"MLB could expand to 32 teams in 'five to six years"

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Bjorn Le

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May 17, 2010
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The problem you have with Vancouver is that they don't even have full-season baseball. Their MiLB team, the Canadians, is Short Season-A. While they DO lead the Northwest League in attendance, they'd need a stadium better than Nat Bailey and I'd like to see how they do at the full season level once again.

Well that's the crux of it. No stadium it's all moot anyway. I do think any city willing to talk about a stadium becomes a front runner. Baseball teams require specialized stadiums you can't exactly use for anything else. If you had an owner and investor for a stadium in Indianapolis they would get a team. More so than Montreal being a good market, they have a temporary venue and investors willing to build a stadium. That makes them not just a front runner, but a guaranteed destination. Any other city that can get those things is instantly in the same position.
 

Voight

#winning
Feb 8, 2012
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The problem you have with Vancouver is that they don't even have full-season baseball. Their MiLB team, the Canadians, is Short Season-A. While they DO lead the Northwest League in attendance, they'd need a stadium better than Nat Bailey and I'd like to see how they do at the full season level once again.

They would more than likely build a stadium if that was what it took for a team and they had everything else in place, heck a team could *potentially* play in BC Place temporarily.
 

Fish on The Sand

Untouchable
Feb 28, 2002
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They would more than likely build a stadium if that was what it took for a team and they had everything else in place, heck a team could *potentially* play in BC Place temporarily.

It would be pretty tough for a baseball team to play in BC Place with the Whitecaps and Lions both playing their at the same time.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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It would be pretty tough for a baseball team to play in BC Place with the Whitecaps and Lions both playing their at the same time.

Is there really that much overlap? Even when soccer and football are in season they don't play that often.
 

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
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Asking a single quasi-outdoor venue to host 3 different sports simultaneously would be unprecedented in this day of age.

I would say ever, but I'm sure there's some oddity that wound up being a complete disaster that doesn't pop instantly to mind.

It's hard enough for a place like the Staples Center to host 3 teams at once, but 3 sports? Yikes. Have fun playing on a baseball diamond, Lions and Whitecaps.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
There's a lot more money in them having a baseball franchise that they could build a stadium for than there is in CFL and MLS franchises though. They'd make it work if it were an option until a real venue could be completed (which really wouldn't take that long in today's day and age).
 

BigMac1212

Registered Insominac
There's a lot more money in them having a baseball franchise that they could build a stadium for than there is in CFL and MLS franchises though. They'd make it work if it were an option until a real venue could be completed (which really wouldn't take that long in today's day and age).

You also have to deal with the hanging scoreboard that BC Place Stadium installed with the recent renovations. That is a dealbreaker.
 

Saturated Fats

This is water
Jan 24, 2007
4,299
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Vancouver/Edinburgh
There could be real appetite for MLB in Vancouver - but I'm not sure I see it as the appetite that leads to sell-outs of an (as-yet available') 40,000+ stadium.

People love Canadians baseball at the Nat because it's a quaint, quiet, stress-free throwback. You can go to a ball-game strictly for the amenities. Add everything that comes with the Bigs, and you'd have a much different tenor.

There also wouldn't be the appetite for building a new baseball-specific stadium unless the team was guaranteed. With real estate being both as offensively-expensive and frighteningly-scarce (0.6% rental vacancy) as it is, it would be a tooooouuuuugh sell.

I think it could eventually succeed - but like with the Grizzlies, the growing pains would be immense. Fans here get enough perennial loserdom with the Canucks - they don't have the patience for a decade-out expansion build.

Plenty more thoughts, but typing on my iPad cramps the wrists...
 

Belamorte

Feed Your Head
Nov 14, 2003
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North American Scum
It will not be Vancouver. As was said there is not a stadium to start (yes, BC Place could work for in a pinch), but they would need to build another (with a roof or retractable roof like Seattle [the weather is just too wet in the Spring and Fall to work without]), Vancouver could not support the Canadians enough even to keep them in AAA ball (so I do not see a large enough fan base [granted The Nat is a bit out of the way for many]), travel would be horrible for every team except Seattle, and Seattle is just bigger and too close.


Montreal I can see, although they also need a stadium, Olympic can work for a bit I suppose and it has a large enough population, Vegas again would need a stadium with a roof of some kind but I could see casino money building one. But, Vancouver is a non-starter IMO.
 

Belamorte

Feed Your Head
Nov 14, 2003
2,942
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North American Scum
Doesn't it seem like most Canadian MLB players have come from BC?


I think so, but that has more to do with climate I think. In the urban centres of BC (Lower Mainland, Okanagan, Southern Vancouver Island, Kootneys [to a degree]), we can play ball pretty much all year, unlike anywhere east of the Kootneys or north of Kamloops.
 

tank44

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
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Seattle, WA
Vancouver could not support the Canadians enough even to keep them in AAA ball (so I do not see a large enough fan base [granted The Nat is a bit out of the way for many]), travel would be horrible for every team except Seattle, and Seattle is just bigger and too close.

I disagree with the statement that Vancouver could not support AAA baseball. At A ball they've averaged ~4k in a 6k stadium. I can't find attendance info for AAA but being at the stadium it appears the same now as it was then. The stadium is old and people go for the setting & outing and not necessarily the talent in the game. The AAA team had ownership & affiliation changes. In the end, they moved to a new stadium, closer to the MLB team and owner. Sucks that they moved immediately after winning the AAA World Series.

A SHORT HISTORY OF VANCOUVER PRO BASEBALL said:
the last owner, Art Savage, candidly admitting he would prefer a ball team closer to his California home. Sacramento had been talking about building a Triple-A ballpark ever since leaving the P.C.L. in 1977. The Sacto area finally got its act together and was waving the sweet carrot of a state-of-the-art stadium with all the amenities, a far cry from a luxury-boxless Vancouver stadium designed in the 1930s. Savage convinced the P.C.L. that extra attendance and revenue would be assured in the California state capital, and the league cavalierly disregarded the Vancouver fan base and agreed to move the Canadians after the 1999 season.

In the end, I think Vancouver would be fine as a potential AAA city but not MLB. The high cost of land would make a new stadium near $1B Canadian and there's not much land around the city center available. The Indy car race left when the land became too valuable to keep for racing cars & areas and is now dozens of high rise condos. BC Place was redone to really be for rectangular sports and the large low scoreboard is a major deterrent as well.
 

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
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What about Nashville or Memphis? OKC? Vegas? Orlando? Indianapolis? Inland Empire?

Nashville could be a possibility.
Memphis is too small (similar market size to Buffalo).
I don't see OKC anytime soon, but maybe eventually.
Vegas is possible if someone builds the most state of the art stadium humanly imaginable.
Orlando is only an option if the Rays are moving. There's no way MLB puts a 3rd team in Florida when the 2 that are there are probably the worst supported teams in the league.
Indianapolis seems to be focusing on getting an MLS team first. I could see them being a candidate down the road, but not yet.
Inland Empire? Absolutely not.
 

MurrayBannerman

I post about baseball on a hockey forum
Feb 18, 2012
34,493
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CHI
Orlando is Rays territory. They would 100% have to move and, even then, I think the MLB would just go with downtown Tampa.
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
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Durham, NC
Unfortunately Portland opted for soccer over baseball when they kicked the Beavers out of what's now Providence Park. Considering the difficulty the Beavers had in finding a site for a park (which ultimately led to their relocation to El Paso by way of Tucson), I doubt there's be much traction for an MLB park. There's a Short Season A Northwest League team in the Portland suburbs (the Hillsboro Hops) and that's likely the best Portland can expect for awhile.
 

Big McLargehuge

Fragile Traveler
May 9, 2002
72,188
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S. Pasadena, CA
Unfortunately Portland opted for soccer over baseball when they kicked the Beavers out of what's now Providence Park. Considering the difficulty the Beavers had in finding a site for a park (which ultimately led to their relocation to El Paso by way of Tucson), I doubt there's be much traction for an MLB park. There's a Short Season A Northwest League team in the Portland suburbs (the Hillsboro Hops) and that's likely the best Portland can expect for awhile.

I don't think it's fair to say they chose soccer over baseball. They chose the MLS over minor league baseball, which is a good decision in my book.

Providence Park fits such a tiny footprint that there was no way to expand it any further for baseball use, it wasn't an option as a temporary venue even if they built a larger stadium for a MLB team. Hell, it's too small for the Timbers.

That said, given the politics of Portland and Oregon in general you know they're not going to vote to build a stadium with a ton of public money, so it'd basically require someone to build a stadium and buy a team...so...Portland tops my list as best open American market for a baseball team, but they're a total non-factor in terms of actually getting a team for at least the next decade.

It sucks that a city that large only has a Northwest League team in the suburbs, but it is what it is. Stadiums are expensive...to say nothing of land itself.
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
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Durham, NC
I don't think it's fair to say they chose soccer over baseball. They chose the MLS over minor league baseball, which is a good decision in my book.

Providence Park fits such a tiny footprint that there was no way to expand it any further for baseball use, it wasn't an option as a temporary venue even if they built a larger stadium for a MLB team. Hell, it's too small for the Timbers.

That said, given the politics of Portland and Oregon in general you know they're not going to vote to build a stadium with a ton of public money, so it'd basically require someone to build a stadium and buy a team...so...Portland tops my list as best open American market for a baseball team, but they're a total non-factor in terms of actually getting a team for at least the next decade.

It sucks that a city that large only has a Northwest League team in the suburbs, but it is what it is. Stadiums are expensive...to say nothing of land itself.

Noted, although we'll have to agree to disagree there. ANY level of baseball, even summer collegiate league ball, is preferable to soccer to me. If a team in the Premiereship decided to relocate to Durham, NC tomorrow I'd likely never drop a dime on them and keep going to the DBAP to see the Bulls.
 

BogsDiamond

Anybody get 2 U yet?
Mar 16, 2008
1,132
79
Montreal never should've lost the Expos, but am I the only one who thinks baseball would do really, really well in Vancouver?

Count me in as someone who believes it would. Big time.

I wonder if that would impede on Seattle's market though?
I don't live in BC, so I'm unaware of the Canadian support the Mariners receive.
That might be the biggest reason Vancouver doesn't get a club.

I'd love to see the Expos return and I think it'll happen one way or another. Either the Rays move there or they get an expansion team.

Vegas makes sense too. It may take a year or two, but once the other leagues see how the NHL does there, I'm sure if it's anything close to being a positive experience, the NFL, NBA and MLB will be looking to take up residency.

I don't know enough about the baseball climate in the Carolina area, but would a team do well in either North or South Carolina?

And what about Indiana or Memphis?

If I were a betting man, and MLB had to lay down two new franchises, I'd say Montreal and Vegas were the front-runners.

EDIT: I can't see another team going to Texas. Austin is too close to Houston and will a 3rd team in the state really help grow the game? (which I believe is a major factor when considering a potential expansion site).
 

garnetpalmetto

Jerkministrator
Jul 12, 2004
12,476
11,841
Durham, NC
Count me in as someone who believes it would. Big time.

I wonder if that would impede on Seattle's market though?
I don't live in BC, so I'm unaware of the Canadian support the Mariners receive.
That might be the biggest reason Vancouver doesn't get a club.

I'd love to see the Expos return and I think it'll happen one way or another. Either the Rays move there or they get an expansion team.

Vegas makes sense too. It may take a year or two, but once the other leagues see how the NHL does there, I'm sure if it's anything close to being a positive experience, the NFL, NBA and MLB will be looking to take up residency.

I don't know enough about the baseball climate in the Carolina area, but would a team do well in either North or South Carolina?


And what about Indiana or Memphis?

If I were a betting man, and MLB had to lay down two new franchises, I'd say Montreal and Vegas were the front-runners.

EDIT: I can't see another team going to Texas. Austin is too close to Houston and will a 3rd team in the state really help grow the game? (which I believe is a major factor when considering a potential expansion site).

I'd say the climate's pretty good considering up to a couple years ago North Carolina alone had every level of pro ball except Short Season A. Between North and South Carolina you have a pretty rich baseball history and as of today you have two Triple-A teams (Charlotte and Durham), three Advanced-A clubs (Carolina, Myrtle Beach, and Winston-Salem), seven Low-A squads (Asheville, Charleston, Columbia, Greensboro, Greenville, Hickory, and Kannapolis), and a Rookie team (Burlington).

The problem is where to play. None of the metropolitan areas in South Carolina are quite big enough yet and North Carolina's best options are Metrolina (the Charlotte metropolitan area) and the Triangle (the Raleigh-Durham area) . Unfortunately for Metrolina, the Knights new park isn't expandable (and their old one, which was, has been torn down and the site redeveloped) and for the Triangle you'd have to find a way to either build a new park or significantly expand Durham Bulls Athletic Park (which currently seats 10,000). I think it'd just be a tough go currently.
 

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