Miscellaneous NHL Discussion LIX: Great Expectations by Charles Dickens and oh the #13 Lottery Pick

[FatTugboatFlahr]

There is no "leaving the feet requirement" for charging.

Just read the rulebook. Not that hard. I even posted a direct screenshot from it.

Yes and it's the most vague rule in history; it's basically just hitting someone hard on the ice.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

You're not supposed to fly the length of the ice to level someone. Pretty simple

 

[Rebels57]

Yes and it's the most vague rule in history; it's basically just hitting someone hard on the ice.

Its not vague. You cant fly down the ice at top speed to deliver a violent hit. Not that complicated and prevents extremely bad outcomes like tonight from being regular occurences.

 

[Angry Hockey Dad]

Landeskog cross checked in the mouth after a faceoff, Bleeding. No call. Classic

 

[GapToothedWonder]

This really is going to put the NHL in a pretty tough spot. The hit was completely unnecessary and shouldn’t have been made but... I don’t know where it falls in the rule book as a violation.

Parros is shitting himself right now.

That's how I feel, total douchbag move, and MS is an asshole. Not sure exactly where this is way outside the rules. I can understand calling it a charge and giving him a major. But his feet weren't moving, he doesn't jump, he was skating back hard but as part of a backcheck, he catch Evans a little high but that's mainly how Evans is standing, the puck had barely left his stick.

You could maybe say intent to injure? But hard to suspend a guy many playoff games when he can easily argue his intent was to stop the goal. I dunno weird play in that there should be a clear rule preventing something like this. I just don't know if there really is one in the book right now.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Doesnt matter what the reason is. He wasnt eligible to hit him at that point. He should have been making a play on the puck.

Do you mean he wasn't eligible because the puck was already off his stick?

 

[Magua]

That PP just isn't fair. The top of the umbrella is too dynamic and quick breaking down solo checkers; all 5 guys have a purpose and space well; it's too precise. It allows me, if only momentarily, to pretend the Flyers bastardized PP doesn't exist.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

There is no "leaving the feet requirement" for charging.

Just read the rulebook. Not that hard. I even posted a direct screenshot from it.

The unfortunate reality is that the rule book is pretty vague when it comes to the charging ruling and gives the NHL lots of wiggle room.

You can point to that definition but you and somebody else can both read that definition and come to different conclusions from it.

That's what you are seeing playout in this thread right now,

 

[deadhead]

Yes, if we could just replace Ghost with Makar, and Voracek with Rantanen, I'm sure our PP would look a lot better.

 

[Magua]

Voracek was 8th in the NHL from 2012-2019 in PP points. Ghost has the 2nd highest PP point season since he entered the league and was 6th in the NHL from 2015-2019. Fun fact: he led NHL defensemen in goals/60 this season too (>100 min).

They are not Rantanen or Makar in their primes, but surely we -- and by "we" I mean all multi-cell organisms and select single cell ones -- are all above white knighting for Therrien, yes? These are not credential-less players. Even Giroux was sunk by it. Swing and a miss.

 

[CutOnDime97]

Yes, if we could just replace Ghost with Makar, and Voracek with Rantanen, I'm sure our PP would look a lot better.

Maybe don't give Kevin Hayes PP ice time over Giroux and let Ghost be the #1 PP QB over Provorov.

 

[TheKingPin]

Personal jab here.

Evans if he will need an ICU (unlikely) - will have a shot at needing to be flown out to Ontario or Alberta/Saskatchewan.

Only province in Canada to have to send out patients because the complete sack of shit in charge decided to cut services and critical care beds to save money pre pandemic.

Nursing going on strike here in next few weeks. Was that a crazy rant? You betcha.

That is nuts! Hopefully you guys figure stuff out there.

That PP just isn't fair. The top of the umbrella is too dynamic and quick breaking down solo checkers; all 5 guys have a purpose and space well; it's too precise. It allows me, if only momentarily, to pretend the Flyers bastardized PP doesn't exist.

Their PP is my favorite thing about them. It’s elegant.

 

[Psuhockey]

Yes, if we could just replace Ghost with Makar, and Voracek with Rantanen, I'm sure our PP would look a lot better.

But high draft picks don’t matter

 

[WIP CALLER]

Just heard Evans has a history with head injuries too. Awful.

Totally shocked when he skates around with his head down like that. Just like it was no surprise Lindros had a history of head injuries. Generally when you don't protect yourself in the open ice, you leave yourself open to hits like that. I'm in favor of take hitting out of the game at this point just so we no longer have to read the babies act like it's the most horrific thing they've ever saw and how much they need therapy after every big hit. That hit wouldn't have been a big deal at all if Evans has any common sense to protect himself.

 

[deadhead]

Voracek was 8th in the NHL from 2012-2019 in PP points. Ghost has the 2nd highest PP point season since he entered the league and was 6th in the NHL from 2015-2019. Fun fact: he led NHL defensemen in goals/60 this season too (>100 min).

They are not Rantanen or Makar in their primes, but surely we -- and by "we" I mean all multi-cell organisms and select single cell ones -- are all above white knighting for Therrien, yes? These are not credential-less players. Even Giroux was sunk by it. Swing and a miss.

"Was" is the operative word. There's this thing called "age" and this thing called "film."

I'm not white knighting for Therrien, but some things are obvious, teams are more aggressive against Ghost at the blue line (and if the puck is turned over, he lacks the speed to catch up) and no one fears Voracek shooting so they overplay the passing lanes. Doesn't mean they're useless, but they're not the same players they were last decade.

Ghost had a short stretch of unsustainable S%, when Laughton did, we had scores of posts pointing that out, but ignoring he was still scoring above a 30+ ES pace after you normalized his S%. Ghost's S% was 10.6% compared to his career average of 6.6%.

One of the nice aspects of watching Farabee is a forward with an accurate wrist shot who can score without three passes setting up an open net.
A top wrist shot >> slap shot. Watching the playoffs, I've seen so many slap shots get blocked or completely miss the net. There are a few players who are deadly with an open slap shot, but too many telegraph their shot and have no idea where it's going.

 

[Rebels57]

I see the Lindsay nominees are McDavid, Matthews and.... Crosby?

It's almost like the players picked McDavid and Matthews as obvious choices and then just wrote down other names of star players at random.

I'm actually curious to see how these votes played out.

Wait...Crosby over MacKinnon?!

 

[Rebels57]

Totally shocked when he skates around with his head down like that. Just like it was no surprise Lindros had a history of head injuries. Generally when you don't protect yourself in the open ice, you leave yourself open to hits like that. I'm in favor of take hitting out of the game at this point just so we no longer have to read the babies act like it's the most horrific thing they've ever saw and how much they need therapy after every big hit. That hit wouldn't have been a big deal at all if Evans has any common sense to protect himself.

Totally shocked that "WIP CALLER" has a take this embarassingly bad.

 

[BernieParent]

That's how I feel, total douchbag move, and MS is an asshole. Not sure exactly where this is way outside the rules. I can understand calling it a charge and giving him a major. But his feet weren't moving, he doesn't jump, he was skating back hard but as part of a backcheck, he catch Evans a little high but that's mainly how Evans is standing, the puck had barely left his stick.

You could maybe say intent to injure? But hard to suspend a guy many playoff games when he can easily argue his intent was to stop the goal. I dunno weird play in that there should be a clear rule preventing something like this. I just don't know if there really is one in the book right now.

Scheifele had two options as he was racing back to prevent Evans from putting the puck into the empty net: reach with his stick to block the wraparound or hit him before he could score. Giving Scheifele the benefit of the doubt -- which I don't, but let's be objective for a minute -- he chose to hit Evans, and by doing so he puts himself under scrutiny for a charging penalty because of the distance he traveled. Plus, it was crystal clear what Evans was going to do; it wasn't like Scheifele had a split second to identify that Evans had a chance to score. He was chugging up the ice with all this time to plan his response.

Objectively, the hit itself looks clean: no elbow, head not the principal point of contact, didn't leave his feet (I always think this is an absurd statement). But the ability to objectively pin a charging major on him opens the door wide open for Parros, at least in theory, to come down hard on Scheifele for what was blatantly obvious: he wanted to blow up Evans rather than prevent an EN goal in the last minute of the game.

 

[Tripod]

Except its not legal because its Charging.

If you're going to be so confident with your posts at least look in the rule book first.

View attachment 442531

watch the video again....he skates back hard...then COASTS from the hash marks until the hit happens.

In fact, if he doesn't stop hit strides at the hash marks, that extra stride puts him in a better position to stop the goal.

 

[Rebels57]

watch the video again....he skates back hard...then COASTS from the hash marks until the hit happens.

In fact, if he doesn't stop hit strides at the hash marks, that extra stride puts him in a better position to stop the goal.

That doesnt make it not charging.

 

[Tripod]

That doesnt make it not charging.

so almost every hit can be called a charge.

 

[Tripod]

What I am saying....will be Shceifele's defense.

I skated back hard because I was backchecking...done hundereds of times a game
I stopped my stride at the hash marks...ending any charge
I attempted to hit him before he could score
I kept him shoulder down
I did not jump
I hit him in the chest
I hit him within the legal time after the puck left his stick

But again, if he HAD done 1-2 more strides and only played the puck, he likely could have stopped that goal and met him more behind the net. Dumb decision.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Totally shocked when he skates around with his head down like that. Just like it was no surprise Lindros had a history of head injuries. Generally when you don't protect yourself in the open ice, you leave yourself open to hits like that. I'm in favor of take hitting out of the game at this point just so we no longer have to read the babies act like it's the most horrific thing they've ever saw and how much they need therapy after every big hit. That hit wouldn't have been a big deal at all if Evans has any common sense to protect himself.

Cringe take

 

[BernieParent]

so almost every hit can be called a charge.

For sure there is a huge grey area but that is on the refs to intuit when the player intends to be a hitter and not just a defender against a player with the puck. Think back to Wilson on Schenn. Schenn was relatively immobile as he fought near the boards for the puck, and Wilson made a beeline for him. Like I said above, Scheifele had all the time he was skating back to plan his strategy, especially as Evans followed the predictable pathway to scoring into the empty net.

Your point about the long glide is an interesting one that makes the charging penalty a bit greyer but, as you pointed out, also acts against a potential explanation that he was doing his utmost to prevent a goal.

 

[Tripod]

For sure there is a huge grey area but that is on the refs to intuit when the player intends to be a hitter and not just a defender against a player with the puck. Think back to Wilson on Schenn. Schenn was relatively immobile as he fought near the boards for the puck, and Wilson made a beeline for him. Like I said above, Scheifele had all the time he was skating back to plan his strategy, especially as Evans followed the predictable pathway to scoring into the empty net.

Your point about the long glide is an interesting one that makes the charging penalty a bit greyer but, as you pointed out, also acts against a potential explanation that he was doing his utmost to prevent a goal.

agree with everything here.