Mizral's Organizational Rankings (#1 through #10)

[Mizral]

The Messenger, I suggest you read the prospect eligability on HF's main site. Sutherby, Chistov, and others are not eligable.

As for the person who compared Washington & Montreal, you left off Boyd Gordon and Alexander Semin, two of the Caps top prospects. It looks a lot better when you forget to put those guys up there, I'm sure, but it's not really fair, now is it?

 

[montreal]

The Messenger, I suggest you read the prospect eligability on HF's main site. Sutherby, Chistov, and others are not eligable.

As for the person who compared Washington & Montreal, you left off Boyd Gordon and Alexander Semin, two of the Caps top prospects. It looks a lot better when you forget to put those guys up there, I'm sure, but it's not really fair, now is it?

Relax, I just copied and pasted from the Caps page here at HF, I just assumed they had it right. Add them and I still take the Habs easily but I've seen most of the Hab prospects and I've seen little of the Caps. Still I can't see the Caps at 1st, no way no how, but it's just an opinion.

 

[Mizral]

Chistov > Sutherby
Lupul > Gordon
Popovic < Eminger
Smirnov = Semin
Getzlaf > Fehr
Perry > Johansson
Ilja Bryzgalov (G) = Maxime Daigneault (G)
Brent > Yonkman (D)

The first two don't really matter much.

Smirnov = Semin? On what planet? Not that I disagree with all those, but Smirnov equalling Semin on your list there pretty much discredits the rest of it. Not that Smirnov is horrible, but clearly Semin is ahead of him by a large margin.

Anyhow, your little list there left out the top Caps prospect, Oulette. 'Out of the four year scope', doesn't make any sense. I am grading prospects, not lists 'out of a four year scope'. Oulette is probobly a stronger prospect than any prospect in the Ducks system, though Lupul is nothing to sneeze at either. And as for your >/=/< system, how about if I did it this way:

Lupul = Semin
Bryzgalov < Oulette
Popovic < Eminger
Getzlaf = Gordon
Perry < Fehr
Brent < Yonkman
Smirnov > Johansson

It's all in how you look at things, but that's how I see it.

As for how I graded it, no I do not see all the players play, however I do have Redline, used HF, and also I sent about two dozen PM's on this messageboard and others to compile the list.

Anyways, Messenger, if you think you could do a better job, I'd like to see you try.

 

[Mess]

The Messenger, I suggest you read the prospect eligability on HF's main site. Sutherby, Chistov, and others are not eligable.

As for the person who compared Washington & Montreal, you left off Boyd Gordon and Alexander Semin, two of the Caps top prospects. It looks a lot better when you forget to put those guys up there, I'm sure, but it's not really fair, now is it?

So you are saying that if we left of Chistov and Sutherby granted they are still current draft picks but have established themselves as NHL regulars ...that's fine..Leave them off

but that does not suddenly swing the Pendulum in Washington's favor..

Also
I would take ANAHEIMS 3 Juniours (Getzlaf, Perry, Brent) that have been named to the Team Canada camp over any 3 not in the NHL prospects from Washington..

Getzlaf is a force in the WHL and one of the most dominant 2 way players...who just about made the team this year.. Corry Perry leads the OHL in scoring currently and Tim Brent abilities are apparent at least to Anaheim and Team Canada WJC... and that even excludes Joffrey Lupul who was probably the highest scoring player in the WHL goal wise the past 2 seasons before joining the Ducks.. 41 goals in just 50 games last year ....56 the year before...compared to Boyd Gordon who is a solid kid but no where near Lupul's offensive upside ...

Well you can have your opinions, but you need better resource Material.. and it will be interesting when HF , The Hockey News and McKeens release their new listings because I am willing to bet lots of $$$$ that Washington is not #1 on any of their lists.. Just yours based on what????

And you say that you ussed HF guidelines but they have Semin, Gordon, and Eminger all as graduated... So you are just picking what you like to make your arguement stick.. I chose to included all players from the past 4 years so there is not a grey area like your list has...

 

[Mizral]

Better depth? Who cares about the depth when the topend talent in Caps system is below average?? It's like having a prospect pool full of Matt Cookes or Kris Drapers without a single Näslund, Thornton or Gaborik. That's one helluva weakness right there.

No, having 'good depth' simply doesn't cut it when there simply isn't enough top end talent.

Not enough top end talent?

Oulette, Semin, or Eminger could potentially be franchise players (particularly Oulette), but they don't have top end talent? Yeesh. No offense, I'd take Oulette over any Ducks prospect right now. Probobly Eminger too, and Semin is right there with Lupul. The Caps have very fine top-end talent, but they also have terrific depth too, in all positions.

 

[Habs4ever]

Are You Washington fan by any chance because

because Washington has many third line prospects with some good players but Montreal has just as good or better prospects to compare with and you put six place difference between them how???

 

[Habs4ever]

Well Compare this potential wise

Not enough top end talent?

Oulette, Semin, or Eminger could potentially be franchise players (particularly Oulette), but they don't have top end talent? Yeesh. No offense, I'd take Oulette over any Ducks prospect right now. Probobly Eminger too, and Semin is right there with Lupul. The Caps have very fine top-end talent, but they also have terrific depth too, in all positions.

Eminger = Hainsey
Kostitsyn > Semin
Perezhogin > Gordon
Higgins > Johansson
Komisarek > Fehr
Plekanec < Brian Suthurby
I'm not saying Washington is bad but Montreal has just as good prospect depth chart, now if you want to root for washington then go ahead I won't stop you.


Only Ouelette is someone not comparable now but we might already have him in Halak.

 

[Mizral]

Eminger = Hainsey
Kostitsyn > Semin
Perezhogin > Gordon
Higgins > Johansson
Komisarek > Fehr
Plekanec < Brian Suthurby
I'm not saying Washington is bad but Montreal has just as good prospect depth chart, now if you want to root for washington then go ahead I won't stop you.


Only Ouelette is someone not comparable now but we might already have him in Halak.

Again, I suppose it's only a matter of opinion.

But anyways, I'd have it more like this:

Komisarek < Eminger
Perezhogin = Semin
Kastsitsyn > Gordon
Higgins = Fehr
Plekanec = Johansson
Hainsey > Yonkman

And this is without mentioning the Caps top prospect, Ouelette, whom is much more highly regarded than Halak. Halak would be more comparable to Radislav Stana who is actually the 3rd goaltending prospect on the Caps, and is already having a few good games into the NHL. Halak is far from making the NHL. There isn't really anyone to compare Ouelette or Daigneault to.

Anyhow, I think the top end talent is quite equal, but the Caps have it more spread out over the positions, whereas the Habs do not really have a top notch goaltending prospect. Perhaps I put much more stock in goaltenders than you do?

However, looking beyond the top end talent, the Caps seem to have better depth and, again, over all positions, after the top 5 or 6 guys. The Habs are pretty strong too, but again, the lack of a top notch goaltender puts them down the ranking a bit.

 

[Mizral]

There is noway Perezhogin is = to Semin, Semin is scoring a coupel goals in the NHL while Perezhogin has sucked it up in the AHL. Washington is underated just as NJ is because there isn't many washington fans on this site. They sure as hell have the toughest prospects with a dash of skill.

Well, now while Perezhogin is not scoring much right now, keep in mind he's new to North America. I am giving him a bit of a 'grace period' for half the AHL season. He did score 15 goals in the RSL after all.

Though I agree, Semin is very underrated. I have a feeling he'll be touted up there with Ales Hemsky in a year or so.

 

[PanthersRule96]

The pen's dont seem to get any respect around here.

No offense to pens fans, but I think there's a reason why.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

more illeterate posters

Irony.

 

[PanthersRule96]

The only thing I disagree with about the Panthers is the mention of Rossiter in the list of prospects. I would substitute Jeremy Swanson for him in that list. Rossiter has been horrible in all of his callups and looks to be a career AHLer. Swanson is at least picked to go to all the Team Canada showings and is a talented d-man.

Maybe in part from playing with Crosby, but Dany Roussin is absoultely tearing up the Q. He is second in points, 16 behind Crosby and is scoring and getting assists too. He is in the top 10 for panther prospects and could be a later round steal.

 

[Mess]

Ouch, that's brutal assesment Mizral. Ok, so I'm a Ducks fan and I tried to stay out of it but when I saw that I just HAD to reply.

Lupul = Semin ??? HELLOO??? Lupul is not only much better scorer, he's also bigger and more physical. A tie at best.

Bryz < Ouelette Quite similar stats in the A, I honestly don't see much difference between these two players. Edge to Ouelette at best.

Getzlaf = Gordon Well again I'm gonna disagree with you, Getzlaf has one of the best PPG ratios (better than the overall points leader) in WHL this season and was the last player cut from Ducks this training camp despite being 2 years younger and a powerforward (usually take longer to develope). Plays much more physical style and lead the WHL team in points against russians. Atleast slight edge to Getzlaf.

Perry < Fehr OHL points leader Perry vs. Fehr who's 17th in WHL scoring. Gonna be honest and admit that I haven't heard much about Fehr, is there something special in him which makes him better because it seems offensively he doesn't seem to be any better.

Brent < Yonkman Center vs. d-man, I'm not quite sure how you reached the conclusion...? Yonkman is what 22 and still playing in the A despite Caps having horrible D?

Thanks for the support.. but its a losing argument with Mizral ..He is an opinionated 20 year know-it-all that does not have anything to back up his discussions.. Many of the prospects he is grading are older than he is..and you can see Ducks fan or not that if he honestly thinks that the way he has lined up the prospects against each other that he has never seen many play...

 

[montreal]

Komisarek < Eminger
Perezhogin = Semin
Kastsitsyn > Gordon
Higgins = Fehr
Plekanec = Johansson
Hainsey > Yonkman

And this is without mentioning the Caps top prospect, Ouelette, whom is much more highly regarded than Halak. Halak would be more comparable to Radislav Stana who is actually the 3rd goaltending prospect on the Caps, and is already having a few good games into the NHL. Halak is far from making the NHL. There isn't really anyone to compare Ouelette or Daigneault to.

Anyhow, I think the top end talent is quite equal, but the Caps have it more spread out over the positions, whereas the Habs do not really have a top notch goaltending prospect. Perhaps I put much more stock in goaltenders than you do?

However, looking beyond the top end talent, the Caps seem to have better depth and, again, over all positions, after the top 5 or 6 guys. The Habs are pretty strong too, but again, the lack of a top notch goaltender puts them down the ranking a bit.

Komisarek > Eminger
Perezhogin = Semin
Kastsitsyn > Gordon
Higgins > Fehr
Plekanec < Johansson
Hainsey > Yonkman

But would replace Plekanec with Hossa or maybe Urquhart

You bring up goaltending, and your right the Habs don't have the talent the Caps have, but what about LW, were the Caps seem thin and the Habs have Kasty and Hossa with Lambert having a great season so far.

 

[montreal]

Semin is just as new to North America, Perezhigin is way to small and weak physically to compete in NA. Semin seems to have an edge to his game and in the end that should be the difference.

What? Did Semin hit a growth spirt? He's not much bigger then Perezhogin, who is 8 months older, seem around the same height, and same weight give or take. I've seen Perezhogin a few times this year I was right behind the bench, and while he is small and not very strong, I can't see how Semin is much bigger or stronger, but I only saw Semin on tv.

But saying Semin is way better cause he's in the NHL isn't fair. The Caps are the worst team in the NHL, and don't have the insane fan/media expectations of Montreal. It's hard to compare two players on different teams, as different teams have different plans for their players. Semin has looked good with some flashy moves, but who's to say who will be better in the future.

 

[spence___]

No offense to pens fans, but I think there's a reason why.

and what would that be?

 

[Mizral]

The Messenger,

No need to get personal. If you don't like my rankings, and want to get in a personal arguement, PM me. Better yet, don't respond.

Komisarek > Eminger
Perezhogin = Semin
Kastsitsyn > Gordon
Higgins > Fehr
Plekanec < Johansson
Hainsey > Yonkman

But would replace Plekanec with Hossa or maybe Urquhart

You bring up goaltending, and your right the Habs don't have the talent the Caps have, but what about LW, were the Caps seem thin and the Habs have Kasty and Hossa with Lambert having a great season so far.

Don't forget Alexander Semin is a left winger. Beyond that, they are pretty thin, but I'm sure they have a few guys who can move around. Usually for wingers, I combine both right and left wingers, as often times we see prospects moved around from side to side based on the need of the pro clubs.

Still, a top end talent like Semin on the left wing is nothing to scoff at. As for Hossa, he isn't a prospect. But if you want to include him, the Caps also have Matthew Pettinger who can play left wing.

 

[Mess]

Not enough top end talent?

Oulette, Semin, or Eminger could potentially be franchise players (particularly Oulette), but they don't have top end talent? Yeesh. No offense, I'd take Oulette over any Ducks prospect right now. Probobly Eminger too, and Semin is right there with Lupul. The Caps have very fine top-end talent, but they also have terrific depth too, in all positions.

Lets talk about Oulette for a moment... He has been a career minor leaguer playing a total of 2 NHL games 3 years ago... It not like he is in a DEEP organization where even though Washington is in the bottom of the standings all the while Kolzig struggles among trade rumours passed on the depth chart by not only Sebastien Charpentier (G), but his Portland teammate Rastislav Stana (G) has played NHL games ahead of Him... Philly traded him as a throw in with a ton of picks just for a Playoff rental 39 year old rent-a-player in Adam Oates...

Oulette now 22 going on 23 having spent parts of 4 years in the NHL ,and although many will say that it takes young goalies longer, players like 19 year old MA Fleury and others are already regular NHL players... If he would be a skater playing 4 years in the AHL with hardly a sniff at the NHL people would start wondering if he is ever going to make it..

There is a Fine line between STAR PROSPECT and BUST and Oulette while talented might be getting dangerously close to the Later.. maybe he is headed the way of other top drafted goalies that where drafted 1st rounders, high and now are considered lesser prospects, like Brian Finley 1999, Patrick DesRochers 1998, Mathieu Chouinard 1998,Brent Krahn 2000 etc...many who where considered FUTURE STARS as well..

But for your analysis you are using him as a trump card against other top prospects..

 

[montreal]

The Messenger,

No need to get personal. If you don't like my rankings, and want to get in a personal arguement, PM me. Better yet, don't respond.



Don't forget Alexander Semin is a left winger. Beyond that, they are pretty thin, but I'm sure they have a few guys who can move around. Usually for wingers, I combine both right and left wingers, as often times we see prospects moved around from side to side based on the need of the pro clubs.

Still, a top end talent like Semin on the left wing is nothing to scoff at. As for Hossa, he isn't a prospect. But if you want to include him, the Caps also have Matthew Pettinger who can play left wing.

How is Hossa not a prospect? He's not played 65 NHL games, and has played 90 AHL games. He fits in HF's critera for a prospect, I made a mistake in moving him off the prospects section while he was a Hab cause I misread something from the staff board. I fixed the mistake today and all is good now.

Your right I forgot Semin, I was thinking he was a RW. It is tough to compare wingers since they can move around, and no one is going to change anyones mind, but I'd take all the Habs prospects over all the Cap any day.

 

[KOMO_ROCKS]

Nice, detailed job! But I disagree on Washington. They should be lower than this.

Agreed

 

[Mizral]

The Messenger,

For someone who proclaims he sees every prospect that ever played, you'd think you know that most young goaltenders take much, much longer than skaters to break into the NHL.

Also, if you've read any reports of the Caps training camps, you'd know that Caps management wants to keep him in the AHL as to groom him as a starter and have him play lots of games, rather than perhaps blow away his confidence as a backup playing behind Olaf Kolzig.

To say Ouelette is close to 'bust' status is absolutely inept. Marty Turco wasn't a starter in the NHL 'till he was 27 for christs sakes.

EDIT: MacIssac brings up a good point. It might be a concern if he was falling on his face in the AHL. But his stats in the American league are very impressive.

 

[Mizral]

How is Hossa not a prospect? He's not played 65 NHL games, and has played 90 AHL games. He fits in HF's critera for a prospect, I made a mistake in moving him off the prospects section while he was a Hab cause I misread something from the staff board. I fixed the mistake today and all is good now.

Your right I forgot Semin, I was thinking he was a RW. It is tough to compare wingers since they can move around, and no one is going to change anyones mind, but I'd take all the Habs prospects over all the Cap any day.

Wow, you're right. 59 games into the NHL, this is totally my mistake. For most of these players, I actually checked if each one I mentioned (and I didn't mention every prospect, I didn't have the time or the energy) was eligable, but maybe I screwed up on my math, or maybe the fact that he wasn't on the list on HF made me think he wasn't a prospect. Either way, oops, sorry. Even still, I don't think his inclusion changes a whole lot.

As for the second paragraph, well, I would expect as much from a Habs fan I think the Canucks prospects are a lot better than where I rated 'em too. I will probobly post the #11 - 20 ratings tonight or tommorrow by the way.

 

[Mess]

What doies age have to do with anything, I find 20 year olds are way more informed with prospects then adults are. Just beacuse you are older means squat about your hockey knowledge.

No I agree.. that they could have hockey Knowledge but not the experience to go with it...Many of the writers on here see the prospects first hand and get to interview and see what kinds of players they are.. The older you are the more you have seen hockey and realize you just can't pick up a Paper and read a few articles and think you are an expert on a subject.. And professional scouting agencies that's job it is to grade talent who have to be given more credibility, and even they prove it is a crap shoot.. If he useded professional reports or quotes to support his bases then I would be all ears but he comes off like he is this world traveler that has been watching hockey for 40 years and hung around in scouting circles.. That was the jsut of my post. I have had many discussion with him before and he has admitted he has never seen many of these prospects ever play and just bases all this on what he reads on message boards..

No offense ment at young fans in any way..

 

[montreal]

Hossa is a bum, when will you habs fans figure out he is nothing great. How he continures to make prospect lists after prospect lists is beyond me.

I am waiting to see Lambert adn Urguart in game action so I can get an accurate read on them. I hear they are pretty good together.

Sure whatever you say. I'm glad you have it all figured out. It's not hard really. He skates well, has good size, has a wicked shot, decent in his own end, good along the boards somewhat. The problem is he doesn't shoot enough at all, looks to pass way to quickly, doesn't carry the puck for long, isn't physical enough either. But the skill is there. He will get it going.

 

[OFSY34]

Well, let me defend some of my rankings:

I ask any of you to go look at the Caps prospects and try to find one team out there that has better depth. ONE. Good luck

Second, the Caps have a more balanced pool of prospects than any other team. You've got potential franchise players on forward, defense, and goal (certainly not that level yet, but they are not too far from it). Furthermore, they have no weakness'. Goaltending depth isn't an issue with Daigneault, they've got size on the blueline with Yonkman, they've got checkers and scorers between guys like Fehr and Gordon. Every other team has at least one weakness (if not a major one, a minor one), but not the Caps.

The Ducks in the top 10? You're kidding right? They have some nice prospects, but which team would you say they are better than here? I would say not a one.

Anyhow, I knew when I posted this I'd end up getting criticism, so keep it coming. It's interesting to read.

I agree about the Caps, now if they could just take their current line up and flip it for all their prospects, maybe they would get some intensity and a win or two. If I made 11 mil a year I wouldn't give a F&#K about my production. You need young guys in there that are going to battle for the jobs, not a balloon headed veteran (s) I'll put that in just in case anyone other than Jagr falls into that category.
Time and time again we see you can't buy your way to the cup. Stop trying.