Post-Game Talk: Monday Night @ 10 P.M. OTT vs VAN - Where The Boys Become Men (watch online, see OP)

BonkTastic

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Also, I know it’s pre season and it’s way to early to say this, but how the hell did we get Anisimov for Smith??

1) Anisimov's cap hit is $1.3 mil higher than Smith's (despite Anisimov costing $1.25 mil less than Smith in actual salary, due to Anisimov's bonus structure), and Chicago DESPERATELY needed to shed cap space

2) Chicago needed grit on their bottom-6, which is a role Anisimov doesn't really fill

3) apparently Marc Crawford, the new asst coach in Chicago, loves Smith so much he helped advocate for Smith to Bowman to make the deal (thanks Marc!).
 
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Icelevel

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Also, I know it’s pre season and it’s way to early to say this, but how the hell did we get Anisimov for Smith??
I like that trade too. Not expecting consistent excellence from anisimov but I was reeeeeal tired of seeing smith on the ice. Negative to neutral impact traded for neutral to positive impact.
 
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Sensmileletsgo

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1) Anisimov's cap hit is $1.3 mil higher than Smith's (despite Anisimov costing $1.25 mil less than Smith in actual salary, due to Anisimov's bonus structure), and Chicago DESPERATELY needed to shed cap space

2) Chicago needed grit on their bottom-6, which is a role Anisimov doesn't really fill

3) apparently Marc Crawford, the new asst coach in Chicago, loves Smith so much he helped advocate for Smith to Bowman to make the deal (thanks Marc!).
Ya I knew about reason 1 and 2, but didn’t know Marc was the assistant coach in Chicago and advocated for Smith.

It’s way too early to judge the trade but I really like it so far.
 
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Icelevel

During these difficult times...
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1) Anisimov's cap hit is $1.3 mil higher than Smith's (despite Anisimov costing $1.25 mil less than Smith in actual salary, due to Anisimov's bonus structure), and Chicago DESPERATELY needed to shed cap space

2) Chicago needed grit on their bottom-6, which is a role Anisimov doesn't really fill

3) apparently Marc Crawford, the new asst coach in Chicago, loves Smith so much he helped advocate for Smith to Bowman to make the deal (thanks Marc!).
Marc also said that Balcers will be a “force to be reckoned with” this year.
Hope he knows some things.
 
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InTkachukWeTrust

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Nov 10, 2013
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I feel bad for players trying to impress coaches during the pre-season. The hockey being played is just terrible and the officiating is even worse. The play is all over the place and I could completely understand why it would be hard to get into a rhythm, especially on the Sens who have far less talent than any other organization in the league.

I think most of the players I wanted to make the team (L. Brown & Batherson) will be sent to the AHL for the start of the season and once their game picks up, get a call-up to the big club. This is the perfect time for these 2 to work on their game and develop.

On the other hand I do think Balcer played well enough to get a spot on the opening night roster. He's done very well with a handful of different players and shows he wants it.

Embrace the tank boys
 
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jbeck5

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Jan 26, 2009
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Any highlights from the game? Only one I could find are goals from the Canucks
I haven't checked yet but usually NHL.com has every goal scored on their highlights. Sometimes they're not in the game highlights but have their individual highlight on the side.
 

Cosmix

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He needs to play hard through traffic, and try his best to not get hurt while doing so (or quite frankly, just be lucky in that regard, sometimes injuries are just freak luck anyways). I'm not saying he can't do it, either... Just saying that we haven't had a chance to see if he can do it at the NHL level yet.

He's an undersized winger, so he's going to have a target on his back on most nights at the NHL level as a guy who is more likely to cough up the puck if you go hard at him along the boards and in the corners, a guy who might be a weak link in that regard. He's a small rookie - he for sure is going to get tested by the vets in this league.

Balcers clearly has NHL skill, IMO. The make-or-break for him will be how he looks after 40 NHL games, because we know he's going to get physically tested early. How he responds to 3 months of NHL veterans trying to physically pressure the puck off him and target him in his own zone will be the true test of whether he's got a legit NHL career ahead of him, or whether he becomes a "cup of coffee" role player.

Balcers totally could be legit. For sure. I definitely am hoping he is. But IMO that's the last test ahead of him, and if he makes the big team out of camp, there's no way we'll know for sure until Christmas, probably.

Balcers might be a decent top 6 player eventually; however he will not be playing with many true top 6 players this season as the Senators have very few top 6 caliber players at this time because they traded the few they had away. This team sorely lacks top 6 centers who can maintain control of the puck and make other players better.
 

Cosmix

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That should be the line-up on opening night

Duclair-Anisimov-Ryan (vets taking off pressure from the kid line)
Tkachuk-White-Balcers
Ennis-Tierney-Brown
Abramov-Pageau-Boedker
Paul

Chabot-DeMelo
Brannstrom(Wolanin)-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Jaros
Borowiecki (C)

Anderson
Nilsson

Want to see more seasoning in the AHL for Brown, Batherson, Formenton, Norris, Davidsson, Lajoie... Take your time with them, cook them as much as possible.

Kinda worried about Chlapik, hasn't progressed a lot since 2018. Looks like a defensive center at the NHL level.

Paul is not having a good camp from what I've seen and it's make or break for him... If he can't be efficient as a 4th liner, he won't be able to stick on 1 team and will have to move around to get a few more chances.

Brannstrom needs more time too but with the Wolanin injury he may get some time with Ottawa.

Abramov has impressed me but his injury worries me as I think he had a concussion before and this latest one could be indicative of a weakness that will re-occur.

Paul might stay due to his size, skating, maturity and waiver eligibility; but his time in the NHL will be short unless he starts to use his size to play a more physical game. He might be OK on a 4th line if he can add energy, physicality and play a defensive game including PK.
 

Xspyrit

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Yeah, I wonder about Chlapik’s future. I don’t think there was ever any intention for him to make the team out of camp. I just think they’ve held onto him the extent of time that they have so that coach gets to know him as a player, because he’s still quite young, and a second rounder from Ahite and Chabot’s draft year who’s shown promise in limited action but just can’t quite cut it. Paul’s done as far as I’m concerned. Kelly’s first training camp and he’s already surpassing him, which is why he’s still here, whereas Paul is just getting as much a chance as they can possibly give him due to his long known toolbox and potential if he could ever put it together. Doesn’t help he’s the last piece of the Spezza trade remaining, and I think subconsciously that still plays a role.

The Spezza return won't ever deliver but people have to stop thinking we should have gotten a ransom for him. His age and physical condition made him a prime candidate for a rapid decline, and that's exactly what happened 2-3 years after he got traded. Problem was that, not only he wanted a change of scenery, but he only had 1 year left and was due for a new contract which was going to end up as a mistake (unless it could have been for only 2 years, but that's not realistic). Ideally we would have gotten a better return but teams were not ready to do that (outside of Nashville but the trade was rejected) so in the end, it's a bit like if he was let go as a UFA (which frankly would have been fine). You can always tie yourself too long to every player because very few can stay at the top of their game going into their 30s.

Balcers might be a decent top 6 player eventually; however he will not be playing with many true top 6 players this season as the Senators have very few top 6 caliber players at this time because they traded the few they had away. This team sorely lacks top 6 centers who can maintain control of the puck and make other players better.

Sens have a lot of 2nd liners, but no 1st liner anymore (Stone and Duchene)

Ryan, Anisimov, Duclair, White, Tkachuk, Tierney all can do relatively well/ok in a top-6 role but none can put 1st line numbers (outside maybe Tkachuk but when?)

Balcers, Brown and Batherson could also possibly be 2nd liners right away but doubt they'd be able to be 1st liners right away

Ennis and maybe Connor Brown could also produce if given the right opportunity but are more 2nd/3rd line tweeners.

Pageau, Boedker can't see them be more than 3rd liners at this point in time. Hard to tell regarding Abramov but doubt he could be a top-6 forward right away. Same with Davidsson, Norris, etc, the rest all need more time to develop. Chlapik and Paul will struggle to just make the line-up

So no choice to have two 2nd lines, a 3rd line and a 4th line. Balcers seems more pro polished than Brown and Batherson who are very important prospects so I'd take more time with them. That's why I am putting Balcers in a top-9/top-6 role

Duclair-Anisimov-Ryan
Tkachuk-White-Balcers
Ennis-Tierney-Brown
Abramov-Pageau-Boedker
Paul

They can make 3 decent lines but none will be at a 1st line level, so it's more offense by committee, no choice after trading our best players.
 

JD1

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So the highlights showed no Senators goals and the barrage of Vancouver PP goals.

Then in the fine print, I noticed we put 43 shots on Markstrom, and outshot the Canucks?

Ya I saw that too...typical TSN...I just laugh at it.
 

JD1

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He needs to play hard through traffic, and try his best to not get hurt while doing so (or quite frankly, just be lucky in that regard, sometimes injuries are just freak luck anyways). I'm not saying he can't do it, either... Just saying that we haven't had a chance to see if he can do it at the NHL level yet.

He's an undersized winger, so he's going to have a target on his back on most nights at the NHL level as a guy who is more likely to cough up the puck if you go hard at him along the boards and in the corners, a guy who might be a weak link in that regard. He's a small rookie - he for sure is going to get tested by the vets in this league.

Balcers clearly has NHL skill, IMO. The make-or-break for him will be how he looks after 40 NHL games, because we know he's going to get physically tested early. How he responds to 3 months of NHL veterans trying to physically pressure the puck off him and target him in his own zone will be the true test of whether he's got a legit NHL career ahead of him, or whether he becomes a "cup of coffee" role player.

Balcers totally could be legit. For sure. I definitely am hoping he is. But IMO that's the last test ahead of him, and if he makes the big team out of camp, there's no way we'll know for sure until Christmas, probably.

Did you some how miss the 36 games Balcers played in the NHL last year?
 

BonkTastic

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Did you some how miss the 36 games Balcers played in the NHL last year?

No, I'm just not giving full credit for games played against teams who, at that point in the season when Balcers got his call-up, either weren't taking us seriously to begin with because we were significantly neutered going into (and then past) the trade deadline, and they were already looking past us to the next game against an actual important opponent... Or against teams that were similarly also decidedly out of the playoffs, like us, and just playing out the stretch in an otherwise meaningless season.

Rookie games at the end of a lost season aren't remotely as valuable as ones before Christmas, IMO. The stakes are far lower, the competition isn't 100% engaged. It's not quite the same.
 
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JD1

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No, I'm just not giving full credit for games played against teams who, at that point in the season when Balcers got his call-up, either weren't taking us seriously to begin with because we were significantly neutered going into (and then past) the trade deadline, and they were already looking past us to the next game against an actual important opponent... Or against teams that were similarly also decidedly out of the playoffs, like us, and just playing out the stretch in an otherwise meaningless season.

Rookie games at the end of a lost season aren't remotely as valuable as ones before Christmas, IMO. The stakes are far lower, the competition isn't 100% engaged. It's not quite the same.

Iirc Balcers was called up in January

In a league where the games get notoriously HARDER as the season progresses as teams battle for playoff position, you want to dismiss him having played the back half of the year in harder games in favour of how he looks in the first half of the year? Alright. Suit yourself.
 

aragorn

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Zaitsev is much better than Ceci from what I can tell right now. He has much better vision and is a lot calmer with the puck.

I find it interesting that Ottawa makes a trade for a right shot defenceman to play with Chabot in Zaitsev but never tried Ceci in that spot which I advocated for a while. I also find it interesting that the stinking Leafs trade for Ceci to play on their top pairing with Reilly when the stinking Leafs are suppose to be such a good playoff bound team. What do they know or don't know? And to add to that people here kept pointing out how terrible Ceci's stats were for the analytic crowd & yet the team that is suppose to be all in on analytics is the team that trades for him. :huh:

Hockey can be a funny business at times, but it should be interesting to see which one of these two guys has a better season, although I imagine Zaitsev will get a lot of leeway given he plays for such a terrible team. Oh wait, Ceci used to play for this same terrible team ... hummm? Never mind. :facepalm:
 

aragorn

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Also, I know it’s pre season and it’s way to early to say this, but how the hell did we get Anisimov for Smith??
A big soft floater for a hard nosed grinder who is so much better defensively, harder to play against & also much better at taking faceoffs. I guess it's better than nothing & Anisimov may be able to return something when they finally get tired of him floating around.
 

Do Make Say Think

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Iirc Balcers was called up in January

In a league where the games get notoriously HARDER as the season progresses as teams battle for playoff position, you want to dismiss him having played the back half of the year in harder games in favour of how he looks in the first half of the year? Alright. Suit yourself.

Who said anything about dismissing....

It is an asterisk: no one took us seriously last year, this made Balcers' life just a little easier.

Good skater, smart and nice hands but he is a perimetre player. He reminds me of Silfverberg actually.
 

BonkTastic

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Iirc Balcers was called up in January

In a league where the games get notoriously HARDER as the season progresses as teams battle for playoff position, you want to dismiss him having played the back half of the year in harder games in favour of how he looks in the first half of the year? Alright. Suit yourself.

I'm not dismissing anything.

All I said is I want to see how he reacts after playing ~40 games from now until Christmas.

You are well within your right to choose whatever sample size you want to make your own evaluation. How you see 30ish meaningless games in a season that was already lost by the time he got here, on a team that was highly in flux, with two separate head coaches, the bulk of the skilled roster jetissoned in early February, and playoff contenders consistently starting their backup goalies and sub-par lineups against us and not taking games against us seriously, is your business. You do you, man. Have at it.
 
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Micklebot

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Iirc Balcers was called up in January

In a league where the games get notoriously HARDER as the season progresses as teams battle for playoff position, you want to dismiss him having played the back half of the year in harder games in favour of how he looks in the first half of the year? Alright. Suit yourself.

eh, lots of players have looked better as callups on eliminated teams and gone on to never live up to that 20-30 games stretch. Regin, Butler, Greening, Condra all come to mind from a sens perspective.

Balcers looks promising, but he's still got lots to prove. Last year's performance comes with the context of zero pressure, and likely playing in a greater role than he normally would. Other teams might have been playing at their best at that point in the year, but ours wasn't and games may have out of reach early
 
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Sensmileletsgo

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A big soft floater for a hard nosed grinder who is so much better defensively, harder to play against & also much better at taking faceoffs. I guess it's better than nothing & Anisimov may be able to return something when they finally get tired of him floating around.
Damn, I didn’t know he was such a floater. I wonder if he’s a bit like Bobby Ryan, a talented player who’s lost a step and isn’t nearly as effective anymore. At least he has some offensive tools and can make hockey plays out there which Smith wasn’t good at.
 

BonkTastic

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eh, lots of players have looked better as callups on eliminated teams and gone on to never live up to that 20-30 games stretch. Regin, Butler, Greening, Condra all come to mind from a sens perspective.

Balcers looks promising, but he's still got lots to prove. Last year's performance comes with the context of zero pressure, and likely playing in a greater role than he normally would. Other teams might have been playing at their best at that point in the year, but ours wasn't and games may have out of reach early

Thank you. Yes.

Exactly this.

You'd think I was calling the guy a career AHLer or something, jeez.
 

Boud

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I find it interesting that Ottawa makes a trade for a right shot defenceman to play with Chabot in Zaitsev but never tried Ceci in that spot which I advocated for a while. I also find it interesting that the stinking Leafs trade for Ceci to play on their top pairing with Reilly when the stinking Leafs are suppose to be such a good playoff bound team. What do they know or don't know? And to add to that people here kept pointing out how terrible Ceci's stats were for the analytic crowd & yet the team that is suppose to be all in on analytics is the team that trades for him. :huh:

Hockey can be a funny business at times, but it should be interesting to see which one of these two guys has a better season, although I imagine Zaitsev will get a lot of leeway given he plays for such a terrible team. Oh wait, Ceci used to play for this same terrible team ... hummm? Never mind. :facepalm:

The Leafs did this trade for 1 reason and that reason is they wanted to get rid of Zaitsev's long term contract with the young upcoming defensemen that they have and the cap crunch they're facing and more importantly the ones they'll be facing in the upcoming years. Going forward it wouldn't be surprising to see them try to sign one of Barrie/Muzzin and then they'll have Rielly, Dermott, Liljegren, Sandin who are all solid players. There was clearly no spot for Zaitsev and there is also no spot for Ceci, it's not like they added him for the long term. All in all, the Leafs wanted to avoid being stuck with Zaitsev if he had another bad season, while Ceci only has a year left and is still gonna be RFA.

That means that the Leafs can choose to get rid of him at year-end, or even at the deadline, after pumping his value playing him with Rielly like they did with Phaneuf a couple years back. If it works, it's a free asset in the summer or at the deadline, if it doesn't well it only cost them Zaitsev and Brown - two players they weren't able to keep given their small importance to the team and their relatively high salary.

This trade has nothing to do with analytics, Ceci could very well be out of the top 4 as well if he doesn't play well when Dermott comes back. Also DJ Smith made a reference to Zaitsev "going through some things" in Toronto. Surely seems like he could've used a change of scenery himself as well.
 

DaveMatthew

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A big soft floater for a hard nosed grinder who is so much better defensively, harder to play against & also much better at taking faceoffs. I guess it's better than nothing & Anisimov may be able to return something when they finally get tired of him floating around.

Smith has been floating since he scored 25 goals and started to consider himself an offensive player, as well.

We traded a floater with a lower cap hit for a floater with a lower salary. I bet neither team would have been upset both guys just never showed up to camp...
 

Sensmileletsgo

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Smith has been floating since he scored 25 goals and started to consider himself an offensive player, as well.

We traded a floater with a lower cap hit for a floater with a lower salary. I bet neither team would have been upset both guys just never showed up to camp...
There’s a lot of holes in Smith’s games and a lot of things I would call him, but a floater isn’t one of them.
 
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