Modern Baseball (Today's MLB), do you like it?

[BudRobinson53]

A question for the Baseball fans, new and old to the game, do you like what I would call Modern Baseball?

I'll bring in 3 identifiers and a recent rule change and I'm sure there's 30 more others would chime in with.
- Openers & Starters who expect to pitch less than 5 innings
- Defensive Shifts
- Launch Angle + hitters no longer hitting for average (the .183, 150 strikeouts, but 35 bombs era)

- Recent Rule Change, pitchers facing a minimum of 3 batters in the same inning

What are your thoughts on these?

For me, I love the MLB and my loyalty is due to years past, starting in the Late 80's (Bluejays rise to prominence).

I do not like Modern Baseball, I believe the talent level (pitching wise) has never been greater, but I do NOT understand the implementation of Japanese Baseball with pitchers being asked to open, piggy back etc. I could understand it in the past when there was an injury to a starter and as such you had a "bullpen game". But, I don't like the planned pulling of a pitcher who is a) pitching well to that point b) put in place to only go a few innings through the lineup one time, to have another pitcher do the same afterwards.

Defensive shifts to me fall into the category of hitters no longer hitting for average. I loved what Rod Carew and Tony Gywnn could do at the plate, but still felt back then that you wouldn't want 8 of these guys in your lineup. You need a good balance of hitting and power in the MLB. However, today, there are way too many guys hitting below .200, yet generating power numbers. I get it when there is a pitcher or a light hitting shortstop behind you and your team needs a 3 run homer. I don't get not trying to choke up, get a soft single and let the guy behind you work the pitcher, when your in the early innings and the game hasn't been decided. I'm not from the small ball school of bunting to move runners over either, but I feel today's game really lacks the art of hitting to all fields and to the situation.

Lastly, on the rule change - they need to speed the games up, but that starts with forcing pitchers and hitters back on the mound and in the batters box "x" amount of time after the last pitch. I was dumbfounded this year when they forced relievers to face 3 batters. Do force this in innings 1 -6, but certainly not 7- 9 and onwards... It's great to have a specialty reliever to come in for 1 -2 batters, almost nightly, that is a good part of the game and worth the time running in from the bullpen and warming up.

Anyways, a penny for your thoughts.

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[BigBadBruins7708]

The shift bothers me the most, for me its like the peak of the trap days in the NHL.

There needs to be a limit on how much a player can shift. Something like the SS and 2B cant cross 2nd base before the pitch

I also hate the "3 outcome" approach to modern batting. K, BB, HR only is boring baseball. No one cuts down with 2 strikes to get a hit anymore, or tries to shoot gaps, or hits to other sides of the field to move runners up.

The speed of the game is fine. Speeding up the game wont make someone who doesnt like baseball suddenly like it.

The average MLB game is 3 hours 5 minutes
The average NFL game is 3 hours 12 minutes

The biggest cause of MLB game time is the pitching approach you mentioned. The bullpen game approach adds more time than hitters/pitchers between pitches. Each pitching change is at least 5 minutes between warm ups and the commercial break

 

[Vamos Rafa]

I still hold the batting average somewhat valuable but I immediately have to look at the player’s OBP to see how reliant his OBP is on the BA.

 

[Terry Yake]

the shift sucks when it goes against your team and great when it helps. but there's really nothing that can be done about it unless they specifically outline where on the field each position can play. and that'll just be one big mess

i'm fine with the runner on 2nd to start extras rule and i really hope the NL finally adopts the DH. just don't bring back the 7 inning doubleheaders and i'll be happy

 

[Cas]

I'd rather watch snails sleep.

Put a buzzer in the stadium, tie it to the instant the ball hits the pitcher's glove, and if the ball isn't in the air within twenty seconds, the buzzer calls it a ball. The batter steps outside the box, call a strike.

Pitching changes aren't driving the slowdown of the sport - the problem is time between pitches. Receive the ball, throw the ball, and stay in the damn box.

I'd also love to push the fences out 10-15 feet and/or deaden the ball a little (one idea I've seen is increasing the size and weight of the ball and flattening the seams - less speed, harder to break, but doesn't travel as far when hit). Reduces the value of power and puts more emphasis on speed in the outfield. Unfortunately, bigger parks is not going to happen, though changes to the ball are at least conceivable.

 

[CTHabsfan]

The speed of the game is fine. Speeding up the game wont make someone who doesnt like baseball suddenly like it.

The average MLB game is 3 hours 5 minutes
The average NFL game is 3 hours 12 minutes

There's a big difference between spending 3 hours 12 minutes watching one game per week, as opposed to watching six 3 hour 5 minute games per week.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I'm fine with it. I hate the new 3 batter minimum and I'm going to hate the DH in the NL initially but will get used to it.

Annoyed with the amount of strikeouts somewhat. The shift doesn't really bother me.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I absolutely love baseball. Always will. It’s my 1B to my hockey 1A.

And I’m going to sound like a fossil, but I hate modern baseball in the respect of:

— It is over-managed and overly reliant on analytics. Analytics has sucked the life out of the sport. I do not care about WAR nor have any use for it when discussing players, both current and past. I don’t mind my pitcher going 7+, throwing 115 pitches, and facing a lineup more than twice through.

— The shift is just odd to see. I wish these pro hitters sprayed the ball better to circumvent the shift.

— Openers and piggybacking just seems so stupid. Flat out. I get the latter later in the season to preserve arms. But in Game 78 in late June? Get out of here.

I don’t mind a bunt. Don’t mind players hitting for average. Don’t mind having a mix of players in your lineup instead of trying to conform them into a similar mix.

I never found baseball games boring or long, in that all these rules need to be put in place to try and speed it up. Sure, some games are a drag, but that goes with anything you enjoy at times. The beauty of baseball is the nuances, the strategy, there being no time limit unlike every other sport, each pitch counting especially come playoff time.

The beauty of the game has lost its lustre. And forget about trying to lure the young generation — they don’t have the attention span for more than a few minutes for anything, anymore. Stop alienating your long term fan base for a fan base that’ll never be there.

 

[Hockeyholic]

The shift bothers me the most, for me its like the peak of the trap days in the NHL.

There needs to be a limit on how much a player can shift. Something like the SS and 2B cant cross 2nd base before the pitch

I also hate the "3 outcome" approach to modern batting. K, BB, HR only is boring baseball. No one cuts down with 2 strikes to get a hit anymore, or tries to shoot gaps, or hits to other sides of the field to move runners up.

The speed of the game is fine. Speeding up the game wont make someone who doesnt like baseball suddenly like it.

The average MLB game is 3 hours 5 minutes
The average NFL game is 3 hours 12 minutes

The biggest cause of MLB game time is the pitching approach you mentioned. The bullpen game approach adds more time than hitters/pitchers between pitches. Each pitching change is at least 5 minutes between warm ups and the commercial break

I hate pitchers who take forever to deliver a pitch. And batters who take forever to get in the box.

It should be fixed.

Pitcher doesn't set in 20 seconds, with batter in box, should = a ball for the batter.

Batter doesn't get in box for 20 seconds, with pitcher set, should = pitcher being able to throw a strike with him out of the box. Or a strike on the batter.

No TV timeouts during a pitching change. A pitcher can get all his warm-ups in the pen.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

There's a big difference between spending 3 hours 12 minutes watching one game per week, as opposed to watching six 3 hour 5 minute games per week.

That's my point. Shaving 10 minutes off the game with gimmicks won't make a difference to someone who doesn't like the game. And will just make existing fans angry.

If you like it you'll invest the time into a season, if you don't you won't whether the games are 3:05 or 2:45 long

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

My biggest problem is definitely what has become of starting pitching. When you grow up watching guys like Pedro, Halladay, Schilling, Johnson, Maddux, Glavine, Mussina, etc who were seemingly locks to go at least 7 innings every start, it's hard to understand why we are where we are. The quick hooks because of the horror of a pitcher facing an order for a 3rd time. See the Snell decision from today. Just way too much overthinking things.

 

[BudRobinson53]

My biggest problem is definitely what has become of starting pitching. When you grow up watching guys like Pedro, Halladay, Schilling, Johnson, Maddux, Glavine, Mussina, etc who were seemingly locks to go at least 7 innings every start, it's hard to understand why we are where we are. The quick hooks because of the horror of a pitcher facing an order for a 3rd time. See the Snell decision from today. Just way too much overthinking things.

This. It's one thing to ask Cy Young (and pitchers of his time) to pitch both games (completely) of a double-header that day, but Modern Baseball has gone too far the other way in letting guys pitch 2-3 innings. AJ Burnett, Randy Johnson, Schilling etc. etc. had no problem throwing hard and deep into games. To me, it's part of the game and the reason you pay starters.

Honestly, though I despise it, I can likely live a full and healthy life if a few teams like Tampa Bay employ this system, but I shudder thinking that this is going to become the new model to copy for other franchises.

 

[Unholy Diver]

I am a borderline "old guy - get off my lawn" type in my mid 40's so I am not terribly thrilled with the direction the sport has taken in the last several years, Don't have a huge issue with the openers, though I do wish starters were allowed to go a bit longer into games, not a big fan of the shifting and complete reliance on the analytics but I do understand the thought process as to why they do it. I am also not a big fan of the "3 true outcomes" style, the games to me seem much more dull with the ball getting put into play a lot less than it used to.

This is a double whammy as a Pirates fan, the Pirates have been a train wreck again and terrible to watch so combined with the "modern game" it has been that much worse. I still watch most games, and have probably watched more of this years playoffs than I have in a few years, though it hasn't been all that exciting.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

This. It's one thing to ask Cy Young (and pitchers of his time) to pitch both games (completely) of a double-header that day, but Modern Baseball has gone too far the other way in letting guys pitch 2-3 innings. AJ Burnett, Randy Johnson, Schilling etc. etc. had no problem throwing hard and deep into games. To me, it's part of the game and the reason you pay starters.

Honestly, though I despise it, I can likely live a full and healthy life if a few teams like Tampa Bay employ this system, but I shudder thinking that this is going to become the new model to copy for other franchises.

The biggest issue is the start length goes beyond the MLB.

Kids today are so limited by rules on how much they can pitch that they never learn how to pace themselves.

The pitch count limits have also spread (officially and unofficially) to HS, Legion, College ball too. So you now have pros who never threw big workloads and can't do it safely.

It's also why every pitcher seems to have at least 1 Tommy John by 25 now...they didn't throw heavy loads growing up so they never built up any endurance

 

[Cas]

The biggest issue is the start length goes beyond the MLB.

Kids today are so limited by rules on how much they can pitch that they never learn how to pace themselves.

The pitch count limits have also spread (officially and unofficially) to HS, Legion, College ball too. So you now have pros who never threw big workloads and can't do it safely.

It's also why every pitcher seems to have at least 1 Tommy John by 25 now...they didn't throw heavy loads growing up so they never built up any endurance

Pitchers today throw too hard because it's known how much less effective pitchers are a third time through the order, so there's no reason to "pace themselves" because they're going to get yanked in the sixth inning anyway. You also can't pace yourself when even the backup shortstop would hit double digits home runs every year if he played enough.

Pitch counts aren't causing that - more knowledge is doing that, and you can't put the genie back into the lamp once it's been rubbed.

I don't see any way to change this, either - lack of effectiveness after eighteen batters isn't going to change even if you dampen offense significantly.

I would like to see fewer anonymous relievers paraded around. Reducing the effectiveness of relievers who throw stupidly hard but are totally indistinguishable might be possible by changing the ball and speeding up the game, but I think you're going to have to change roster and waiver rules to really have an impact (something like you can only send a player down once per season, regardless of their service time, or limiting the number of eligible pitchers on the roster).

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Changes in strategy regarding pitchers don't really bother me per se. I think it's stupid when the manager pulls a pitcher who is doing well just because it's the third time through the order, but in a way that's no different than Grady Little blowing game 7 by leaving Pedro in too long in a previous era. Dumb shit is always going to happen.

It's these hitters that have ruined the entertainment value for me. Strikeouts are not ok. They're the worst sin you can commit as a hitter. Guys going up there and swinging for the fences when there's men on 2nd and 3rd and nobody out drives me insane. Just choke up and put the damn ball in play! Seeing entire teams with nobody hitting over .250 is insane.

I don't mind guys drawing a walk, but strikeouts and solo home runs are just not entertaining to me. Bunting and base stealing are. Baseball used to be a sport that I'd watch random games with no rooting interest. Not anymore.

 

[FiveTacos]

There's a big difference between spending 3 hours 12 minutes watching one game per week, as opposed to watching six 3 hour 5 minute games per week.

Maybe I'm just showing my age, but the thing is you didn't used to be able to watch every game. You weren't really expected to even as a die hard, as the availability of every game on TV just didn't exist. Even for the few who had cable.

Even hardcore fans would maybe catch games on the radio in the background when they had a chance, perhaps watch one or two games that were actually on local TV a week. And if they were lucky a bonus game on a weekend matinee national broadcast. And before my time, even hardcore fans might only have radio and box scores most of the time, other than when they went to the game in person.

The ability to now literally watch any game any time makes it so that the time suck of following a team's every play becomes immense for baseball. A few decades ago, the maximum time investment that was even possible was a fraction of what it is now.

 

[Dr Salt]

Shifts suck when used against you, cool when you use them, and annoying when the opposing hitter actually finds the hole in the shift. The rule of three is tolerable, albeit there could be tweaks are needed. Do not bring back the man on second rule, and revert the playoffs to the 2012-19 format. The reality with current hitters is that it wins games especially when looking at OPS. It's not the most entertaining but I don't think you can fault teams for wanting a winning approach. That's the other thing I think people don't realize, while strikeouts are up, the move to hitters that could have some power is probably moving double plays down, which is an even bigger inning killer.

 

[MMC]

No, the Angels are complete shit every season