Misdirected blame?

[ryz]

How about giving the players stock options in the team. Which would change the teams reporting requirements. I thikn the players already proposed it. They could even get a share of the capital gains when one owner sold the team to a new owner. Just like a partner

Would they help buy the team then too? The Ducks were just bought for about $70 million, but I didn't see Steve Ruchin or JS Giguere's names on any of those cheques.

 

[mooseOAK*]

I used 26 as an example because thats about what the NFL is, and we're talking in hypotheticals. Instead of arguing about picayune stuff, why not answer the question. Why would a cap allow small market teams to keep their players if UFA age is 29 or 30 but not if its 24 or 25 or 26?

The extra 3-6 years that all other teams have to create cap space to sign your players away from you? The richest teams are in bad cap shape now but that isn't going to be for long once the big contracts run in 2-3 years.

I just don't know why you and Messenger are making such a big deal about shaply reduced UFA ages when the players haven't even asked for it.

 

[mooseOAK*]

I just wonder if he's in favor of sharing 40% of all ticket revenue. After all it's meaningless in his own words.

It's 1/3 based on what I read and gets put into a big pool and split 30 ways. No one really loses or gains much under that scenario.

I'm all for some revenue sharing but there are two sides to it.

One, is that a team like Toronto makes a large profit and that is because they belong to the NHL so they do owe something to keep the league healthy. They couldn't make that money all alone.

On the other hand, the owners of the Leafs paid far more for their team than the smaller market owners paid for theirs so they deserve to keep most of the profits.

 

[hockeytown9321]

The extra 3-6 years that all other teams have to create cap space to sign your players away from you? The richest teams are in bad cap shape now but that isn't going to be for long once the big contracts run in 2-3 years.

I just don't know why you and Messenger are making such a big deal about shaply reduced UFA ages when the players haven't even asked for it.

So teams being in a bad cap position now makes them more likely to sign a small market player away? Thats kinda counter-intuitive, no? Regardless, the cap is supposed to make it so those small market teams can keep their players. I don't see why it would only work if UFA age is kept high. Either it works or it doesn't.

I'm not making a big deal about it, I just needed my question answered becuase it didn't jive with why alot of people here support the cap. I would prefer if the UFA was kept high because I have confidence in my team's drafting and I see what happens in football. I don't think a cap does what everybody seems to think it does, whether UFA's are 18 or 32.

 

[AM]

cap wise.....

So teams being in a bad cap position now makes them more likely to sign a small market player away? Thats kinda counter-intuitive, no? Regardless, the cap is supposed to make it so those small market teams can keep their players. I don't see why it would only work if UFA age is kept high. Either it works or it doesn't.

I'm not making a big deal about it, I just needed my question answered becuase it didn't jive with why alot of people here support the cap. I would prefer if the UFA was kept high because I have confidence in my team's drafting and I see what happens in football. I don't think a cap does what everybody seems to think it does, whether UFA's are 18 or 32.

It dosnt matter.

Realistically, hockey players dont mature till late in the UFA game.

If you make it small enough, you provide a disincentive to teams developing players.

 

[hockeytown9321]

It dosnt matter.

Realistically, hockey players dont mature till late in the UFA game.

If you make it small enough, you provide a disincentive to teams developing players.

How? If there's a cap, the small market teams can resign their players, right? Isn't that why so many here wanted the cap? Like I said, the cap either accomplishes this or it doesn't. UFA age is irrelevent.

 

[mooseOAK*]

How? If there's a cap, the small market teams can resign their players, right? Isn't that why so many here wanted the cap? Like I said, the cap either accomplishes this or it doesn't. UFA age is irrelevent.

Well, you could ask the people who run the NBA and NBAPA why their league went from UFA after the rookie contract expired to a team option and then RFA status after that. Fans were sick of watching young players play badly then leave before they got good.

 

[hockeytown9321]

Well, you could ask the people who run the NBA and NBAPA why their league went from UFA after the rookie contract expired to a team option and then RFA status after that. Fans were sick of watching young players play badly then leave before they got good.

We're not talking about the NBA.

Very simple question: Does a hard salary cap, like has been proposed by both the NHL and NHLPA allow small market teams a better chance to hang onto their players when they become free agents? If it does, then age is not a factor. If it doesn't, you might want to re-assess your support of Bettman.

 

[mooseOAK*]

We're not talking about the NBA.

Well, obviously, because they saw that giving a 23 year old UFA status was bad for the league and changed their CBA because of it and that goes contrary to your opinion.

 

[snakepliskin]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=2026246 pretty good article from a guy that has been pretty neutral during this train werck

 

[signalIInoise]

Flawed analogy. The problem with the cba wasn't necessarily the truly elite players getting paid their due. It was the pluggers and grinders salaries that began creeping up. Players were no longer being payed for the 'job they did,' they were being payed for comparables and a system which inherently escalted them.

(emphasis mine)

Inherently? How so? Jeremy Jacobs didn't have to make the Lapointe signing, but he did. Why? He was being a dick. The Holik signing? More dickery. Karmanos signed and Illitch matched that ridiculous offer for Federov ... why? Because the CBA made it inherently so? That's a crock, and you know it. Truth of the matter is, at the time, the owners thought they were screwing each other ... and it doesn't matter what system is in place ... they'll do it again and again. These are (you'll have to excuse me) inherently egomaniacal men, who have shown that they'll never pass up an opportunity to stick it in each other. Yet, here you're blaming a system for the weakness of the men who exploit it for their own vanity.

The reason that the NHL has been failing as a business is simply because they have not run it as a business. They have run it as an ego-stroke, and nothing more. The NHL is a p*ssing contest for billionairres, nothing more.

I don't know about you... but there's no salary cap where I work, and I have yet to see a Bobby Holik-style paycheck. Maybe that's because my employers aren't quite as pound-foolish or have quite as much of a God complex as NHL ownership. (And if you had any clue who I worked for, this statement would stagger you).

For what it's worth, I'm not arguing that the system doesn't need fixing, but there is not a credible doubt in the world who got it here or who broke it so badly.

 

[me2]

How? If there's a cap, the small market teams can resign their players, right? Isn't that why so many here wanted the cap? Like I said, the cap either accomplishes this or it doesn't. UFA age is irrelevent.

Absolutely, just set the cap low enough that every team can reach it and make some money. Say $20m-25m?

 

[Sixty Six]

Link?

See thats your opinion. You have no proof behind your reasoning thats revenue sharing only works with TV contracts.

You cant tell me NHL teams cant split ticket revenue 50/50?

when someone says "i think" such as he did, that shows that is only his opinion, i'm glad you aren't a detective

 

[Hab-a-maniac]

<(And if you had any clue who I worked for, this statement would stagger you).>

You live in MD (Maryland)? May I guess the United States Federal Government?

 

[Timmy]

<(And if you had any clue who I worked for, this statement would stagger you).>

You live in MD (Maryland)? May I guess the United States Federal Government?

Now there's a franchise that's losing real money.

 

[signalIInoise]

I'm not saying. Suffice to say politics are involved, yes.

 

[thinkwild]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=2026246 pretty good article from a guy that has been pretty neutral during this train werck

He makes a good point

If everyone is in line, walking in one step, speaking with one voice, then such heavy-handed measures wouldn't be necessary. Right?

Only a bully would suggest otherwise.

The owners gag order must demonstrate desperation, heavy handedness, and their moral bankruptcy. These poor owners just want to reopen their business with scabs to feed their family. They have a right to speak of their interests, wherever their interests take them.

Only a bully would suggest otherwise.

 

[hockeytown9321]

Well, obviously, because they saw that giving a 23 year old UFA status was bad for the league and changed their CBA because of it and that goes contrary to your opinion.

They've also never had a hard cap

 

[hockeytown9321]

Absolutely, just set the cap low enough that every team can reach it and make some money. Say $20m-25m?

So the $37M or whatever cap proposed by the NHL won't work?

 

[eye]

So the $37M or whatever cap proposed by the NHL won't work?

If the owners really had their way the cap would be 25 mil with lower ticket pricing. Consider the 37.5 offer generous under the current circumstances. Most fans are bitter and many will go to less games when the NHL resumes than they did previously. Many season ticket holders will not renew until they see value for their $$$$'s. Many casual fans won't even show up until the league gets it's act in order. Sure Detroit and Toronto might be imune but the rest of the league will have to work it's butt off to regain the fans loyalty. Fans tend to look at players differently after what we have been though. To be paid back for all our financial and emotional support the way we have been is a slap in the face and you know what happens when someone slugs you. You remain bitter or slug back. Much work is left and I just hope the NHL can recover.