Montoya vs. Dubnyk vs. Schwarz

[Hunter Gathers]

I know I'll be a Benedict Arnold now, but C'MON, puck handling is the most overrated part of being a goalie. It's a nice bonus, but the goalie's main job is to stop the puck. Shwarz is in good shape if the reason he fell is because he can't play the puck. I find it funny that now that we have a goalie that can play the puck u make it seem like it's so important. Blackburn+Richter=couldn't handle the puck (at least not that well), yet I bet b4 Montoya u would've said it doesn't matter. How well did Roy (who I hate) handle the puck? Oh and there might be rules limiting puck handling anyway.

Go read my post.

I said it was a combination of his skating, mental game (easily rattled, etc.) and puck playing.

 

[NYRGoalieGlut*]

IMHO. coming from a Thrashers fan, Al Montoya was one of the most hyped up players in the drafte because of 1 tournament. Michigan is known for being a tight defensive team, thus inflating his stats making him look better than what he is (hello Mr. Brodeur - except Brodeur is actually pretty good). Dont get me wrong, he does have talent or else he would not have gotten drafted that high, but mark my word - he will never be as good as what most of you people think. Dubnyk stole the show a few times this year for Kamloops, and was the best goalie at the top prospects game.

Dubnyk
Schwarz (close between him and Dubnyk)
Montoya

I apologize, I missed, the Thrashers fan part. I just saw that u were from Canada (is it even close to Edmonton. Anyway, I apologize again.

 

[NYRGoalieGlut*]

Go read my post.

I said it was a combination of his skating, mental game (easily rattled, etc.) and puck playing.

Yeah I did read it, but u mentioned puck handling first, like it was paramount.

 

[NYRGoalieGlut*]

The guy does make a good point. Mich is a pretty tight team and a good system it could inflate someone's potential, like Labarbera last year, (c'mon AHL mvp my foot). I think also Butterfly goalies get to show off by stats, which can be more of a reflection of a team than the actual goalie which is tough, but a guy like Schwarz is judged by his skills alone.

I don't care that he put Montoya last, I went by him being the only one putting Dubnyk first (at least for right now, maybe that wasn't for right now, he wasn't specific).

 

[O.T.]

Oilers fan? (Pretty obvious w/ Dubnyk being first, don't care that Montoya is last).

Even if he was an Oilers fan, what does that matter, everyone has an opinion and just because a Rangers fans rates Montoya the best does'nt mean that we should rip into him because he's a Rangers fan and rated Montoya first. Hell, earlier in the post you were asking what team Dubnyk played for and what style he plays, but now you're qualified to say that he is definatly not the top goalie? That really does'nt make sense to me.

It's not like these goalies are light years appart, any one of the three could develop into the best keeper in the draft, right now it's a toss up. There was also a rumour that St.Louis tried to trade up with the Oilers so that they could snag Dubnyk, that's why the Oilers took him because they felt he was the best available netminder in the draft and they knew that there was no chance of him lasting until the 25th pick.

I'm not gonna rate them because this is my post and to tell you the truth, I have no clue. But I do know this, I've seen Dubnyk on a few occasions, and I've also been watching the Prospects game over on tape lately, and he is a very, very good goaltending prospect. He is also the leading contender for the starters job on team Canada for next years WJC team. I'm hoping that he's the starter because it would be nice for him, Montoya, and Schwartz to go head to head, so that we can see how they compare to each other.

 

[degroat*]

There was also a rumour that St.Louis tried to trade up with the Oilers so that they could snag Dubnyk,

I don't doubt that the rumor is true because I did hear that the Blues liked Dubnyk [not neccessarily better than the other two though], but I seriously doubt that they would have done that if they were confident that either Dubnyk or Schwarz would have dropped to #17. They probably thought that both Schwarz and Montoya would be gone at #14 and wanted to make sure they got one of the 3.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Bull.

He fell because he can't handle the puck worth anything, skates like he has bricks tied to his ankles, and really needs to work on his mental game. He's also small.

He has all-world talents, but he is easily rattled in games. His skating is VERY bad news, but that can be taught. The most I worry about is his consistency.

Rankings:

Now

1) Montoya
2) Schwarz
3) Dubnyk

Potential

1) Schwarz
2) Montoya
3) Dubnyk

Personally id ratrehr have a goalie who can stop the puck then one who can handle it.

Isnt the name of the game stoping the black thing? I thought it was.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Go read my post.

I said it was a combination of his skating, mental game (easily rattled, etc.) and puck playing.

WHat evidience do you have he is easily rattled??

 

[guitaraholic*]

"There was also a rumour that St.Louis tried to trade up with the Oilers so that they could snag Dubnyk,"

Yeah, and well all know how great the Canadian press is where their coverage of the Blues and trade rumours is concerned. sort of like the Pronger trade rumours, eh? If it's a rumour then it has to be true, right? Anyway, I'm sure the Blues are thrilled with who they landed @ 17 and when it comes to projecting what a goalie will develop into, well, the experts can't even do that so none of us have much of a chance, either. And, finally, seeing as how these guys played in completely different leagues I doubt there are very many of you that have seen each of them extensively enough to really have a good sense of who's "better" now anyway.

Seems to me most of you are picking guys who are aligned with your favorite teams or something like that. Doesn't matter, nobody will know the answer to the question of who's better for at least another 3 years, minimum.

 

[NYRGoalieGlut*]

Even if he was an Oilers fan, what does that matter, everyone has an opinion and just because a Rangers fans rates Montoya the best does'nt mean that we should rip into him because he's a Rangers fan and rated Montoya first. Hell, earlier in the post you were asking what team Dubnyk played for and what style he plays, but now you're qualified to say that he is definatly not the top goalie? That really does'nt make sense to me.

It's not like these goalies are light years appart, any one of the three could develop into the best keeper in the draft, right now it's a toss up. There was also a rumour that St.Louis tried to trade up with the Oilers so that they could snag Dubnyk, that's why the Oilers took him because they felt he was the best available netminder in the draft and they knew that there was no chance of him lasting until the 25th pick.

I'm not gonna rate them because this is my post and to tell you the truth, I have no clue. But I do know this, I've seen Dubnyk on a few occasions, and I've also been watching the Prospects game over on tape lately, and he is a very, very good goaltending prospect. He is also the leading contender for the starters job on team Canada for next years WJC team. I'm hoping that he's the starter because it would be nice for him, Montoya, and Schwartz to go head to head, so that we can see how they compare to each other.

I don't know if u saw the next post where I apologized and realized he wasn't an Oilers fan. Anyway, u'r right, it's his opinion, but I figured that he was an Oilers fan, and it seemed pretty obvious and biased. No, I don't know much about Dubnyk, but I figured since most people don't put him first, at least right now he's not first (he didn't specify if it was now or potential). I admit that's not a good way to judge these things though. Anyway, sure bash Rangers for putting Montoya first, then again, Rangers fans r the most pessimistic fans in the world and half of them would put Montoya last just to spite Sather (like he's reading this or something).

 

[misfit]

I haven't seen any of these goalies play at any real length, but the Cannuck scouts had Dubnyk and Schwarz ranked evenly based on this quote from cannucks.com.

http://www.canucks.com/theinsider/default.asp?sectionID=5&id=1180
"According to Nonis, the Canucks had considered trading current assets to move up in the draft for a pick higher than their slotted 26th spot. It's impossible to say who they were looking at, but Delorme admits they had goaltenders Devan Dubnyk, Cory Schneider and Marek Schwarz all rated equally. Dubnyk went 14th overall to Edmonton while Schwarz went 17th to St. Louis."

I'm assuming they had Montoya first, but Schwarz obviously wasn't the consensus top netminder, or even 2nd as far as individual team's scouts were concerned.

 

[Hockeycrazed07]

Personally id ratrehr have a goalie who can stop the puck then one who can handle it.

Isnt the name of the game stoping the black thing? I thought it was.

I'd rather have a keeper that could do both. Do you remember Arturs Irbe when he was with the Sharks? Back then, he was "like wall" when in the net, but outside...shudder. Teams these days can and will dump the puck in on a poor puckhandling keeper to force them to play the puck. Thus, puckhandling is just as important as stopping the disk while in the net. The trap isn't what makes Martin Brodeur a good keeper; the trap's been around since the '50's and will be around for a while more. What makes Martin Brodeur great is that when the puck is dumped in, he handles it generally flawlessly. Puckhandling is the difference between multiple Cups and a Vezina and missing the playoffs completely.

~Crazed.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

I'd rather have a keeper that could do both. Do you remember Arturs Irbe when he was with the Sharks? Back then, he was "like wall" when in the net, but outside...shudder. Teams these days can and will dump the puck in on a poor puckhandling keeper to force them to play the puck. Thus, puckhandling is just as important as stopping the disk while in the net. The trap isn't what makes Martin Brodeur a good keeper; the trap's been around since the '50's and will be around for a while more. What makes Martin Brodeur great is that when the puck is dumped in, he handles it generally flawlessly. Puckhandling is the difference between multiple Cups and a Vezina and missing the playoffs completely.

~Crazed.

Personally i think Schwarz is a better "puck stopper" than Montoya or Dubnyk. He is flat out better at stoping the puck. If he cant handle the puck then so be it. Most goalies in Junior leagues cant anyway.

Look at Luongo and DiPietro. Luongo is the better puck stopper but mad Mike went for the guy that could do both but wasnt as good as stopping the puck.

Luongo learned to handle the puck, just like every goalie who makes the NHL.

 

[Hockeycrazed07]

I agree 100%. Just pointing out that puckhandling is important for a keeper. Dubnyk can be taught to react quicker in net, just as Schwartz can be taught to handle the rock.

You'll note that I haven't responded to this thread's original intent. I think all 3 will flop. Granted, I haven't seen any of them live, but I've seen a ton of tape, and none of them really seem like they'll do well in the NHL. Montoya is the closest, but he has limitations on his upside, and to play in the NHL, you can't have those. Schwartz is a slug. Dubnyk will be picked apart by NHL shooters. For such a supposedly strong year of keepers, this draft might be looked at as a catastrophe, if not for some great picks in the 2nd and 3rd.

~Crazed.

 

[SneakerPimp82]

I agree 100%. Just pointing out that puckhandling is important for a keeper. Dubnyk can be taught to react quicker in net, just as Schwartz can be taught to handle the rock.

You'll note that I haven't responded to this thread's original intent. I think all 3 will flop. Granted, I haven't seen any of them live, but I've seen a ton of tape, and none of them really seem like they'll do well in the NHL. Montoya is the closest, but he has limitations on his upside, and to play in the NHL, you can't have those. Schwartz is a slug. Dubnyk will be picked apart by NHL shooters. For such a supposedly strong year of keepers, this draft might be looked at as a catastrophe, if not for some great picks in the 2nd and 3rd.

~Crazed.

Schwarz is a slug? That statement alone more or less invalidates your opinion.

 

[ktownhockey]

All three are excellent prospects with good size and character....

NOW Montoya , Scwartz, Dubnyk
FUTURE Dubnyk, Montoyam Scwartz...

I really like Dubnyks size and how he came out of no where this year...

he really6 moved up the draft later this year... and I predict he'll be our starting goalie at the WJHC next season woooo!!!

 

[LaLaLaprise]

All three are excellent prospects with good size and character....

NOW Montoya , Scwartz, Dubnyk
FUTURE Dubnyk, Montoyam Scwartz...

I really like Dubnyks size and how he came out of no where this year...

he really6 moved up the draft later this year... and I predict he'll be our starting goalie at the WJHC next season woooo!!!

he didnt come out of no where. He was excellent at 16 in Kamloops.

Big goalies = overrated.

Dubnyk at best will be Sean Burke.

 

[guitaraholic*]

every single one of you that offers your opinions on these players should also come clean with how often (if ever) you've seen any of them play. Like I said before, most of you guys haven't seen these guys enough to make any kind of judgement. And none of you know any better than professional scouts and scouting services, IMO. Sorry, don't mean to be rude, just being honest.

 

[guitaraholic*]

I haven't seen any of these goalies play at any real length, but the Cannuck scouts had Dubnyk and Schwarz ranked evenly based on this quote from cannucks.com.

http://www.canucks.com/theinsider/default.asp?sectionID=5&id=1180
"According to Nonis, the Canucks had considered trading current assets to move up in the draft for a pick higher than their slotted 26th spot. It's impossible to say who they were looking at, but Delorme admits they had goaltenders Devan Dubnyk, Cory Schneider and Marek Schwarz all rated equally. Dubnyk went 14th overall to Edmonton while Schwarz went 17th to St. Louis."

I'm assuming they had Montoya first, but Schwarz obviously wasn't the consensus top netminder, or even 2nd as far as individual team's scouts were concerned.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that "they" had Montoya first, etc? The article specifically states they were ALL RANKED EQUALLY by the Canucks scouts.
And how you can assert that Schwarz "obviously" wasn't the consensus number one or two for any individual team's scout is also beyond me. As if you'd know what every team's individual scouts opinions were. give me a break...

 

[LaLaLaprise]

every single one of you that offers your opinions on these players should also come clean with how often (if ever) you've seen any of them play. Like I said before, most of you guys haven't seen these guys enough to make any kind of judgement. And none of you know any better than professional scouts and scouting services, IMO. Sorry, don't mean to be rude, just being honest.

I think HF would be dead if only people who have extensivly viewed every player could comment.

How many people can travel around to see these players numourous times?

 

[guitaraholic*]

I think HF would be dead if only people who have extensivly viewed every player could comment.

How many people can travel around to see these players numourous times?

and what is the value of someone's opinion if they haven't even seen the player in question play? You're kidding yourself if you think the opinion of someone who's never seen a player play even a single game is worth a damn. If you haven't seen these guys play, then you folks are doing nothing more than flapping your lips. None of your opinions are in the least bit valid or of any worth whatsoever if you've never seen the guys you're talking about play.

So, next time you have an opinion of a player you've never seen play, my response will pretty much consist of:

 

[LaLaLaprise]

and what is the value of someone's opinion if they haven't even seen the player in question play? You're kidding yourself if you think the opinion of someone who's never seen a player play even a single game is worth a damn. If you haven't seen these guys play, then you folks are doing nothing more than flapping your lips. None of your opinions are in the least bit valid or of any worth whatsoever if you've never seen the guys you're talking about play.

So, next time you have an opinion of a player you've never seen play, my response will pretty much consist of:

Can you read?

I said EXTENSIVLY! Like scouts. Most people on here have seen ALL of these guys play at least a couple times.

 

[guitaraholic*]

Can you read?

I said EXTENSIVLY! Like scouts. Most people on here have seen ALL of these guys play at least a couple times.

Can I read? Gee, I don't know, son. Can you be more childish?

And I doubt "most" posters here have seen ALL of these guys play at least a couple of times. Matter of fact I bet you've never seen Schwarz play. Still wouldn't stop you from offering up an opinion on something you pretty obviously have absolute no clue about. If that's what you're all about, go right ahead, kiddo.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

Can I read? Gee, I don't know, son. Can you be more childish?

And I doubt "most" posters here have seen ALL of these guys play at least a couple of times. Matter of fact I bet you've never seen Schwarz play. Still wouldn't stop you from offering up an opinion on something you pretty obviously have absolute no clue about. If that's what you're all about, go right ahead, kiddo.

Its not childish you just lack Comprehension. I said plain and simply that no one in here has seen these players EXTENSIVLY. Which means more than 3-5 times.

I have seen Schwarz. You dont know me so you should stop assuming.

Yeah i care what you think? I have my opinion and it doesnt look like too many people disagreed with it.

 

[CoolDude*]

1. Montoya
2. Schwarz
3. Dubnyk