OT: MN High School Hockey Thread

[Bdub]

Minnesota

Internal national falls.
Warroad
Coleraine
Grand Raps
Hibbing
Delete east
Virginia
Woodland wells

Theft river Rapids
Alexandria
Rich Marshall
Roch mayo in feta
Bemidji
Owatanna
Hormel
Leech lake area

Jefferson
Kennedy
Burnsville
Apple Valley
Edina
Eden Prairie
South st Paul
Hastings

 

[57special]

Not a huge fan of:

A/AA
Twin City Suburbs
Privates

Minnesota HS Hockey has become a game for the priviledged.

Go Grand Rapids!

It's not just Minnesota, but all of the US, and most of Canada. Can't speak to Europe. The days of it being a game for the lower/middle class are long gone. Minnesota is actually more egalitarian than most states, where it costs a fortune to play hockey, as the ice time and travel costs are outrageous. Here you can travel one or two towns over to get a good game. Many other states you have to go one or two states over, if not more. In MA, you used to have good town based teams, but those days are long gone, with the best players going to expensive Academies.

In other words, it might not be great here, but it's more expensive other places.

 

[Al Lagoon]

It's not just Minnesota, but all of the US, and most of Canada. Can't speak to Europe. The days of it being a game for the lower/middle class are long gone. Minnesota is actually more egalitarian than most states, where it costs a fortune to play hockey, as the ice time and travel costs are outrageous. Here you can travel one or two towns over to get a good game. Many other states you have to go one or two states over, if not more. In MA, you used to have good town based teams, but those days are long gone, with the best players going to expensive Academies.

In other words, it might not be great here, but it's more expensive other places.

Nice post 57. So are you telling me the days of taping National Geographic to my legs as shinpads and chopper mitts as gloves are over?

 

[57special]

Nice post 57. So are you telling me the days of taping National Geographic to my legs as shinpads and chopper mitts as gloves are over?

Dad, what are you doing posting on here?

 

[BigT2002]

Not a huge fan of:

A/AA
Twin City Suburbs
Privates

Minnesota HS Hockey has become a game for the priviledged.

Go Grand Rapids!

Totally get your perspective, but it is no different than:

Football in Texas
Lacrosse in Virginia/New England
Baseball in Florida
Basketball in Indiana

Hockey is “the sport” for kids in Minnesota. Even states like Illinois and Michigan that claim to be hotbeds do not see the turnout that Minnesota does. For many parents it’s a dual edge attempt at glory + bragging rights.

The issue is how many of these programs are ran. There is a reason so many USHL teams border Minnesota. There is a reason Northern 1A schools cried foul at Luverne since they were in the “basketball hotbed” with no direct competition + Sioux Falls to poach off of. There is a reason the blue bloods (in any sport) seem to get a star kid from out of state that is staying “Uncle Joe and Aunt Cathy” for a year.

It’s win/win for the schools to let it happen. Hope you get a TJ Oshie who donates $XXX thousands for a new complex or weight room so they don’t have to pay for it (or raise taxes). Notoriety sticks to the school and keeps the cycle going.

 

[Northerner]

Minnesota HS Hockey has become a game for the priviledged.
!

Define "privilege"...

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Define "privilege"...

Ability to afford expensive equipment and ice time?

 

[Northerner]

I think we could get really subjective when it comes to that. For example, a two-income family might be able to provide for their children (everything they need), but hockey might not be a priority, so they don't put Johnny into hockey (even though in theory they could afford it).


What does an average year cost a family to put their kid through hockey in MN anyways these days? I have heard numbers thrown around through the years (I actually heard once that it cost $10K to put a kid through Bloomington Jefferson back in the day - though that might have been just someone pulling my chain).

 

[BigT2002]

I think we could get really subjective when it comes to that. For example, a two-income family might be able to provide for their children (everything they need), but hockey might not be a priority, so they don't put Johnny into hockey (even though in theory they could afford it).


What does an average year cost a family to put their kid through hockey in MN anyways these days? I have heard numbers thrown around through the years (I actually heard once that it cost $10K to put a kid through Bloomington Jefferson back in the day - though that might have been just someone pulling my chain).

There is a lot of "it depends" waned into that question though. It varies based on location and prestige of the hockey program. Not to mention position. If you plan on putting your kid into a blue blood program + positional considerations, you better be ready to shell out the money to get them into traveling hockey programs and development camps. The level of competition begins pretty quickly from what I've seen with youth programs. Not to mention the coveted Varsity program you're trying to get your child into through said training/practice times.

I've seen Soccer camps cost upward to $6k. I'm sure hockey is even more north of that varying on WHAT and WHO is providing the training/practice.

 

[Northerner]

There is a lot of "it depends" waned into that question though. It varies based on location and prestige of the hockey program. Not to mention position. If you plan on putting your kid into a blue blood program + positional considerations, you better be ready to shell out the money to get them into traveling hockey programs and development camps. The level of competition begins pretty quickly from what I've seen with youth programs. Not to mention the coveted Varsity program you're trying to get your child into through said training/practice times.

I've seen Soccer camps cost upward to $6k. I'm sure hockey is even more north of that varying on WHAT and WHO is providing the training/practice.

Maybe it isn't just a hockey thing. Maybe it's a sports thing in general.

Want your kid to hit the lottery for you in:

Tennis
Golf
Soccer
Hockey
Baseball
Basketball

...you had better be ready to shell out the money. I don't know if I necessarily subscribe to the idea that hockey is some elitist game. If your kid really wants to play hockey in MN, and you're a loving parent and hard worker, I think you'll find a way to get your kid into the game.


I would argue Dustin Byfuglien wasn't "privileged" (from what I have read about him over the years, it was just his mother who raised him), but his mother figured out a way to get him toe the top of the hockey world. I bet there are numerous other examples. There is a kid I grew up with here on the East Side who went on to D1 and played pro thereafter for many years, and I know for a fact his divorced parents weren't well-off at all.

 

[BigT2002]

Maybe it isn't just a hockey thing. Maybe it's a sports thing in general.

Want your kid to hit the lottery for you in:

Tennis
Golf
Soccer
Hockey
Baseball
Basketball

...you had better be ready to shell out the money. I don't know if I necessarily subscribe to the idea that hockey is some elitist game. If your kid really wants to play hockey in MN, and you're a loving parent and hard worker, I think you'll find a way to get your kid into the game.

It absolutely is pretty much any sport at this point. It feels like gone are the days when you had 3-sport athletes. When I was in High School, boys played different fall/winter/spring sports. Summer was spent playing intramural (usually basketball) sports. Now, I've seen parents put their kids in one "main" sport to do for school/traveling team. Then they get to do others as rec if they want. For example, Golf is a great transitional game to get hockey players into. Many goalies I've known were tennis players because of hand-eye coordination. But none of them played it at the "elite level" for their school. It was purely there for entertainment.

You are absolutely right as well, that you'll find a way. There are more than enough leagues to get them to play. The difference is if they end up playing Varsity for Wayzata as opposed to a rec league at the local community center. That difference, at least in the TC:Metro, compared to Greater Minnesota.

I would argue Dustin Byfuglien wasn't "privileged" (from what I have read about him over the years, it was just his mother who raised him), but his mother figured out a way to get him toe the top of the hockey world. I bet there are numerous other examples. There is a kid I grew up with here on the East Side who went on to D1 and played pro thereafter for many years, and I know for a fact his divorced parents weren't well-off at all.

Absolutely. There are 100% outliers who achieve their goals. However, I would solicit a big reason for Buff getting those chances was his size. If he had been 5'10 and 155lbs, his life is probably a bit different. Also, his stepfather was a pro hockey player. He certainly was not well off, but it was also a different time back then too.

 

[2Pair]

Nothing has changed about Minnesota hockey other than the fact that the money lives in different cities now. You don't need to be rich to become a good hockey player in Minnesota, but like everything else in life, having money obviously isn't going to make it harder.

 

[BigT2002]

Nothing has changed about Minnesota hockey other than the fact that the money lives in different cities now. You don't need to be rich to become a good hockey player in Minnesota, but like everything else in life, having money obviously isn't going to make it harder.

Well said my friend.

 

[Northerner]

Apparently HM and Hermantown both have to quarantine their rosters because the teams were exposed (to you know what).


Apparently, Hermantown is going to try using their JV roster, plus three players (apparently) that weren'texposed (to you know what). Of Hermantown's three Varsity players, their leading scorer wasn't exposed. Strange that their leading scorer wasn't exposed.


No. 1-seed Hermantown boys’ hockey hit by COVID, to play state quarterfinal with junior varsity players

In case of paywall:

COVID Imperils Boys State Hockey Tourney Chances Of Hermantown, Hill-Murray

 

[Northerner]

First time I missed the 4AA final in at least 20 years. Usually head to Mariucci for 2AA and 6AA final as well. First time in 14 years we won’t be at State.

Saw Gentry Academy play Blake. They are very good. You can tell these guys practice twice a day. Passes right on the tape.

So was the school just created to churn out hockey players? How does that work? I am not familiar with the school, I just drive past it on occasion when I'm in that area.


I think it's quite disgusting that a school would just be created for the purpose of having an all-star team in any given sport.

Personally think that opposing teams should just goon it up as much as possible against such a team. Just go out there and be as brutal as humanly possible against said teams if they are just created to win by stacking their teams.

 

[GordieGallant]

So was the school just created to churn out hockey players? How does that work? I am not familiar with the school, I just drive past it on occasion when I'm in that area.


I think it's quite disgusting that a school would just be created for the purpose of having an all-star team in any given sport.

Personally think that opposing teams should just goon it up as much as possible against such a team. Just go out there and be as brutal as humanly possible against said teams if they are just created to win by stacking their teams.

It’s all about puffed up parents with stars in their eyes and deep pockets. Nothing but the best for little Johnny.
I think the answer is let them play the regular season as it is now. Come section time they the private schools have their own tournament.
Why should a public school have to go through Hill, Gentry, St. Thomas etc. basically all star teams every year to advance?

 

[Prior]

It’s all about puffed up parents with stars in their eyes and deep pockets. Nothing but the best for little Johnny.
I think the answer is let them play the regular season as it is now. Come section time they the private schools have their own tournament.
Why should a public school have to go through Hill, Gentry, St. Thomas etc. basically all star teams every year to advance?

Because sports are more fun when you push yourself and compete against the best? That’s how you get better after all.

And that’s coming from someone who played on a small school team that had to go through several private schools to get to the tournament, one in state, ultimately losing to what was the best small public school in the championship game.

 

[NHL1674]

Hill-Murray is out. Ya hate to see it.

 

[57special]

Because sports are more fun when you push yourself and compete against the best? That’s how you get better after all.

And that’s coming from someone who played on a small school team that had to go through several private schools to get to the tournament, one in state, ultimately losing to what was the best small public school in the championship game.

Yeah, but it's kind of tough when you look across on the other bench and you see the three best players from your town that you grew up with are playing for the deep pocketed private school that is kicking your ass.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Yeah, but it's kind of tough when you look across on the other bench and you see the three best players from your town that you grew up with are playing for the deep pocketed private school that is kicking your ass.

it’sa great lesson for kids. Life’s not fair; deal with it.
I went to No. St. Paul with a class of under 500. We had to go through WBL or Hill every year. Is it fair? No but it is what it is.

 

[Northerner]

Brody Lamb goes off for 6 last night to beat a JV Hermantown squad.

It’s all about puffed up parents with stars in their eyes and deep pockets. Nothing but the best for little Johnny.
I think the answer is let them play the regular season as it is now. Come section time they the private schools have their own tournament.
Why should a public school have to go through Hill, Gentry, St. Thomas etc. basically all star teams every year to advance?

Andthat's the way it was, up until 1974:

From 1949 - 1974, Minnesota private & Catholic high schools that iced hockey as a varsity sport were not allowed in the Minnesota State High School League, but rather played their own independent preperatory league schedule and Catholic Tournament to decide a season ending Champion.

Private School Tourney

How many privates are there anyways? If I had to guess, I would say 25-30? I really have no idea, but just thinking of teams in my head here in the TC (obviously Duluth, St. Cloud and Mankato have their own privates).

Like I have said before, let all teams (A, AA and privates) play their own state tourneys, then have them play each other at the very end to prove who is the best if they really want.

Hill-Murray is out. Ya hate to see it.

No real big fan of Hill here, but I hate this. Like a parent said on the news, it's criminal. You can go to the Mall of America elb0w-to-elbow with people but these extremely healthy kids are forced to sit out?


Big question: WHY doesn't WBL get to take their place? Didn't the NCAA basketball committee do this for their tournament? Have several teams on stand by to take a teams spot for Covid? Why shouldn't WBL get to take their place?


(To me, at this time, Hill Murray is the de facto St. Paul hockey club. They're basically on the East Side of St. Paul, and they stole so many great players from the publics here on the East Side over the years anyways, they might as well be known as the de facto St. Paul city club.)

 

[HotDish]

Talking about private schools recruiting. I remember back in high school a private school tried recruiting our coach's son. I just remember him ranting about how they had the audacity to assume that his team wasn't good enough for his son and that he would want to coach against his son instead.

 

[57special]

It's an ego trip for a teen when they are recruited by a private, or it was for mine. Parents, too, can get caught up in it just as badly, if not worse. My infatuation with it ended when I did the calculations on how long it would take to drive to the school(s) in question, and the bill for tuition.

 

[Minnewildsota]

It's an ego trip for a teen when they are recruited by a private, or it was for mine. Parents, too, can get caught up in it just as badly, if not worse. My infatuation with it ended when I did the calculations on how long it would take to drive to the school(s) in question, and the bill for tuition.

This was years ago, but the last I heard Hill's tuition was for a semester was $14,000 - Might as well send the kid to college

 

[57special]

Blake, Breck, and SPA are close to $30,000/yr. Minnehaha $20,000 or so. I would guess that Hill is at least that, or maybe the same as Blake. Don't know about Cretin. They destroy any chance of Highland ever being good at most sports, and have for years. I know a lot of people who were brought up there, and it's been that way forever, apparently. Same with Holy Angels and Richfield.

Edit...was curious, and looked up Hill. It is about half what the top three are, and similar to Cretin, and Holy Angels.