Mitch Marner Discussion Thread

[Throw More Waffles]

Matthews was just as greedy. Nobody complains about that.

There's an entire thread created complaining about precisely that. There's been like 4 pages added in like the last hour.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yep.

And not to mention (this goes well beyond this thread) i literally cant understand why people who seemingly hate every aspect of this team continue to watch it. I mean there's like a dozen other games every night to watch every night.

If someone just gives up on the team when they suck they're a "fairweather fan".
If they are critical of the players/management when they suck, they're "bad fans".

Apparently we all need to be Koolaid drinking zealots.

 

[kb]

The way this fanbase has turned on this kid is ****ing disgusting. Complete 180

It's sad.

Why should he be any different than the others?

It's part of the responsibility that comes with his camp being a whiny during the negotiations that led to him binge the 2nd highest paid winger in league history.

He needs to step up and earn it. His fans need to understand it's ALL his fault.

 

[Menzinger]

If someone just gives up on the team when they suck they're a "fairweather fan".
If they are critical of the players/management when they suck, they're "bad fans".

Apparently we all need to be Koolaid drinking zealots.

I didnt say anything about having to like the team. I questioned the logic of voluntarily subjecting oneself to something they clearly loath, despise and find zero joy in.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I didnt say anything about having to like the team. I questioned the logic of voluntarily subjecting oneself to something they clearly loath, despise and find zero joy in.

I don't blame the fans for being angry at the team being crap. I blame the team for being crap.

I fully understand that there's typically a cycle of a team being great, declining, then rebuilding. Fans should still stay loyal during those low points of course, and understand that it's part of the cycle. But the low parts of the cycle should only span a few years.

But the leafs low point has spanned almost 2 decades. Patience has LONG expired. Always losing in the first round isn't NEARLY good enough. Overpaid primadonnas showing NO effort isn't good enough. The team should be happy to have any fans at all at this point.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Everyone with half a clue knew the over payments were coming right after Willie won his battle. Then Matthews is given the world, I mean getting all bent out of shape about Marner, what did you actually expect? I called it at the time, he was getting double digits, the moment Dubas got scared about Matthews getting offer sheeted and subsequently over paid with no term. Marner gave up another year and less AAV, it sort of fits, not with the league salaries, but the internal precedent Dubas set. It’s fascinating to me how people can’t lay any blame with Dubas, yet have this critical eye everywhere else, it’s just crap analysis to be honest. Dubas blew the big 3, period.

Apologists in 1, 2, 3.....

This might be true in terms of mishandling of the the three young guys deals, but in reality how much cap did he waste? Matthews probably got the change of the 11.634 over paid (better than Eichel, but Mcjesus is the ceiling) so 11 is in the middle, term isn’t ideal, but you kick the can down the road and deal with that when the time comes. Nylander should have probably come in at 6.5, so that’s 496k over. Marner is the spicy meatball. He got way over his comparables and is probably overpaid by 1.393 as he should of come in around 9.5m.
in total that’s about 2.5m over what would of been seen as ideal contracts.
Go around the league and see how many teams have more than that in wasted money/overpays and come back and talk to us.
Also keep in mind these are overpays for elite talent, I’d rather have the four big guns locked in for 3m too much than be saddled with someone like Backes or Lucic or Seabrook. Granted that 2.5 is the difference between having a competent back up this season and a full roster of 23 instead of the skeleton roster we will be forced into carrying this season, but what everyone forgets is that a contract is an agreement between two parties and maybe just maybe all three guys wouldn’t of signed for anything less. There comes a point as a management team where you have to choose between getting your guys back in the lineup and holding a hard line.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Matthews was just as greedy. Nobody complains about that.

What? Everyone complains about Matthews' contract, even though it's way better than Marner's

 

[Nithoniniel]

Why should he be any different than the others?

He shouldn't. People really should stop crusading against individual players though. It's just toxic. Criticism is fine and warranted, but these boards are basically 80% over-the-top bickering about players we should just be elated to even have on the team.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Also keep in mind these are overpays for elite talent, I’d rather have the four big guns locked in for 3m too much than be saddled with someone like Backes or Lucic or Seabrook.

Yup. It's about perspective. Have these negotiations been well handled? Nope. But the degree to which it is a problem can't be compared to having a Lucic on your team, and almost every team in the league has something like that.

 

[The Podium]

This might be true in terms of mishandling of the the three young guys deals, but in reality how much cap did he waste? Matthews probably got the change of the 11.634 over paid (better than Eichel, but Mcjesus is the ceiling) so 11 is in the middle, term isn’t ideal, but you kick the can down the road and deal with that when the time comes. Nylander should have probably come in at 6.5, so that’s 496k over. Marner is the spicy meatball. He got way over his comparables and is probably overpaid by 1.393 as he should of come in around 9.5m.
in total that’s about 2.5m over what would of been seen as ideal contracts.
Go around the league and see how many teams have more than that in wasted money/overpays and come back and talk to us.
Also keep in mind these are overpays for elite talent, I’d rather have the four big guns locked in for 3m too much than be saddled with someone like Backes or Lucic or Seabrook. Granted that 2.5 is the difference between having a competent back up this season and a full roster of 23 instead of the skeleton roster we will be forced into carrying this season, but what everyone forgets is that a contract is an agreement between two parties and maybe just maybe all three guys wouldn’t of signed for anything less. There comes a point as a management team where you have to choose between getting your guys back in the lineup and holding a hard line.

Exactly this, they are overpaid by a cumulative 3 mill at most and I rather have my best players overpaid then have an immovable deadweight contract. For example, sure Boston has Pastrnak, Marchand and Bergeron signed to 6-7 mill each, but then you consider Backes is warming the bench at 6 mill and their cumulative salaries are effectively 8-9 mill each.

 

[The Podium]

He shouldn't. People really should stop crusading against individual players though. It's just toxic. Criticism is fine and warranted, but these boards are basically 80% over-the-top bickering about players we should just be elated to even have on the team.

It is also funny how fast perspectives change. Kadri was the devil, Marner was king and now that Kadri's gone and Marner is paid the opposite is true.

The most bipolar fanbase by far.

 

[Nithoniniel]

These boards turning on Marner like they have with Nylander has just sucked the fun out of coming here for me. For all the contract negotiations, flaws, and part they play in systemic issues, I still love these boys just as I love the team.

I'm not here as much anymore. I do come on to read and write a few posts at times. When I do, I keep wondering when we stopped just being fans discussing hockey? When did this place become a place where everybody is crusading against the thing they hate with the team? Passion doesn't need to be toxic. Fandom doesn't need to be defined by it's worst quality.

I'm pretty sure Marner being $1M+ overpaid has ruined some people's ability to enjoy watching the Leafs. How sad is that?

 

[ACC1224]

These boards turning on Marner like they have with Nylander has just sucked the fun out of coming here for me. For all the contract negotiations, flaws, and part they play in systemic issues, I still love these boys just as I love the team.

I'm not here as much anymore. I do come on to read and write a few posts at times. When I do, I keep wondering when we stopped just being fans discussing hockey? When did this place become a place where everybody is crusading against the thing they hate with the team? Passion doesn't need to be toxic. Fandom doesn't need to be defined by it's worst quality.

I'm pretty sure Marner being $1M+ overpaid has ruined some people's ability to enjoy watching the Leafs. How sad is that?

Yep, there are many that just need to move on.
Mitch scored a beauty Saturday, looking forward to more of that.

 

[Zybalto]

These boards turning on Marner like they have with Nylander has just sucked the fun out of coming here for me. For all the contract negotiations, flaws, and part they play in systemic issues, I still love these boys just as I love the team.

I'm not here as much anymore. I do come on to read and write a few posts at times. When I do, I keep wondering when we stopped just being fans discussing hockey? When did this place become a place where everybody is crusading against the thing they hate with the team? Passion doesn't need to be toxic. Fandom doesn't need to be defined by it's worst quality.

I'm pretty sure Marner being $1M+ overpaid has ruined some people's ability to enjoy watching the Leafs. How sad is that?

I remember a few times I was attacked as basically an optimist during their mid-season slump last year because I dared to point out the good things on the team. What does it mean to be a fan if you cant at least defend your team? Strange times.

 

[Trapper]

These boards turning on Marner like they have with Nylander has just sucked the fun out of coming here for me. For all the contract negotiations, flaws, and part they play in systemic issues, I still love these boys just as I love the team.

I'm not here as much anymore. I do come on to read and write a few posts at times. When I do, I keep wondering when we stopped just being fans discussing hockey? When did this place become a place where everybody is crusading against the thing they hate with the team? Passion doesn't need to be toxic. Fandom doesn't need to be defined by it's worst quality.

I'm pretty sure Marner being $1M+ overpaid has ruined some people's ability to enjoy watching the Leafs. How sad is that?

Sometimes a product is constructed to make it that way.
I remember watching the Gilmour/Clark team that never won a Cup but I felt every loss and felt losing in the playoffs as much as they did.

Today, not so much. What do you do when you don't like the style you are seeing? The way the team is built. I mean passion is one thing, but what do you do when you find yourself in a relationship where there is no passion. For those of us that like to see a certain style, it's difficult to just say I enjoy this. Passion doesn't need to be toxic ok, but for many there appears to be none. Problem.
Everyone processes things differently and for all those who love certain players, certain styles, we can't just expect everyone to love it. If I don't expect you to love physical aggressive hockey, how can you expect others not too? The arguments become love it this way. But not all do.

 

[Gallagbi]

Sometimes a product is constructed to make it that way.
I remember watching the Gilmour/Clark team that never won a Cup but I felt every loss and felt losing in the playoffs as much as they did.

Today, not so much. What do you do when you don't like the style you are seeing? The way the team is built. I mean passion is one thing, but what do you do when you find yourself in a relationship where there is no passion. For those of us that like to see a certain style, it's difficult to just say I enjoy this. Passion doesn't need to be toxic ok, but for many there appears to be none. Problem.
Everyone processes things differently and for all those who love certain players, certain styles, we can't just expect everyone to love it. If I don't expect you to love physical aggressive hockey, how can you expect others not too? The arguments become love it this way. But not all do.

It's less about style and more about effort to me. This team has gone through the motions for roughly a year now.

They don't have to play any specific style, they simply need to care.

 

[Trapper]

It's less about style and more about effort to me. This team has gone through the motions for roughly a year now.

They don't have to play any specific style, they simply need to care.

And if that is important to you (to me as well) that is valid and personal.
And when you don't see it, you can't just be happy, happy, joy, joy.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

When Tavares and Hyman get back Mitch will be magic Mitch again and all will be forgotten. I think most of us are sick of the constant talk of contracts. The boys try to get as much as they can. So be it.

 

[TheShape]

Exactly this, they are overpaid by a cumulative 3 mill at most and I rather have my best players overpaid then have an immovable deadweight contract. For example, sure Boston has Pastrnak, Marchand and Bergeron signed to 6-7 mill each, but then you consider Backes is warming the bench at 6 mill and their cumulative salaries are effectively 8-9 mill each.

Agreed. 6m anchor in Backes plus another combined 4m on Beleskey and Seidenberg contracts. 10 million in dead cap space.

Every team has these sort of contracts they can’t wait to get off the books.

 

[Zybalto]

When Tavares and Hyman get back Mitch will be magic Mitch again and all will be forgotten. I think most of us are sick of the constant talk of contracts. The boys try to get as much as they can. So be it.

Imagine what Magic Mitch will be like when he's currently on a 90+ point pace again and he "sucks"!

 

[GoonieFace]

These boards turning on Marner like they have with Nylander has just sucked the fun out of coming here for me. For all the contract negotiations, flaws, and part they play in systemic issues, I still love these boys just as I love the team.

I'm not here as much anymore. I do come on to read and write a few posts at times. When I do, I keep wondering when we stopped just being fans discussing hockey? When did this place become a place where everybody is crusading against the thing they hate with the team? Passion doesn't need to be toxic. Fandom doesn't need to be defined by it's worst quality.

I'm pretty sure Marner being $1M+ overpaid has ruined some people's ability to enjoy watching the Leafs. How sad is that?

Nice post, have to agree. The only argument I can make is that people pay alot of money to watch these guys play, and if they are dogging it, I guess that can be frustrating.

 

[Trapper]

Nice post, have to agree. The only argument I can make is that people pay alot of money to watch these guys play, and if they are dogging it, I guess that can be frustrating.

This is a large fanbase full of diversity.
Ages can range 30/40 years between.
If you like the Dubas way, so be it.
You also can dislike it.

 

[Pilky01]

When Tavares and Hyman get back Mitch will be magic Mitch again and all will be forgotten. I think most of us are sick of the constant talk of contracts. The boys try to get as much as they can. So be it.

Our $11M man needs an elite centre as well as another good, physical player on the wing in order for him to produce and succeed.

Franchise player material right there.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Our $11M man needs an elite centre as well as another good, physical player on the wing in order for him to produce and succeed.

Franchise player material right there.

So so true. Again not Mitch's fault. The Leafs did not have to pay him 11M they chose too.

 

[Leafsfan13]

Our $11M man needs an elite centre as well as another good, physical player on the wing in order for him to produce and succeed.

Franchise player material right there.

Currently on a 93p pace without Tavares. unless you consider kerfoot elite?