAvoy was drafted 14th in 2016 while Puljujarvi and Juolevi were drafted 4th and 5th. In 24 months from now... The top 10 rankings of the 2018 draft will be much different. Maybe Zadina is still top 3 but maybe guys like Kotkaniemi and Smith are ranked in the top 5? Get my point?

I like Zadina a lot but I also like a lot of players ranked from 5-15 range too! Nobody can predict how this will unfold on draft day and 12-24 months after draft day. Rankings are rankings... they all vary and we are talking about prospects that are age 17/18. The development after being drafted from age 18-20 changes things a lot!

You can't tell the difference between good and great at this stage and project that into the future for sure.
 

sheed36

Registered User
Jan 8, 2005
46,758
34,117
No Man's Land
I think it's either going to be Zadina or Dobson for the Habs.

I'm just trying to get familiar with possible Habs draft targets but would Dobson really be a good pick @ 3 for the Habs? As anyone ranked Dobson to possibly go that high? Scott Wheeler in his final list, which was briefly posted here a couple days ago, had him ranked 12th. The last list from Button and Bobby Mac I've seen had him 8th.
 

WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
91,118
91,542
Halifax
I'm just trying to get familiar with possible Habs draft targets but would Dobson really be a good pick @ 3 for the Habs? As anyone ranked Dobson to possibly go that high? Scott Wheeler in his final list, which was briefly posted here a couple days ago, had him ranked 12th. The last list from Button and Bobby Mac I've seen had him 8th.

Any of:
Adam Boqvist D SHL -
Oliver Wahlstrom C/RW -
Filip Zadina LW QMJHL -
Jesper Kotkaniemi C FEL -
Noah Dobson D QMJHL -
Quinton Hughes D NCAA -

Are a good pick at 3.
 

OB5

Registered User
May 2, 2015
5,576
3,997
Except there is no guarantees that all prospects are more valuable in order of how they are drafted. McAvoy was drafted 14th in 2016 while Puljujarvi and Juolevi were drafted 4th and 5th. In 24 months from now... The top 10 rankings of the 2018 draft will be much different. Maybe Zadina is still top 3 but maybe guys like Kotkaniemi and Smith are ranked in the top 5? Get my point?

I like Zadina a lot but I also like a lot of players ranked from 5-15 range too! Nobody can predict how this will unfold on draft day and 12-24 months after draft day. Rankings are rankings... they all vary and we are talking about prospects that are age 17/18. The development after being drafted from age 18-20 changes things a lot!

You can't tell the difference between good and great at this stage and project that into the future for sure.
Maybe I'm being a bit basic about it, and I certainly agree with you that the more picks they get the better off they'll be....but I just think that the top 3 are in a class above the rest (with the top being in a class above 2 and 3). I'm no scout or expert, just stuff based off of what I have read.

If bergevin is able to move down, get a top 10 pick AND an established NHL C or D, then sure
 
  • Like
Reactions: ToLegitToQuit

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
25,915
East Coast
I think trading Pacioretty for a C or D is a better bet for them, they need an established player or a sure-thing prospect in return for him, no?

Need vs Want vs Reality

No team is trading an established center or D for one year of Patch. It's a dream and high price you will not get. Would you trade Mete for one year of Duchene?
 

MSSLYNX

Registered User
Jul 27, 2009
4,009
917
It's hard to remember the exact hype there was for each draft year and compare it to the hype of this year being a deep draft. I suspect the amount of impact players that comes from the 2nd round varies by year to year and you can come up with an average of 2 guys per year (+/-). So the question is this... Is 2018 a deep enough draft where this offsets the average and we end up with 4-6 impact players from the 2nd round this year?

Look at a guy like Wise. Would he be a 1st round pick in previous years or the same as this year. A middle ish 2nd round ranking?

That's where I stand for this draft. I realize that the 2nd round gives us no guarantees with those 4 picks but then I wonder how deep it actually is compared to other years. Where does the deep depth stop and become normal like all other years. Is there really typical 1st round picks towards the middle (or later parts) of the 2nd round this year? Of course we can use hindsight evaluation later but what do we think today?
Like i said year after year output of good nhlers in 2nd round is pretty consistent if you go back and check the names. Same goes for 2018. 8 out of 30 was best year. More bottom 6 than top guys. Got to admit i was surprised. Probably draft hype.
 

Habby Patty

Registered User
May 7, 2018
432
470
Ontario
Did you guys hear about Peter Chiarelli "actively shopping" the 10th overall pick? Pacioretty and a 2nd for this pick is perfect. We aim for Kotkaniemi but if he goes before 10 then we take whoever is left out of the defensemen who were projected top 10. I like Dobson at 10 but our main goal is Kotkaniemi.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
25,915
East Coast
Maybe I'm being a bit basic about it, and I certainly agree with you that the more picks they get the better off they'll be....but I just think that the top 3 are in a class above the rest (with the top being in a class above 2 and 3). I'm no scout or expert, just stuff based off of what I have read.

If bergevin is able to move down, get a top 10 pick AND an established NHL C or D, then sure

I agree with you that the top 3 looks like safe bets to be impact players. I would be very happy with Zadina. However, I'm looking at the guys from 5-12 range and I wonder which of these kids will develop into a player that is just as valuable as the top 3.

Zadina vs Kotkaniemi and Smith. I tell you, I'm thinking about this one very hard! If the offer was on the table.
 

Habby Patty

Registered User
May 7, 2018
432
470
Ontario
I think we will regret it if we pass on Zadina. However I have a great feeling about Wahlstrom. I feel like he comes out of this draft class 2nd best to Dahlin.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
25,915
East Coast
Like i said year after year output of good nhlers in 2nd round is pretty consistent if you go back and check the names. Same goes for 2018. 8 out of 30 was best year. More bottom 6 than top guys. Got to admit i was surprised. Probably draft hype.

But what do you think about this years draft? Will it fall into the average of previous years? Or better? I understand and agree with what your saying. I'm asking you to stick your neck out and tell us what you think about how deep this draft year is? Hype is different from year to year. Is this year all Hype too? I'm assuming you think it is?
 

MSSLYNX

Registered User
Jul 27, 2009
4,009
917
Any of:
Adam Boqvist D SHL -
Oliver Wahlstrom C/RW -
Filip Zadina LW QMJHL -
Jesper Kotkaniemi C FEL -
Noah Dobson D QMJHL -
Quinton Hughes D NCAA -

Are a good pick at 3.
Therefore they are all great picks at 7-8. Trade down then.
 

OB5

Registered User
May 2, 2015
5,576
3,997
Need vs Want vs Reality

No team is trading an established center or D for one year of Patch. It's a dream and high price you will not get. Would you trade Mete for one year of Duchene?
Yeah I know I'm dreaming...but they have to try. He's their best asset right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ToLegitToQuit

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
25,915
East Coast
I think we will regret it if we pass on Zadina. However I have a great feeling about Wahlstrom. I feel like he comes out of this draft class 2nd best to Dahlin.

The 9th pick in 2016 was easy. We had a top 5 and took the best from that list when we picked at 9th. Imagine having the 4th pick that year? Who would you of taken? You can use hindsight evaluation all you want but most are taking Puljujarvi or Juolevi.

I think Zadina is just as much of a safe bet to be an impact player as any prospect in this draft year. As far as Wahlstrom, I like him just as much as Boqvist, Tkachuk, Hughes, Kotkaniemi.
 

MSSLYNX

Registered User
Jul 27, 2009
4,009
917
But what do you think about this years draft? Will it fall into the average of previous years? Or better? I understand and agree with what your saying. I'm asking you to stick your neck out and tell us what you think about how deep this draft year is? Hype is different from year to year. Is this year all Hype too? I'm assuming you think it is?
Aint no scout but my take is that better draft years are producing like 15 good nhlers first round vs 5 in a bad year. Not sure it applies to other rounds. Not from checking 2nd rounds from 2010-2014. I dont see a lot of top end talent after top 7.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
25,915
East Coast
Yeah I know I'm dreaming...but they have to try. He's their best asset right now.

We did try to get Borstrom+ when the Panthers called. I support setting the price high but you can't draw a line in the sand or we will walk away with nothing. Circumstances worked in favor with Sakic but he got lucky IMO. If Turris did not need a new contract, that deal would of not went down.

With Patch, I think it's best to target the best pick possible in 2018. Hopefully we can get a top 10-15 pick ish and add another conditional pick if he re-signs. Maybe you get a grade B prospect to go along with it (whip dee do). But if we are going to get that center we need, we need to acquire the 1st round pick. Once these kids are drafted and you look at them 12 months later. Their stock rises and teams will not trade them for rentals.
 

sheed36

Registered User
Jan 8, 2005
46,758
34,117
No Man's Land
Unfortunately, there's a really bad option named Brady Tkachuk and he's who I think they like the best.

I fully aware reading here of your opinion and others opinions on Tkachuk. Hopefully you're just thinking the worst and the Habs have the same opinion as you and others on taking Tkachuk @ 3. All I know is the Habs really need to get this 3rd pick and this entire draft right since they desperately need some talent in the organization.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
68,164
25,915
East Coast
Aint no scout but my take is that better draft years are producing like 15 good nhlers first round vs 5 in a bad year. Not sure it applies to other rounds. Not from checking 2nd rounds from 2010-2014. I dont see a lot of top end talent after top 7.

I'm no expert as well. I do try to look beyond the hype though. Top 10-15 range reminds me of 2016 actually. Not sure about how the 20-40 range is to be honest. It just feels like there is talent in that range but maybe were a bit bias as Habs fans cause we have 4 picks in the 2nd round and we all are doing so much searching and evaluating lots of players in that range.

Time will tell. Hope the hype is real
 

OB5

Registered User
May 2, 2015
5,576
3,997
We did try to get Borstrom+ when the Panthers called. I support setting the price high but you can't draw a line in the sand or we will walk away with nothing. Circumstances worked in favor with Sakic but he got lucky IMO. If Turris did not need a new contract, that deal would of not went down.

With Patch, I think it's best to target the best pick possible in 2018. Hopefully we can get a top 10-15 pick ish and add another conditional pick if he re-signs. Maybe you get a grade B prospect to go along with it (whip dee do). But if we are going to get that center we need, we need to acquire the 1st round pick. Once these kids are drafted and you look at them 12 months later. Their stock rises and teams will not trade them for rentals.

If they could land a Kontoniemi then sure. I still think he gets moved for an NHL C or D.
 

NotProkofievian

Registered User
Nov 29, 2011
24,476
24,599
I think trading Pacioretty for a C or D is a better bet for them, they need an established player or a sure-thing prospect in return for him, no?

Certainty is paid for with upside. No one's giving you a sure bet top line player with low-cost RFA, arbitration free years for one year of Pacioretty. Gotta be willing to roll the dice if you want to win big.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->