Mitch "The Magician" Marner

[Moncherry]

Marner carried his line all year.

Radical opinion: None of the big three will slump and all of them will hit 70+ points next season.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Hard to say .. All we know is

Marner
March 14 games 2-8-10 points.
April 6 games 2-1-3 points.
= Last 20 games (last quarter) 4-9-13 points

Nylander
March 14 games 4-10-14 points
April 6 games 1-2-3 points
= Last 20 games 5-12-17 points

Matthews
March 14 games 5-3-8 points
April 6 games 4-2-6 points
= Last 20 games 9-5-14 points

Matthews scored the most goals 9 = Nylander and Marner combined & Nylander scored the most points and Marner was last in goals and points.

Marner had the same linemates all year but in 13 games in Dec he had 4-11-15 points (more than he had the last 2 months combined).

Is this one of those times where you quote a figure, then look up the actual statistics and realize it doesn't paint the same picture you originally thought, but then go ahead and post it because you've already committed to the argument?

 

[1specter]

Coincidentally when they started playing together.
Had Marner been promoted instead of Nylander how do you see his second half going?

Actually, Nylander had a stretch of ~20-25 games where he was on the Kadri line and him and Kadri were great together and went PPG. After that he was placed with Matthews as that line was struggling with Hyman and Brown on it.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Nylander was the best of the 3 in the last 30 games or so of the season. Nylander was constantly juggled too while Marner had consistent linemates the whole year.

 

[ACC1224]

Actually, Nylander had a stretch of ~20-25 games where he was on the Kadri line and him and Kadri were great together and went PPG. After that he was placed with Matthews as that line was struggling with Hyman and Brown on it.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that Nylander was the best of the 3 in the last 30 games or so of the season. Nylander was constantly juggled too while Marner had consistent linemates the whole year.

Nylander had a very good year, no doubt. Point was more had Marner been put into a better position, he would have had a greater chance to succeed.

 

[GLOO]

Marner did not have a good playoffs. Many Leaf forwards outplayed him. IMO

He did have a bounce back performance at the WC a few weeks later however. But that was big ice and less contact and more time and space. It seemed the tighter checking and more physical playoffs reduced Marner's effectiveness and it was noticeable.

Yes you nailed it right on the head. He is going to have to train hard to give himself to get stronger; especially the explosiveness and balance in his leg. The lack of strength really showed at times as he was not able to get his balance when people pushed or leaned hard on him

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Yes you nailed it right on the head. He is going to have to train hard to give himself to get stronger; especially the explosiveness and balance in his leg. The lack of strength really showed at times as he was not able to get his balance when people pushed or leaned hard on him

Agreed. If he's able to train hard to give himself to get stronger, then I think 70+ points is a real possibility.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Nylander had a very good year, no doubt. Point was more had Marner been put into a better position, he would have had a greater chance to succeed.

Marner was leading Matthews in points, until his shoulder injury/Mono. He struggled the last 2 months of the season recovering from the mono.

 

[TheProspector]

Marner carried his line all year.

Radical opinion: None of the big three will slump and all of them will hit 70+ points next season.

I think any one of these guys could be 80+ point guys (as early as next season), and maybe even 90+ point guys.

The reason they won't be isn't because they aren't good enough: it will be because they have to share icetime with each other.

Guys with the huge point totals are combining top-end skill with top-end icetime. Connor McDavid was playing 21 minutes a game.

Toronto's depth at F will make it very difficult for any one of them individually to crack the top-10 in points.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

I think any one of these guys could be 80+ point guys (as early as next season), and maybe even 90+ point guys.

The reason they won't be isn't because they aren't good enough: it will be because they have to share icetime with each other.

Guys with the huge point totals are combining top-end skill with top-end icetime. Connor McDavid was playing 21 minutes a game.

Toronto's depth at F will make it very difficult for any one of them individually to crack the top-10 in points.

This is the most glaring issue, but we should be happy to have such a talent upfront and I can only see the strength getting stronger with the prospects we have in the pipeline.

 

[thewave]

Is this one of those times where you quote a figure, then look up the actual statistics and realize it doesn't paint the same picture you originally thought, but then go ahead and post it because you've already committed to the argument?

Well... 24% extra performance over Marner and 18% over Matthews. That's quite a big jump 12pts on every 50(62)

 

[Mess]

Yes you nailed it right on the head. He is going to have to train hard to give himself to get stronger; especially the explosiveness and balance in his leg. The lack of strength really showed at times as he was not able to get his balance when people pushed or leaned hard on him

He exceeded expectations this year but he is still very light for even an average NHLer and he seemed to wear down as the season went on, and in the playoffs were it got more physical and tighter checking he became even less of a factor.

I think he realized this himself and it appears he is already working hard this summer to bulk up and get stronger in a effort to address this.

 

[Mess]

Nylander had a very good year, no doubt. Point was more had Marner been put into a better position, he would have had a greater chance to succeed.

Marner took Kessel's old spot on RW playing with Burke's former top line.

A rookie playing with a pair of seasoned vets isn't generally seen as being put in a bad position in transition. In fact the likelihood was the intent to shelter him with experience.

Now that certainly didn't happen, as Marner carried his line and his veteran linemates were the passengers along for the ride much of the year.

Nylander playing on an all rookie line generally with Auston and Zach generally isn't seen as a better situation, made worse by many thinking statistically Hyman was dragging the line down.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Marner took Kessel's old spot on RW playing with Burke's former top line.

A rookie playing with a pair of seasoned vets isn't generally seen as being put in a bad position in transition. In fact the likelihood was the intent to shelter him with experience.

Now that certainly didn't happen, as Marner carried his line and his veteran linemates were the passengers along for the ride much of the year.

Nylander playing on an all rookie line generally with Auston and Zach generally isn't seen as a better situation, made worse by many thinking statistically Hyman was dragging the line down.

I agree

 

[BlueBaron]

Bozak was very noticable in a good way... He was actually physical, laying out hits every game and played very well rounded hockey IMO.

You know, he was solid this year and when all is said and done we do not give Bozak nearly enough respect. He is now one of the most successful College free wallets ever, he's been a trooper for us and soldiered on no matter who he played with or what was said about him.

I know many of us hoped for bigger things from him, there was a time I thought a 70 point player was possible, but really speaking he was a good find by Burke.

 

[Beaninfritz]

You know, he was solid this year and when all is said and done we do not give Bozak nearly enough respect. He is now one of the most successful College free wallets ever, he's been a trooper for us and soldiered on no matter who he played with or what was said about him.

I know many of us hoped for bigger things from him, there was a time I thought a 70 point player was possible, but really speaking he was a good find by Burke.

This. He's played beyond expectations, and has done so at a very good price.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

He exceeded expectations this year but he is still very light for even an average NHLer and he seemed to wear down as the season went on, and in the playoffs were it got more physical and tighter checking he became even less of a factor.

I think he realized this himself and it appears he is already working hard this summer to bulk up and get stronger in a effort to address this.

1. He exceeded YOUR expectations

2. Its a fallacy you continue to push, and I hope people are smarter than to believe you
- Oct: 9 games: 1/5/6
- Nov: 14 games: 6/7/13
- Dec: 12 games: 1/6/7
- Jan: 13 games: 4/11/15 (ROM)
- Feb: 9 games: 3/4/7
- March: 14 games: 2/8/10
- April: 6 games: 2/1/3
- April (PO): 6 games: 1/3/4
- May (WC): 10 games: 4/8/12

So, by your logic, Mitch Marner "wore down" and really suffered from the close checking in October and December as well when things are known to really get tight.

3. Your last line is disingenuous. As if to imply he had not been working hard before. That's nonsense.

 

[Mess]

I agree

JVR -- Bozak -- Marner began the season as #1 line and top PP unit and that favoured Marner early on.

Kadri was the checking/shutdown line and Matthews was the all rookie line all year by simply switching Nylander with Brown and began as 3rd line and 2nd PP unit.

By season's end however it seemed the Bozak trio was the 3rd line and least effective unit as Auston charged to the top and Kadri-Komarov line was used for matchups.

 

[ACC1224]

JVR -- Bozak -- Marner began the season as #1 line and top PP unit and that favoured Marner early on.

Kadri was the checking/shutdown line and Matthews was the all rookie line all year by simply switching Nylander with Brown and began as 3rd line and 2nd PP unit.

By season's end however it seemed the Bozak trio was the 3rd line and least effective unit as Auston charged to the top and Kadri-Komarov line was used for matchups.

How did that favour Marner?

 

[Mess]

How did that favour Marner?

Already answered your post above.

Marner took Kessel's old spot on RW playing with Burke's former top line. Where Phil was a PPG player playing alongside JVR and Bozak.

A rookie playing with a pair of seasoned vets isn't generally seen as being put in a bad position in transition. In fact the likelihood was the intent to shelter him with experienced players.

Now that certainly didn't happen, as Marner carried his line and his veteran linemates were the passengers along for the ride much of the year.

Nylander playing on an all rookie line generally with Auston and Zach usually isn't seen as a better situation, made worse by many thinking statistically Hyman was dragging the line down.

 

[Apotheosis]

I think any one of these guys could be 80+ point guys (as early as next season), and maybe even 90+ point guys.

The reason they won't be isn't because they aren't good enough: it will be because they have to share icetime with each other.

Guys with the huge point totals are combining top-end skill with top-end icetime. Connor McDavid was playing 21 minutes a game.

Toronto's depth at F will make it very difficult for any one of them individually to crack the top-10 in points.

I think eventually you will see the big 3 getting very comparable ice time to them, assuming Marner plays with Matthews full time at some point. Nylander will split the rest of the time centring his own line.

 

[ACC1224]

Already answered your post above.

Still don't see how starting him on the "#1 line" playing with the Teams worse (maybe two worse)defensive forward favoured him. Seems like he had the toughest role out of all the rookies.

 

[Mess]

Still don't see how starting him on the "#1 line" playing with the Teams worse (maybe two worse)defensive forward favoured him. Seems like he had the toughest role out of all the rookies.

He got the 3rd most TOI/g of all forwards and #1PP unit.

They might have been the worst defensive forwards, but they were also the most experienced and most offensive forwards.

If you wanted a rookie to rank up points you put him with 30 goal JVR and not rookie Zach Hyman, and you play him on the #1PP unit with JVR, Bozak, Kadri and Gardiner.

Do you think playing him with Komarov and Kadri as a checking/shutdown line would have produced more points?

Or how about Kapanen who got to play on the 4th line with Martin and Boyle?

Seems to maximize Marner's offensive potential and output and playmaking abilities you play him exactly where Babcock played him. IMO

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

He got the 3rd most TOI/g of all forwards and #1PP unit.

They might have been the worst defensive forwards, but they were also the most experienced and most offensive forwards.

If you wanted a rookie to rank up points you put him with 30 goal JVR and not rookie Zach Hyman, and you play him on the #1PP unit with JVR, Bozak, Kadri and Gardiner.

Do you think playing him with Komarov and Kadri as a checking/shutdown line would have produced more points?

Or how about Kapanen who got to play on the 4th line with Martin and Boyle?

Seems to maximize Marner's offensive potential and output and playmaking abilities you play him exactly where Babcock played him. IMO

For those at home keeping score, Mitch Marner averaged 16:48 TOI/g. Of the eighteen rookies to have a 60 point rookie season since 05/06 (post lockout), Mitch Marner had the fourth lowest average TOI/g.

Now back to the hole digging.

 

[ACC1224]

He got the 3rd most TOI/g of all forwards and #1PP unit.

They might have been the worst defensive forwards, but they were also the most experienced and most offensive forwards.

If you wanted a rookie to rank up points you put him with 30 goal JVR and not rookie Zach Hyman, and you play him on the #1PP unit with JVR, Bozak, Kadri and Gardiner.

Do you think playing him with Komarov and Kadri as a checking/shutdown line would have produced more points?

Or how about Kapanen who got to play on the 4th line with Martin and Boyle?

Seems to maximize Marner's offensive potential and output and playmaking abilities you play him exactly where Babcock played him. IMO

Yes, without a doubt he would have been more successful playing with Hyman and Matthews and most likely playing with Kadri and Komarov.

A player of Marners talent is being wasted when he is charged with being 1st on the puck in the Offensive Zone and 1st back in the Defensive zone.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Yes, without a doubt he would have been more successful playing with Hyman and Matthews and most likely playing with Kadri and Komarov.

A player of Marners talent is being wasted when he is charged with being 1st on the puck in the Offensive Zone and 1st back in the Defensive zone.

Leafs are not a dump and chase team? I will agree Marner is the first player back, but he would also be the first player back on any Leafs line, that's his game going back to JR.