OT: MLSE to Acquire the Argos

[LeafFever]

MLSE own the Leafs, Raptors and TFC as well as their baby teams. Now it looks like they will acquire the Argos as well, good for the Argos.
I remember hearing somewhere sometime that MLB rules don't allow for an entity to own an MLB team along with other teams. MLSE cannot own the Jays.

Isn't that just other baseball teams and not in other leagues?

 

[MapleLeafistan]

Good...MLSE will give Argos some much needed marketing...this has been there biggest downfall IMO. Argos were incredibly stubborn and just refused to market themselves to the city...and the city eventually forgot about them. They need to bring some excitement around the Argos...maybe even push for exhibition matches with the Buffalo Bills and Detroit Lions.

Wouldn't mind seeing some exhibition matches between CFL and NFL teams...maybe even have a champions trophy like tournament. Top 2 CFL vs Top 4 NFL go head-to-head.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Good...MLSE will give Argos some much needed marketing...this has been there biggest downfall IMO. Argos were incredibly stubborn and just refused to market themselves to the city...and the city eventually forgot about them. They need to bring some excitement around the Argos...maybe even push for exhibition matches with the Buffalo Bills and Detroit Lions.

Wouldn't mind seeing some exhibition matches between CFL and NFL teams...maybe even have a champions trophy like tournament. Top 2 CFL vs Top 4 NFL go head-to-head.

Okay relax, The NFL’s worst team (Browns?) practice squad would beat the CFL all-stars.

 

[Al14]

Okay relax, The NFL’s worst team (Browns?) practice squad would beat the CFL all-stars.

I agree. Having witnessed first hand an American high school team annihilate one of our very best high school teams, playing our rules, I have to say that none of our CFL teams would not do well against an NFL team.

 

[MapleLeafistan]

Okay relax, The NFL’s worst team (Browns?) practice squad would beat the CFL all-stars.

Coulda woulda shoulda...

 

[MapleLeafistan]

Its funny how Canadians claim to be proud, yet constantly need American approval to be regarded as "acceptable".

Everything from sports, to music, to film, to television.

Pretty sad state of affairs.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Its funny how Canadians claim to be proud, yet constantly need American approval to be regarded as "acceptable".

Everything from sports, to music, to film, to television.

Pretty sad state of affairs.

60-70% of cfl players (all the QB’s and like 90% of the skilled position players) are Americans who would gladly make 100-350k as a practice roster player for the jets than make 60k cad in the CFL. I’m as patriotic and nationalistic as a 80’s baby could be, but come on.... the gap in skill level is massive between the leagues.

 

[Pookie]

60-70% of cfl players (all the QB’s and like 90% of the skilled position players) are Americans who would gladly make 100-350k as a practice roster player for the jets than make 60k cad in the CFL. I’m as patriotic and nationalistic as a 80’s baby could be, but come on.... the gap in skill level is massive between the leagues.

This may be true but to be honest, the Canadian version of the game is much more exciting to watch.

The 3 down system really takes the idea of "clock management" off the table. The air game is more prevalent up here and made more interesting with multiple receivers in motion. Possession changes more frequently in our game.

 

[MapleLeafistan]

I don't care much for football but exactly what was said above.

CFL is more tolerable...there's at least some flow to the game. NFL is just 3 seconds of running and whistles.

 

[Nylanderthal]

This may be true but to be honest, the Canadian version of the game is much more exciting to watch.

The 3 down system really takes the idea of "clock management" off the table. The air game is more prevalent up here and made more interesting with multiple receivers in motion. Possession changes more frequently in our game.

Also the 12 man line up vs. 11 in the NFL allowing an extra receiver and the wider field to create more empty space are also big differences that create that high tempo run and gun style of game. I’m a fan of both leagues, and was merely commenting on the skill gap between the two leagues when another poster mentioned having the two leagues compete. Heck when I lived in TO I was an Argos season ticket holder from 08-12.

 

[Pookie]

Also the 12 man line up vs. 11 in the NFL allowing an extra receiver and the wider field to create more empty space are also big differences that create that high tempo run and gun style of game. I’m a fan of both leagues, and was merely commenting on the skill gap between the two leagues when another poster mentioned having the two leagues compete. Heck when I lived in TO I was an Argos season ticket holder from 08-12.

All good.

I like both as well.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

2 year deal. Heh.

 

[BM14]

Good...MLSE will give Argos some much needed marketing...this has been there biggest downfall IMO. Argos were incredibly stubborn and just refused to market themselves to the city...and the city eventually forgot about them. They need to bring some excitement around the Argos...maybe even push for exhibition matches with the Buffalo Bills and Detroit Lions.

Wouldn't mind seeing some exhibition matches between CFL and NFL teams...maybe even have a champions trophy like tournament. Top 2 CFL vs Top 4 NFL go head-to-head.

The biggest downfall is not marketing, it's that most Toronto sports fans prefer top tier leagues, and as anti-Canadian as it may sound, the CFL is not the best football league. Unless you're in your 50s/60s or live in a small market city where there's nothing else, the CFL doesn't exist on the sports radar.

No chance would an NFL owner ever okay one of their players playing in an exhibition scenario mentioned above.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

60-70% of cfl players (all the QB’s and like 90% of the skilled position players) are Americans who would gladly make 100-350k as a practice roster player for the jets than make 60k cad in the CFL. I’m as patriotic and nationalistic as a 80’s baby could be, but come on.... the gap in skill level is massive between the leagues.

The skill gap is noticeable, but there's lots wrong with this post.

First of all, ~50% of the league is American. This is mandated by the national/international rules. This is an uncommon thing in NA, but you see "import" restrictions commonly in sports leagues outside of NA like in European Soccer, hockey, etc. Also seen in MLS in NA.

A good portion of the league makes more than 60K. That's rookie level contract. It's like saying NHLers make 500K. Top QB's are making 400-600K, good starters 150-250K, more if your a national. Lots of backups even in 80-100K range.

By skill postions I assume you are meaning WR and RB primarily. It's not even close to 90%. Most teams will START 2 nationals in the WR corps for example, and some of the best in the league have been nationals recently. As many as 3 teams have been using a national to start at RB. Oh and there's a national QB who is among the top 10 QB's in the CFL, so it's not all Americans at QB.

There's no doubt that players will go to NFL if they can. The financial reasons alone make this a reality. But there's also an aspect of different games. Plenty of players that are good NFLers couldn't make it in CFL and vice versa. It's like KHL v NHL. Sure the best of the best are in NHL, but it's not neccessarily the best 600 hockey players in NHL and next tier in KHL. Some players excel at big ice can't work on small ice, and then there's some good NHLers that can't play on the big ice (look no further than E. Kane in KHL during lockout 12gp 0g, 1a and just flat out released by his KHL team before lockout ended).

 

[Holden Caulfield]

The biggest downfall is not marketing, it's that most Toronto sports fans prefer top tier leagues, and as anti-Canadian as it may sound, the CFL is not the best football league. Unless you're in your 50s/60s or live in a small market city where there's nothing else, the CFL doesn't exist on the sports radar.

No chance would an NFL owner ever okay one of their players playing in an exhibition scenario mentioned above.

Except a what 7th tier league in the MLS does well in Toronto.

I know this is your guys forum and whatnot but wow how insulting. CFL is huge in Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa places where they have NHL. Winnipeg was struggling but they've put alot into marketing and in particular have made adjustments to the gameday experience over the past 5 years. Now a Bombers game is a party. The team has a party before and after, they allow tailgating, they have party sections, etc. It's an experience to go to a game. This type of thing has taken an aging Bombers fanbase from the 95-05 time period and now it's mostly young people who are having a blast at the games and coming out week after week to cheer on the Bombers. It also appeals to families with many events for kids at the games at a reasonable price unlike Jets games. This attitude you are saying is something I'd expect from 2000, alot has changed in 20 years since around the league.

The only place left behind it seems is Toronto. I don't know how Toronto is doing things, but they could have success if they do it right, IMO.

 

[BM14]

Except a what 7th tier league in the MLS does well in Toronto.

I know this is your guys forum and whatnot but wow how insulting. CFL is huge in Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa places where they have NHL. Winnipeg was struggling but they've put alot into marketing and in particular have made adjustments to the gameday experience over the past 5 years. Now a Bombers game is a party. The team has a party before and after, they allow tailgating, they have party sections, etc. It's an experience to go to a game. This type of thing has taken an aging Bombers fanbase from the 95-05 time period and now it's mostly young people who are having a blast at the games and coming out week after week to cheer on the Bombers. It also appeals to families with many events for kids at the games at a reasonable price unlike Jets games. This attitude you are saying is something I'd expect from 2000, alot has changed in 20 years since around the league.

The only place left behind it seems is Toronto. I don't know how Toronto is doing things, but they could have success if they do it right, IMO.

That's great. Not one of those cities you mentioned is a major city on the international radar - Toronto is. There's simply too much to do here and the simple fact is the CFL is a minor league. it is what it is.

The reason why MLS is somewhat popular here is a very large part of the immigrant/2nd/3rd generation Canadians have European lineage and still identify as where their ancestry hails. Just take a look at how huge the World Cup is here. Soccer is in the blood and is the most popular sport globally.

 

[htpwn]

Except a what 7th tier league in the MLS does well in Toronto.

I know this is your guys forum and whatnot but wow how insulting. CFL is huge in Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Ottawa places where they have NHL. Winnipeg was struggling but they've put alot into marketing and in particular have made adjustments to the gameday experience over the past 5 years. Now a Bombers game is a party. The team has a party before and after, they allow tailgating, they have party sections, etc. It's an experience to go to a game. This type of thing has taken an aging Bombers fanbase from the 95-05 time period and now it's mostly young people who are having a blast at the games and coming out week after week to cheer on the Bombers. It also appeals to families with many events for kids at the games at a reasonable price unlike Jets games. This attitude you are saying is something I'd expect from 2000, alot has changed in 20 years since around the league.

The only place left behind it seems is Toronto. I don't know how Toronto is doing things, but they could have success if they do it right, IMO.

Since being acquired by MLSE, the Argos tried to follow a similar model as the Bombers and Redblacks. They tried to set up a party atmosphere, a tail gate, a proper 'football' game-day experience -- by all accounts, they didn't do bad job either. But it hasn't worked. Why? Because the Blue Jays got a head start back in 2014 with their beautiful new uniforms and renovations of the Skydome. The Raptors have put Drake front-and-center. Toronto FC already had a better atmosphere than the Argos, and that hasn't changed, as well as the 'hip' appeal of soccer as a global game. Heck even rugby's Toronto Wolfpack have made a mark, using their niche status as a selling point. The Argos have been around for a century. They can't play the niche card. They can't compete with soccer's worldliness or basketball's pop culture reach. The Blue Jays are almost in a different category, being the city's clear #2 team, but even if they weren't... a MLB team valued at a billion dollars can afford a lot more bells and whistles than a CFL team can.

That's the difference between a market like Toronto and small markets like the ones you listed. Just to give you an idea of the scale, since I find many Canadians outside Toronto treat it like any other big Canadian city, there are more people living in 37 sq mi of central Toronto than in all of Winnipeg. It is a very different beast. In Winnipeg the entertainment dollars are somewhat limited and every entertainment option (the Jets, Bombers, but also movie theaters and others) is fighting for a piece of the cake. In Toronto, because of the sheer scale of the city, nobody's fighting over the dollars. What they are fighting over is the spotlight, which attracts the dollars. The Argos are trying to cut through the noise and all the advertising trying to get people to go to the Blue Jays or TFC or the latest theater production, and get noticed. They are doing this against competitors who are often better funded, have a bigger foothold in the market, have the capacity to spend far more on advertising, or in the case of niche competitors, are ever more sophisticated and flexible in trying to reach an audience. Because those niche options need to be. Because they otherwise they fail, as the Argos have nearly done on multiple occasions.

The Argos can succeed (in a relative sense -- you only need a small sliver of the Toronto market to be 'successful' in the CFL), especially with MLSE's backing. But it's a long road back to the limelight and they'll likely never regain the popularity they reached in the 1950's. Canadian Football in the Toronto market is faces a much more difficult battle than it faces in places like Edmonton. Both the team and the league are just too small to truly compete with the big boys (even '7th tier' TFC, which for the record is probably the best team in North America, has a franchise value in the neighbourhood of $300 million, multitudes more than any CFL club).

 

[Joey Hoser]

The biggest downfall is not marketing, it's that most Toronto sports fans prefer top tier leagues, and as anti-Canadian as it may sound, the CFL is not the best football league. Unless you're in your 50s/60s or live in a small market city where there's nothing else, the CFL doesn't exist on the sports radar.

No chance would an NFL owner ever okay one of their players playing in an exhibition scenario mentioned above.

It's never going to be on par with any of the big leagues, but there is no reason the CFL can't be more popular than it is right now. The SHL isn't the best league in the world either, but those teams have rabid followings, as is in the CHL.

 

[BM14]

It's never going to be on par with any of the big leagues, but there is no reason the CFL can't be more popular than it is right now. The SHL isn't the best league in the world either, but those teams have rabid followings, as is in the CHL.

What does the SHL have to compare with where it's not the premier product?

People just have to understand the CFL is an inferior product and as such, is not conducive to major markets.