'Moneypuck' players

[rent free]

So like players with good advanced stats but not a lot of points or so?

 

[Coffey]

See I don't even know who he is, and when you say Vegas I believe you.

I'd say that team was built that way

Not everyone had the pleasure of making a team with four 2nd lines,

 

[Psych0dad]

Not everyone had the pleasure of making a team with four 2nd lines,

That is true.

 

[OVrocks]

Brooks Orpik, he’s currently valued at a half eaten sandwich, but I think that his talent could fetch a stale donut.

 

[Fig]

Kris Russell?

Pros
- Decent PHD
- Shot blocking
- Relatively Durable
- Loyal
- Leadership

Cons
- Size
- Strength
- Low offence

Many will scoff, but he's not completely useless. He isn't an analytics darling though, and IMO since Chia overpaid him, he's not undervalued.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Kris Russell?

Pros
- Decent PHD
- Shot blocking
- Relatively Durable
- Loyal
- Leadership

Cons
- Size
- Strength
- Low offence

Many will scoff, but he's not completely useless. He isn't an analytics darling though, and IMO since Chia overpaid him, he's not undervalued.

Most Advanced stats hate him and he's probably overpaid as well. So he might be the opposite of a moneypuck player.

 

[Kale Hulls]

I thought Russel was before Chia overpaid him. I'd say most players that go undrafted and make the NHL are underpaid for most of their careers.

 

[BinCookin]

Some solid hockey traits that are not directly measured in stats:

1) "heavy", "grit", "tough" - Physical presence.
this is especially important in the playoffs, as a team with big hitter can injure (p.c. term is "wear down") the opponents.

(example: tom wilson, evander kane, Gudas)

2) Speed - Can draw penalties, Can tire opponents for another line to take advantage of. (obviously direct offense ffrom speed is measured in points stats

(Athanasiou, Grabner, McDavid)

3) Solid Board play - Probably measured in assists and corsi for forwards. But likely only measured in some degree for defencemen.

(I do not have a keen eye for this.. )

4) Consistent play / mistake free. - Very hard to actually measure this through any stat. Depends on player style and role.

(Example of the opposite of this: Brendan Smith - great advanced stats, but very prone to large mistakes that "coach infuriators")

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yeah they just ran the analysis over the available players and picked the best.

I love it, good on Vegas.

Their success is a strong testament of how important analytics is.

They came in with a fresh mindset and built a contender from numbers. It's beautiful.

Yes and no. Almost every single pick they made was who everyone expected. They simply took the best that was available to them. That's more on the team who exposed them rather than Vegas.

Now if they took more off the board picks and still stayed competitive I'd give them more credit. Like if Nosek (the one guy most didn't see coming) turned into a 30 goal scorer. Yet he has 12 points.

This is much more on incredible coaching, players having something to prove, and luck IMO.

 

[BinCookin]

p.s. in regards to "vegas" pulling off some kind of moneyball. I do not think they did that....

they targetted young players (improving in potential or at peak)
they targetted "no" bad contracts unless another team gave them a load of draft picks to take it.
they targetted draft picks from teams who needed to protect a star player, again this comes back to age usually.

 

[jetsforever]

I'd say Matthew Perreault would be a good one for that category. Just without checking stats.

And I think Vegas totally moneypucked a lot. That's why they are competitive immediately. I would have answered Erik Haula last season but Vegas proved that theory for me.

Perreault was the first guy I thought of - doesn't put up crazy numbers but has a huge contribution

Did somebody make an Evander Kane joke yet?

Second thing I thought of


For the Jets, maybe someone like Enstrom - doesn't score many points anymore but he's been one of our most consistently solid players for years now.

 

[ScottyK]

Stempniak?

 

[solidprospect]

Is difficult to figure out moneyball in hockey compared to baseball. I'd look at cost per point or something in the NHL. In Baseball it's more about measuring how many wins a player is worth and they haven't really figured out a way of doing that yet in the NHL, although I think some have tried.

 

[bossram]

Is difficult to figure out moneyball in hockey compared to baseball. I'd look at cost per point or something in the NHL. In Baseball it's more about measuring how many wins a player is worth and they haven't really figured out a way of doing that yet in the NHL, although I think some have tried.

There are some WAR-esque models out there for hockey. I think Manny Elk had one? Seemed reasonable, and broke the player's contributions down into inutitive categories like ES offense (shooting talent + shot attempts for), ES defense (shot attempts against), PP/PK value, penalty differential, etc.

 

[Fig]

Most Advanced stats hate him and he's probably overpaid as well. So he might be the opposite of a moneypuck player.

I meant before he was overpaid, he did on occasion seem to fit. He didn't have high marks in many of the typical categories, but always contributed quite a bit.

I do think you may enjoy this article though. I wonder if sometimes "money puck" is more issues with style fit rather than pure analytics due to significant differences in the sports allowing for individuality to bleed through more in hockey than in baseball.

The Box | By Jim Rutherford

 

[24 others]

I was looking for something a bit similar in this thread:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/swiss-army-knife-players.2389825/

Also, I highly approve of the use of advanced Corgis.

 

[Seanaconda]

Oilers don't have enough corgis

 

[Seanaconda]

So like players with good advanced stats but not a lot of points or so?

No a player that is a cute dog with a big butt

 

[Seanaconda]

Kris Russell?

Pros
- Decent PHD
- Shot blocking
- Relatively Durable
- Loyal
- Leadership

Cons
- Size
- Strength
- Low offence

Many will scoff, but he's not completely useless. He isn't an analytics darling though, and IMO since Chia overpaid him, he's not undervalued.

He is opposite of moneypuck. He's an advanced stats nightmare

I think op wants someone with great corsi but has had bad luck so would be cheap. Domi if he was cheaper . Or I guess e Kane. Someone that tilts the ice but can't score or is cheap for whatever reason

 

[Frosty415]

Chris Tierney

 

[Off Sides]

The non advanced stat version

Cost Per Point - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Kris Russell?

Pros
- Decent PHD
- Shot blocking
- Relatively Durable
- Loyal
- Leadership

Cons
- Size
- Strength
- Low offence

Many will scoff, but he's not completely useless. He isn't an analytics darling though, and IMO since Chia overpaid him, he's not undervalued.

Most of what you listed as "Pros" would make him a good guard dog, not a good moneypuck player.