Tribute Mitch Marner - Lets Talk discussion thread

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56 Years No Cup

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it looks like keefe is no different from babcock in his absurd bias toward some players. marner is keefe's chosen one who can do no wrong. night in night out marner gives garbage effort and he just gets rewarded with more and more ice time.
I'm a big Marner supporter but I agree with you. Marner needed to sit last night to send a message. The only possible reason Marner is underperforming for this length of time better be some type of injury that he's nursing or I'm off the Keefe bandwagon real quick.
 

56 Years No Cup

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Kid needs to feel the heat for is lacklustre play... Sure his point totals are one thing but it's evident that he's not close to the same level he was the last season.

Hopefully he takes this off-season seriously.
Yep. Hit the weight home and work on that muffin shot.
 

JT AM da real deal

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Right, Marner isn’t a cap dump. But if you can take $11m from the forwards on this team and move it to a comparable player or players on defense, I think you do it.

Ex: you would need to trade Kerfoot, Hyman, Clifford and Engvall to get a comparable amount of cap space to spend on the back end. Which package is more likely to get good players back there? And what forwards do you bring in if you gut 4 forwards off this team?

It just makes too much sense to use Marner to upgrade the defense.
I disagree with that opinion but I do understand it. Mitch will come back to form. He always does. Maybe it will be next year but hopefully before the playoffs.
 

Strangle

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I disagree with that opinion but I do understand it. Mitch will come back to form. He always does. Maybe it will be next year but hopefully before the playoffs.

It’s not really an anti-Marner sentiment as it is a philosophical difference in how the team should be built.

It’s really the cap that makes this a discussion at all
 

ACC1224

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I think the Left is a big concern in switching the lines right now, but Malgin is familiar with Matthews and you could always try Kap/Engvall up there too
Never knew that.
What's the connection?
 

PromisedLand

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matthews and marner together is not that big of a threat that we thought they might be; I think they should put Marner back with Tavares and Matthews with Nylander

its not like matthews-marner are producing at such a high clip that it will be bad to break them up. The lines aren't going anyway might as well split them up and also may be split up the PP; the PP has been abysmal too
 

JT AM da real deal

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matthews and marner together is not that big of a threat that we thought they might be; I think they should put Marner back with Tavares and Matthews with Nylander

its not like matthews-marner are producing at such a high clip that it will be bad to break them up. The lines aren't going anyway might as well split them up and also may be split up the PP; the PP has been abysmal too
It is not really about line combos TBH. The truth is Willy is the strongest on his skates now of big 4. He can now handle the puck and take on a checker without losing it. and he is taking it to the net all the time. It is why he is producing every shift and was our only threat on west coast trip. He can handle the trap as he can skate through it. The other 3 guys can't do it. They need to pass through it. Which is very hard to do with 4 guys back. It is not about working harder. Rewatch the games it is very easy to see this issue.

Hyman Willy Kappy
Tavares Matty Marner (although they would have to start in opposing end)
if you want to really change things up to combat the trap. At least we will have 1 line producing.

Now Tampa won't play us like this so no need to do it for Tuesday night. So normal lines wherever you put Willy and Marner will work fine.
 

ShaneFalco

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matthews and marner together is not that big of a threat that we thought they might be; I think they should put Marner back with Tavares and Matthews with Nylander

its not like matthews-marner are producing at such a high clip that it will be bad to break them up. The lines aren't going anyway might as well split them up and also may be split up the PP; the PP has been abysmal too

Marner is too predictable
 

SeaOfBlue

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It is not really about line combos TBH. The truth is Willy is the strongest on his skates now of big 4. He can now handle the puck and take on a checker without losing it. and he is taking it to the net all the time. It is why he is producing every shift and was our only threat on west coast trip. He can handle the trap as he can skate through it. The other 3 guys can't do it. They need to pass through it. Which is very hard to do with 4 guys back. It is not about working harder. Rewatch the games it is very easy to see this issue.

Hyman Willy Kappy
Tavares Matty Marner (although they would have to start in opposing end)
if you want to really change things up to combat the trap. At least we will have 1 line producing.

Now Tampa won't play us like this so no need to do it for Tuesday night. So normal lines wherever you put Willy and Marner will work fine.

See I feel like if it were that simple, they would not score nearly as often and teams would just always do it against us since they can't beat the trap.

They can beat the trap, and there are ways of beating the trap by passing through it too.
 

JT AM da real deal

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See I feel like if it were that simple, they would not score nearly as often and teams would just always do it against us since they can't beat the trap.

They can beat the trap, and there are ways of beating the trap by passing through it too.
It really started when canes locked up the neutral zone on us and then the NHL is a copycat league. All 3 western teams did it to us. Again all you have to do is listen to Matty. There is no secret to what is being deployed here.

But not every team plays it. Tampa sucks at it too. Which is why we will likely beat them on Tuesday. Tampa will be out again in 1st round. I am kinda excited this year as I think we will go past round 1 if we can do what it takes to make playoffs. and tampa toronto will be exciting shoot it up playoff hockey. Love it. Then we lose in 5/6 to Bruins.
 

stewpac

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Both marner and Tavares have looked off this year, I dont see a down side to putting them back together. Matthews will score goals playing with literally anyone. Marner will bounce back, this isnt the first time he's lacked self confidence, might be the longest though. The joy in his game is completely gone, he's clearly not having fun. Hopefully keefe can get him going asap, we need him.
 
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SeaOfBlue

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Marner is too predictable

Probably a better way of looking at it, but it can extend to the entire team. Very easy to beat a team, even a talented one, when you know what they are going to do. Just ask the Astros :sarcasm:

For Marner, it's cover his passing lanes. He'll try to deke you and more often than not, he will lose the puck. If he tries to shoot, his shot sucks so you should be able to stop it. But really it applies to everyone on our team, including Matthews. Some of the turnovers Matthews committed were not his fault alone. He was having to go up against two checkers with no real options to make a play, which is what happens when Eakins' swarm system is working. The thing is, it is very easy to beat the swarm if you have your guys positioned in the right spot. Marner was blowing the zone, the defense was just standing around, and Hyman was there but covered by one of the swarmers. End result, Matthews eventually loses the puck, everyone is out of position and they score a goal.

I watched the highlights between Tampa and Boston last game against each other. 2/3 of the best teams in the league.

Things you notice when things are going well for either team:
- Guys off the puck are always moving their feet to open up options for the guy with the puck, no matter where they are on the ice. Very little standing still.
- Using multiple approaches to break down the defensive scheme, especially on the PP.
- Making quick plays to catch guys off guard and prevent other team from shutting down the options your teammates made for you.
- Crisp execution. Players are not bobbling the puck, or missing passes, or whiffing on shots (although it probably happened plenty of times outside of the highlights).
- Adapted when the other team adapted, but never threw out the original playbook.

Things you notice when things are not going well for either team:
- Puck watching or abandoning their man to chase the puck.
- Slow or lethargic skating.
- Lack of effort in tight areas.
- Predictable passes and lack of options for the player with the puck.
- Overpassing.
- Sloppy execution.

Which one sounds more like the Leafs? That may be too easy of a question, so I will follow it up with how are you going to have more of the good stuff and less of the bad stuff?

However you also notice that these teams make the same mistakes we do. They are unavoidable. The point is to make sure you limit them, especially the ones you can control, so that it takes a really good effort on the other team's part to beat you. We beat ourselves far too often for a team this good.
 
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SeaOfBlue

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It really started when canes locked up the neutral zone on us and then the NHL is a copycat league. All 3 western teams did it to us. Again all you have to do is listen to Matty. There is no secret to what is being deployed here.

But not every team plays it. Tampa sucks at it too. Which is why we will likely beat them on Tuesday. Tampa will be out again in 1st round. I am kinda excited this year as I think we will go past round 1 if we can do what it takes to make playoffs. and tampa toronto will be exciting shoot it up playoff hockey. Love it. Then we lose in 5/6 to Bruins.

Well it worked for maybe 2 teams since then, because it did not work for Vancouver, Florida, Tampa or LA. Did not really work as well as the swarm/overload did for San Jose and Anaheim either. Everyone was able to skate through the trap for the most part. It was when they swarmed us and killed all of our lanes that we were dumbfounded, forced crap, and collapsed. We were not thinking fast enough, but that does not mean we could not beat it because we've defeated the swarm and overload multiple times before.
 

JT AM da real deal

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See I feel like if it were that simple, they would not score nearly as often and teams would just always do it against us since they can't beat the trap.

They can beat the trap, and there are ways of beating the trap by passing through it too.
I don't see current personnel of Leafs doing it EVER. At least the way things are configured today. Every good trap team that has wanted to trap us has done so successfully since Canes.
I don't count early season games when refs ref differently and the players are not driving for points like after XMAS.
 

Arthur Morgan

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I wonder if it's social media as well is bothering him. last time I noticed he posted something I checked the comments and people attacking him about his contract. I feel bad for the kid but I guess he asked for it?
People should leave bashing to Forums.

Im sure he will bounce back. maybe throw him with JT again and Willy with Matthews and lets see how things work out again. I guess we should be thanking Florida for helping us make playoffs
 

ACC1224

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I wonder if it's social media as well is bothering him. last time I noticed he posted something I checked the comments and people attacking him about his contract. I feel bad for the kid but I guess he asked for it?
People should leave bashing to Forums.

Im sure he will bounce back. maybe throw him with JT again and Willy with Matthews and lets see how things work out again. I guess we should be thanking Florida for helping us make playoffs
Of course it would bother him, the kid has a big heart and bleeds blue.
He’ll turn things around, be fine and have a long productive career
 

NikoEhlers

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Marner shouldnt be on social media if he feels it affects his play negatively, is it too much to ask to be 100% professional, yes we have a loud fan base, you knew this, but it was all fun until you asked to get payd as a super star and didnt follow it up on the ice. Now, deal with it
 
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thewave

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Leafs fans, perpetually waiting for next year since 1967!

I am literally surrounded by many Smithers...
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Nithoniniel

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Marner playing the point on the PP is interesting, however I have a hard time seeing us utilize his playmaking fully from that spot. I also like Nylander better around the net than in the high slot. The PP needs a change though. It's gone so stale. Tavares is barely involved in the play, Marner doesn't seem to find any options other than going down low to Nylander or sliding it back to Barrie.

I feel like I go back to the same thing over and over when discussing the PP. Movement, movement, movement. Right now both Mitch and Auston are standing still on their half-boards. They get the puck, look for options, if nothing is there they move it around towards the other side. Tavares is twisting in the high slot. Barrie is - like so many other point guys on the PP - basically just there to transfer the puck from side to side. The only significant movement I see is from Willy, who seem to move all around the net.

They're supremely talented and highly intelligent players. I sincerely think shoehorning them into roles and positions too much is just limiting them to the benefit of the PK.

Consider this play: Matthews has the puck on the right half-boards. He attacks the net, and then passes it to Willy who is down below the net. Tavares shows himself on the other side as an option, and gets the puck. Meanwhile Marner glides in behind the d-man facing Tavares, while Nylander sneaks out at the far post and Matthews steps up in the high slot. Tavares could try to step out in front, or pull in a defender and move it to Marner. Barrie makes himself available to attack the ice behind Marner. If Marner gets it, he can attack towards the net with both Willy and Auston as options. If there's no shot or lane for either pass, he's got Barrie who should have the same options but with a different angle. We're also in very good position to get any rebounds.

Susceptible to 2-on-1's though.

The point is that the above scenario has four of five players moving significantly, and the fifth is still attacking towards the net. When do we see anything like it from our PP? Pretty much never.
 
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